Update Details 9/6/07

[Paegan]

NERFNERFNERFNERF.

Read. It's not working properly. They're fixing it. Fixing something that isn't working properly is not a nerf, it was never intended to be that way. Gawd...

So then I guess the ranger nerf never existed, since ranged weapons were "not intended" to be the overwhelmingly superior source of damage in every situation? They really just fixed something that was not working as intended.

The RNG nerf occurred because people learnt, over a period of time, to exploit the ranged attack calculations to their maximum, and that unbalanced the game.

The current situation is the result of one botched update.

If you can't see the difference you're an idiot.

[divisortheory]

NERFNERFNERFNERF.

Read. It's not working properly. They're fixing it. Fixing something that isn't working properly is not a nerf, it was never intended to be that way. Gawd...

So then I guess the ranger nerf never existed, since ranged weapons were "not intended" to be the overwhelmingly superior source of damage in every situation? They really just fixed something that was not working as intended.

Be realistic, the 2H weapon changes have been in the game for 1 week. There's a difference between

a) designing the entire game a certain way, 3 years later making a dramatic change
and
b) designing the entire game a certain way, 5 years later making a dramatic change, 1 week later saying "oops my bad", then making another dramatic change.


The first one is a nerf, the second one isn't.

[Nameless]

Fortitude Axe is 504 delay. Not 300 something.

[Turambar]

Fortitude Axe is 504 delay. Not 300 something.

Depends how you look at it. 504 delay on paper, but when you factor in that it attacks 1.5 times per round, it's functionally equivalent to a 336 delay weapon with no special features.

[Khamsin]

Fortitude Axe is 504 delay. Not 300 something.

Depends how you look at it. 504 delay on paper, but when you factor in that it attacks 1.5 times per round, it's functionally equivalent to a 336 delay weapon with no special features.

And Store TP with the odd twist that it gives the monster more, instead of less, TP.

[Septimus]

One thing that I've always wondered, if a mob has no weapon at all, is that considered a 2H weapon, a 1H weapon, hand to hand, or none of the above?

Would depend on their job, no?

Are there any beastmen mobs that have no weapon, but aren't Monks?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Image:GiantHunter.JPG

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Image:Giantranger.jpg

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Image:Giant_Trapper.jpg

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Image:Giant_Gatekeeper.jpg

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Image:Giant-lobber.jpg

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Image:Giant_Sentry.jpg

[Kazen]

Then I guess that would make Joy sword more like a 80-100 delay and still not explaining why Fort axe does so much more. Lets see.. 64 vs 49 (axe) + 35 (joy sword) so a 64 damage weapon is hitting just as hard hit per hit as a 84 dmg setup. (lets say both proc once, axe for 100 joy for 80 thats 180 whereas the lesser damage g axe is hitting for 170-190 with 20 less dmg on it)

[mikazuki]

i think the stat loss on pets is approximately consistent with their subjob (WAR/WAR etc.) being accidentally removed, the other way to lower their stats would be to move them all down ranks which would be a far less likely mistake.

in regard to mobs with no weapon and no hth skill - various mamool after throwing their weapon in addition to those gigas. the mamool at least make attacks the same as pcs with no weapon or innate hth skill right?

the 2h update is part of a general trend of the game being made easier to compare more favorably with it's rivals, so get over it already those who haven't come to terms with it.

[Loziel]

We did COP Tenzen a short time after the update and his normal hits and WS were owning the shit out of everyone, Managed to beat him after 3 goes, but on two runs he 1 shotted our Sam with a WS, made light work of our pld with another, then 1 shotted me (rdm) with another WS to make Cosmic Elucidation. We were like, "wtf this got nerfed, he was on steroids."

[Spira]

Not sure why they omitted this, but the update is boosting not just automaton stats, but those of all Avatars, Wyverns and Beastmaster pets, which had also been inadvertently lowered.

wouldn't that be this line?

Ability statistics of Automatons and Pets are lower than intended

and im taking it that they are referring to pets in the same general term as /ignorepet, except that since automatons are machines, they don't qualify as literal pets so they said Automatons and Pets instead of just 'pets'...

sign.. the burden of language.

[Amele]

NERFNERFNERFNERF.

Read. It's not working properly. They're fixing it. Fixing something that isn't working properly is not a nerf, it was never intended to be that way. Gawd...

So then I guess the ranger nerf never existed, since ranged weapons were "not intended" to be the overwhelmingly superior source of damage in every situation? They really just fixed something that was not working as intended.

Be realistic, the 2H weapon changes have been in the game for 1 week. There's a difference between

a) designing the entire game a certain way, 3 years later making a dramatic change
and
b) designing the entire game a certain way, 5 years later making a dramatic change, 1 week later saying "oops my bad", then making another dramatic change.


The first one is a nerf, the second one isn't.

are we sure this change is even going to be that dramatic? (I mean, it might be; depends on what's wrong exactly with 2H pdif calculations - it's pretty clear that it was meant to slide higher than 1h though, or it should've broken in the same way.)

[Khamsin]

We did COP Tenzen a short time after the update and his normal hits and WS were owning the shit out of everyone, Managed to beat him after 3 goes, but on two runs he 1 shotted our Sam with a WS, made light work of our pld with another, then 1 shotted me (rdm) with another WS to make Cosmic Elucidation. We were like, "wtf this got nerfed, he was on steroids."

You make the battle sound so tough, but then say you fought the nerfed version and that he used to be on steroids. He must have been REALLY mean before the update! I just don't remember him being that bad when I did it.

[aurik]

They're boosting the power of tangerines.

[Turambar]

Then I guess that would make Joy sword more like a 80-100 delay and still not explaining why Fort axe does so much more. Lets see.. 64 vs 49 (axe) + 35 (joy sword) so a 64 damage weapon is hitting just as hard hit per hit as a 84 dmg setup. (lets say both proc once, axe for 100 joy for 80 thats 180 whereas the lesser damage g axe is hitting for 170-190 with 20 less dmg on it)

A) Joyeuse attacks 1.5 times per round; effective delay = 224 / 1.5 = 149.33.

B) 2 + 2 was never = 4 in this game. That's why 2hand weapons needed to be fixed. Also, I'm guessing your attack is considerably higher with G.axe than with axe/sword, so that probably accounts for a lot of the difference in damage.

[Kazen]

Other than the boost from str giving att, not overly, I can use meat while dual wielding.

[Loziel]

We did COP Tenzen a short time after the update and his normal hits and WS were owning the shit out of everyone, Managed to beat him after 3 goes, but on two runs he 1 shotted our Sam with a WS, made light work of our pld with another, then 1 shotted me (rdm) with another WS to make Cosmic Elucidation. We were like, "wtf this got nerfed, he was on steroids."

You make the battle sound so tough, but then say you fought the nerfed version and that he used to be on steroids. He must have been REALLY mean before the update! I just don't remember him being that bad when I did it.

I meant that he seemed like he was on steroids when we fought him, I never got to fight the un-nerfed version.
Im thinking it had something to do with this

Both the attack and accuracy of monsters equipped with two-handed weapons are higher than intended.

He didnt feel nerfed when we fought him. But then... we could just suck, lol

[Croaker]

- Amount of damage is not being corrected properly when characters are equipped with two-handed weapons.

- Both the attack and accuracy of monsters equipped with two-handed weapons are higher than intended.

SE makes these two statements. The first one is vague. The second one is specific.

Unless they intend to give players an advantage over the monsters, it is safe to assume that any reduction they apply to monsters wielding 2-handed weapons will also apply to players.

The way I interperet this, both STR=Attack and DEX=Accuracy are going to be modified to some value that is between 2.0 and 1.0 for both players and monsters.

[Sargas]

i think the stat loss on pets is approximately consistent with their subjob (WAR/WAR etc.) being accidentally removed, the other way to lower their stats would be to move them all down ranks which would be a far less likely mistake.

Except thst jug pets are already missing their subjob, so that couldn't have happened to them. I really need to do a max HP test of funguar and CC though, to see if that has been lowered, since I have some pre-patch numbers to compare with.

[solsovly]

Yay, I was already happy with Lars + Chucky being more readily available and their performance in merits. Can't wait to test them post update.

[Sekkite]

This better not nerf DRK or DRG or great axe WAR too badly . The only real job that was outshining all the others like crazy was SAM.