Update Details 9/6/07

[NynJa]

they should have just made weapon D play a greater role in the damage formula :\

[Septimus]

Not sure why they omitted this, but the update is boosting not just automaton stats, but those of all Avatars, Wyverns and Beastmaster pets, which had also been inadvertently lowered.

wouldn't that be this line?

Ability statistics of Automatons and Pets are lower than intended

and im taking it that they are referring to pets in the same general term as /ignorepet, except that since automatons are machines, they don't qualify as literal pets so they said Automatons and Pets instead of just 'pets'...

sign.. the burden of language.

That line is amazingly vague. Using your logic, an avatar should not be considered a pet since it is the manifestation of the power of a god.

It does not make sense to list every type of pet in the update changes for one language but use a specific and vague term in another. Either list all of the pets, or lump them together under the same generic category for every language.

P.S. Do not attempt to own Elmer, then comment on "the burden of language" when you cannot capitalize or use contractions properly; especially when you mistype "sigh" while commenting on said burdens of language.

[Necrosis]

- Amount of damage is not being corrected properly when characters are equipped with two-handed weapons.

- Both the attack and accuracy of monsters equipped with two-handed weapons are higher than intended.

SE makes these two statements. The first one is vague. The second one is specific.

Unless they intend to give players an advantage over the monsters, it is safe to assume that any reduction they apply to monsters wielding 2-handed weapons will also apply to players.

The way I interperet this, both STR=Attack and DEX=Accuracy are going to be modified to some value that is between 2.0 and 1.0 for both players and monsters.

The second statement applies to monsters (obviously), and it doesn't appear to be referring to players at all. Between the two statements, the only one that is regarding players is the first, and that's just damage, not attack or accuracy.

[Alistaire]

- Amount of damage is not being corrected properly when characters are equipped with two-handed weapons.

- Both the attack and accuracy of monsters equipped with two-handed weapons are higher than intended.

SE makes these two statements. The first one is vague. The second one is specific.

Unless they intend to give players an advantage over the monsters, it is safe to assume that any reduction they apply to monsters wielding 2-handed weapons will also apply to players.

The way I interperet this, both STR=Attack and DEX=Accuracy are going to be modified to some value that is between 2.0 and 1.0 for both players and monsters.

It doesn't have to be the same fix for mobs and pc's. 2h mobs were designed with their own stats, delay, etc. to be balanced while still retaining varying levels of difficulty vs parties of 6-18 depending on their situation. Tenzen is a perfect example: a unique mob using a 2h weapon that was designed to hit hard and be fairly strong in the offensive department (just not strong defensively making it easy overall). But the 2h boost to pc's applied to him made his offense so high that it became too strong of a defense too as he could kill pc's a lot easier. That's not the same at all as considering how to balance the damage output of a lvl 75 player fighting lvl 80-95 mobs, some of which with very high amounts of defensive stats.

[Julian]

I am glad that they specified more of the information on the fixes they are doing.

And the Pokemon people will be getting their Pankration a day early.

No they aren't <.< September 11th in Japan has always been September 10th in the US.

[UnwittingInsomniac]

I've been thinking for a while actually, that it's possible that they meant to make STR/DEX=ATK/DEF only on weaponskills... boosting the inherent damage and accuracy of 2-handed WS's (which rather needed it compared to the likes of spampage, Jin, AFists, etc), and they mucked it up and made it apply to all hits with a 2-hander. Of course, there's still the matter of the raw calculations being mangled... just wish they'd actually tell us what they meant to do and what they fucked up on in somewhat more definitive terms.

I know, I must enjoy being dissapointed or something.

[thestalkmore]

wooohoooo

[theo]

- All random number calculations for damage amounts are not being calculated properly.

Not sure why but I found this line incredibly amusing. They didn't just fuck up some of the random number calculations, or a few of the random number calculations. No, they fucked up the whole damn world of random number calculations from top to bottom.

I guess if you're gonna make a mess of things you may as well go for the gold amirite?

[Spider-Dan]

NERFNERFNERFNERF.

Read. It's not working properly. They're fixing it. Fixing something that isn't working properly is not a nerf, it was never intended to be that way. Gawd...

So then I guess the ranger nerf never existed, since ranged weapons were "not intended" to be the overwhelmingly superior source of damage in every situation? They really just fixed something that was not working as intended.

The RNG nerf occurred because people learnt, over a period of time, to exploit the ranged attack calculations to their maximum, and that unbalanced the game.

The current situation is the result of one botched update.

If you can't see the difference you're an idiot.

The point is, you can't just say "they are fixing something that is not working as intended" because intentions change. Even in a short period of time, they can examine the results and say, "oh, we didn't want this to happen..." (e.g. when they removed Pallas' ability to charm shortly after the force spawn update).

[Gere]

[quote=Spider-Dan]

NERFNERFNERFNERF.

Read. It's not working properly. They're fixing it. Fixing something that isn't working properly is not a nerf, it was never intended to be that way. Gawd...

So then I guess the ranger nerf never existed, since ranged weapons were "not intended" to be the overwhelmingly superior source of damage in every situation? They really just fixed something that was not working as intended.

The RNG nerf occurred because people learnt, over a period of time, to exploit the ranged attack calculations to their maximum, and that unbalanced the game.

The current situation is the result of one botched update.

If you can't see the difference you're an idiot.

The point is, you can't just say "they are fixing something that is not working as intended" because intentions change. Even in a short period of time, they can examine the results and say, "oh, we didn't want this to happen..." (e.g. when they removed Pallas' ability to charm shortly after the force spawn update).[/quote:c22fa]
Mistake in design != mistake in implementation.

[Croaker]

- Amount of damage is not being corrected properly when characters are equipped with two-handed weapons.

- Both the attack and accuracy of monsters equipped with two-handed weapons are higher than intended.

SE makes these two statements. The first one is vague. The second one is specific.

Unless they intend to give players an advantage over the monsters, it is safe to assume that any reduction they apply to monsters wielding 2-handed weapons will also apply to players.

The way I interperet this, both STR=Attack and DEX=Accuracy are going to be modified to some value that is between 2.0 and 1.0 for both players and monsters.

It doesn't have to be the same fix for mobs and pc's. 2h mobs were designed with their own stats, delay, etc. to be balanced while still retaining varying levels of difficulty vs parties of 6-18 depending on their situation. Tenzen is a perfect example: a unique mob using a 2h weapon that was designed to hit hard and be fairly strong in the offensive department (just not strong defensively making it easy overall). But the 2h boost to pc's applied to him made his offense so high that it became too strong of a defense too as he could kill pc's a lot easier. That's not the same at all as considering how to balance the damage output of a lvl 75 player fighting lvl 80-95 mobs, some of which with very high amounts of defensive stats.

The patch was intended to change the way 2-hand weapon damage is calculated for players.

If that change also effected monster 2-hand damage, then they must share the same calculations on some level. It seems strange that the fix for both wouldnt be related in some way.

I had always assumed that mobs like Tenzen used the same damage calculations, but just had greatly exagerated stats or a unique weapon with low delay and high damage.

[Max™]

For the love of god people.

Dex=Acc, Str=Att is not as broken as it seems.

Samurai WSes are broken at the moment (mainly the whole Double Attack sharing the initial FTP it seems) but that doesn't mean they're getting a nerf.

General 1h and 2h damage calculation is clearly broken, everyone has weird damage caps that we've never experienced before, weird ass level correction issues, and the inability to crit in certain situations for 2h jobs kind of suggest what the update will be about.

If you got 1 Att for 1 Str at lvl 73, 1.5 at 74, and .75 at 75 randomly, with comparitive (or totally different) Acc amounts, then that would clearly seem to be a mistake.

Instead that is a simple change that was worked in, which is the most obvious issue for people to bitch about, when as has been said many times by many very mathematically inclined people, it is the entire combination of mistakes and intended changes that make things as broken as they are now.

You seriously think they are going to fix the pDif issues, then roll back the Str/Dex changes, and just put the status quo back where it was before?

That's like handing a guy the keys to a Ferrari for a week, then coming back and giving him his old Ford Tempo back.

"Sorry, rental mistake."

[Nagamaki]

Double attacks DO NOT share initial fTP. Pre-patch or post-patch, this is not the case at all, based on my own SAM levelling and what everyone posted about average YGK damage with/without DA.

[Max™]

I said (...it seems) as I don't have Sam leveled.

I just know that when Sam WSes Double right now, things are getting absurd.

[MNKing]

I just hope this update does not bring forth more problems than there is. Not everyone will be happy, but if a majority is satisfied with the update, then it's all good.

[Ganzar]

I said (...it seems) as I don't have Sam leveled.

I just know that when Sam WSes Double right now, things are getting absurd.

If you don't know then don't speak.

When we double attack the damage of the WS does not double.

[thestalkmore]

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[Khrno]

I said (...it seems) as I don't have Sam leveled.

I just know that when Sam WSes Double right now, things are getting absurd.

If you don't know then don't speak.

When we double attack the damage of the WS does not double.

That's true, in the case of an Algol DRK with Brutal say for example:

- Spinning Slash (normal 1 hit): 1200
- SS (with Double Attack): 1700
- SS (with Triple Attack): 2200

I have noticed a 500~ dmg increase for every extra hit on SS, if it was doubled damage then it would be something like 2400 with DA and 3600 with TA.

[BRP]

I think STR and DEX conversions are only broken when you include base stats. Well the DEX=Acc thing is anyway.

Hmm, I can only wonder what this will result in.

[Tajin]

wtf TSM, -.- 4 pics were enough to get the message across