Strategies to Defeat AV (All Theories/Ideas Here)

[Mahman]

So I read ... OMG wtf Ashira has her own icon lol :ashira: famous!! anyway i was reading this entire thread and I just have a question maybe more will come of it but I doubt it.

It was said that a certain LS, uses NIN's to hold 2 sharks from JoL summons, so JoL only spawns 1 shark which the melees just kill. Question is, is it possible to hold a 1 shark, 1 xzommit, and a dolphin? (just came back to the game, don't remember the names of the mobs) I doubt it would do anything, but hell no one said it yet, at least I didn't read anyone doing this yet. Just wanna know if it's possible.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that as a strategy to fight JoL or a way to weaken AV. If it was for JoL then it isnt a good idea, you'll hold 1 hpmede and it will still summon 3 xzomits then 3 sharks, kinda too much for a small add pt. if you meant it was to weaken AV then i really doubt it, those adds die when JoL does.

I really doubt SE would make you need to kill or hold an unclaimed a mob in the zone. anyone can claim those and hold them, would be stupid if an alliance killing AV got screwed over by a random exp/farming party (not that anyone exps there)

First, SE does "make" you do this when you fight JoL. Unless you can zerg JoL and not have to worry about his adds, you are going to end up holding some monsters while you fight JoL. And if you can zerg him like that, congrats, but I don't think most linkshells can, and everyone should know what I mean when I say that you have to hold sharks.

Second, I agree it's dumb but you sort of miss my point. I'm not saying you are holding an unclaimed mob or killing a mob, I'm saying you are claiming the mobs and holding them (alive) in the same alliance as AV. The reason I say this, and I say a shark, a fish and a squid is because SE has said crap about the mobs around AV, AND because JoL spawns these mobs.

Everyone has beaten the aerns to death, but I don't really remember anyone talking about bringing the other organ-bearing mobs into the picture. My thought is that just killing them would be useless (maybe i'm wrong), but you'd have to keep them claimed in the alliance fighting AV. I only thought of that because I've had to sit there and hold a shark for an hour on ninja while fighting JoL.

Hope that clears up what I meant, even if it is a sort of a dumb concept, I dunno that it's been explicitly tried. And if it has been tried, then WHOOPS!!

And I haven't tried any of this, it's just an idea. We aren't really willing to mess with AV until something solid comes around.

point is killing/holding JoL's or AV's own summons is different from killing/holding a mob on the other side of the zone.

Different yes, but just to make a distinction, I am not talking about holding them on the other side of the zone. I'm talking about bringing these three types of mobs and holding them claimed in the same alliance that has the claim on Absolute Virtue. It's fairly obvious that if an outside alliance was holding them, or if you were holding them on the other side of the zone, there would be no effect. But potential may or may not exist if the same alliance has claim on the following mobs in reasonable proximity to Absolute Virtue:

1) Phuabo
2) Hpemde
3) Xzomit

These are the corresponding mob types that drop the virtues needed to spawn JoL and they are consistent with the "monsters around AV" hint (if you can call it a hint) that has been given to the player base.

Now that everyone hopefully understand exactly what I meant, let me know if anyone has actually tried it or is able to try it. Or people might just want to wait until SE tells us how to do it. Wouldn't it be funny if these mobs intimidated AV? I'm sure it wouldn't go that far if this were the actual method, but we would all surely LOL!

[ByeByeTasai]

what about the Aerns though, SE specifically stated "'Aern" as an example.

[ByeByeTasai]

Just did a little experimenting and testing while we were gathering for JoL today. It's well known that the 3 Aerns at JoL pop site can change jobs when they re-spawn, but the other 15 on that side might not. I only tested on about 5 of them before we had to pop and my fun was over. 3 on the island near JoL island are BRD, DRK, and WHM. then 2 of the 3 that roam that whole area are WAR and DRG. They all re-popped as the same job as well. Now I'm kind of curious if the 15 on that side of sea other then the 3 at JoL ??? might all be a different job. AV has access to 15 2hrs, 18 Aerns in total on that side - the 3 at ??? that change jobs. Anyway no real tests have been done by me except killing those 5 twice to see if they re-popped as same jobs. A few buddies are gonna go with me this weekend to kill all the Aerns on that side of the map several times and see if this might be the case. also seems to be 12 Xzomits(the ones on this side are all solo), 12ish phaubos and 18ish Hpemdes, all Om' of course. Dolphins and Sharks are hard to count since they are all under water untill aggro. Anyway we are gonna start doing simple tests of all the common monsters on the JoL side of sea and see if we can come up with any good data this weekend.

Novio and Novia dropped!!!!

edit: Ran through sea as a low lvl job and voked all the Aerns reraising each time I died and found that all 15 north of JoL island where a separate job, and created a map of where each Aern was. Hopefully tomorrow or the next day I can get a party up there with me to farm Aern organs and we'll kill all of them several times, and check to see if they change jobs, and if they do change jobs, make sure that 2 can't have the same job.

edit #2:
Another quick note, the reason I think it has to do with Aerns and Aerns alone is their hint of "remaining monsters". They say kill JoL's pets so many times yadda yadda yadda to cut down his regen, and that his 2hrs are directly related to the remaining mobs. JoL-UFO summons sharks Xzomits and Hpemdes... so what's remaining on this end of sea? Aerns. It is also known that SE likes to write their own interviews and like I mentioned before they specifically said " 'Aerns " which I think is another hint that it's the Om'Aerns on the East side of sea and the clue is in the prefix that they left off.

[ByeByeTasai]

Went back to sea today killed a few Aerns solo and looked around the area and the jobs seem to be consistant with last nights post. Heres a map of where all the locations of the jobs i found were and their "aerys"
http://a802.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...b77cd18589.png

[Yuri-G]

One Aern of each type, and AV has all the two-hours. Interesting, whether it's meaningful or not.

[Titanss]

They've already talked about this in the thread earlier. I don't remember the outcome tho. Or if even anyone confirmed all those being different jobs good post either way.

[fndragon]

What's the repop of Aerns in that zone?

Second question, related: Notice how the WHM, SMN, NIN, and DRG are all in the middle area? I wonder if, (and this is a big if), if this is related to how his 2hours get locked down, if keeping the DRG killed would lock down his Wynav spam?

[ByeByeTasai]

Whm can come close to the middle but is usually found in the area just north of JoL spawn. The aeries that I have drawn out are a little wrong too they have much bigger areas that they can stay in. And the WHM seems to move between both of the lower Aeries. I put him on auto follow when he was down at the bottom and he lead me near the bridge before a shark aggrod me and I had to Mijin.

[Sykes]

Unfortunately, my results are inconsistent with yours ...

[attachment=0:1sseah8w]seamap.jpg[/attachment:1sseah8w]

There are 2 WHMs, 2 RDMs, and 2 WARs, although I think that one of those RDMs is a mis-identified DRK. Those aerns changing jobs is consistent with the extra aerns with numbers that suggest that they belong in that area. Each aern only pops a single job, but 2 or more aerns can occupy a single spawn point, so you can, for example, either end up with aern #32 (BLM) or aern #33 (RDM) from the exact same spawn (this creating the appearance that they change jobs). The positioning of the Aerns in the dats suggest that there are 6 aerns depopped on the east side at any given time. 3 of these match the 3 Aerns by JoL/AV, and the other three look like they'd be spread out among the east side (accounting for why I had duplicates on at least 2 jobs while Tasai had none).

Members of my LS have mapped out all the aerns in Al'taieu with their jobs except for the ones that weren't popped when they did their testing. Interestingly enough, there are exactly 15 aerns unpopped at any given time (1 Ul' and 14 Om'); however, I think that this number is just a coincidence given that I think we have already identified the purpose of the unpopped aerns. We're going to do more testing over the weekend and will hopefully come up with some useful information.

[ByeByeTasai]

you seem to be lacking RNG and THF on your map. THF I am 100% sure was out on my map as the lower WHM, dagger in hand and triple attacked with good evasion, and with RNG... well I had never witnessed a RNG aern any other time on this side of sea untill I did this test. I found one Aern which I had originally thought to be the ninja and started soloing him with my ninja and he just kept spamming ranged attacks, no weapons in hand and never casted a Ninjutsu spell. Right after I killed this one I fought another one near by which was exactly like the other Aern except this one casted Ninjutsu as well.

Edit: you have one Aern un-accounted for. Today the THF was actually West of your lower WHM on my map and only seemed to stay in that area, unlike the other Aerns that move around that entire spot. Thf was in the corner if you follow the left wall heading North from Jailer of Love. I also took the liberty of adjusting my dat files so that the Aerns are labeled on their wings to what possible jobs they might be. Ex. Staff Aerns have SMN/BLM/WHM written down their wings.

[Sykes]

Yeah, I can explain the lack of THF, RNG and/or MNK by having them share a pop with a WAR and a WHM, but I can't figure out where the missing aern is (I'm guessing we just missed it somehow). I'm going to have to do some more research as well. The important thing, however, is that there was definitely at least one job that was duplicated on my map ... and probably two (WAR and WHM). Based on my notes, I'm pretty sure that one of my RDMs is really a DRK (used a sword and cast Stone II and Poison ... I think RDMs only cast Tier 3 elemental magic?).

[ByeByeTasai]

RDM Aerns cast Regen, that's how I found the one I found.

[Sykes]

I found our missing aern. My linkshell group actually encountered it, but forgot to map it. I updated my map above (with a fix for DRK as well).

Basically, we have duplicates of WHM, BRD, and WAR where you have THF, RNG, and MNK. This makes sense given that there are 3 aerns which should be in that area that are not popped at any given time (18 mobs occupying 15 spawns not including the 6 mobs occupying 3 spawns around the JoL ???).

[ByeByeTasai]

So what is your opinion on this matter? I'm really starting to think that these 15 Aerns might be the key. Maybe link them to him then kill to temporarily or lock corresponding 2hr. If this is the case WHM SMN BLM RDM and MNK is all you really would have to worry about, most of which can be found near the Rubious Crystal Bridge which would be a decent spot to fight AV at. I think "remaining" is the true key to SE's hint and they quite literally meant kill the mobs that you havent killed already during JoL fight which is the Aerns.

[Mojo]

I'm not trying to be mean, but the shear number of people who post in this thread without at least skimming over it first amazes me. Anyhow, I may be posting some more information soon, although nothing of terrible importance.

[ByeByeTasai]

We are providing data and records of what we are seeing in Sea. It is very true that in previous threads people have mentioned similar things and said that they seem to be false. But they say this without providing any evidence or descriptions of what they did exactly. Ex. Killing a few Aerns after AV pops and he still 2hrs does not rule out Aerns as a significance, how do we know what Aerns they killed or how they linked it to the fight. Square Enix stated 'Aerns as an example of a monster that is directly linked to AV's 2hrs.

I, and I am sure Sykes as well, have read this entire thread and been a part of it for a long time and on more several other forums as well. Just because our ideas are similar to someone elses does not mean they are the same things. Like I stated before we are gathering data not really proposing theories although we are asking if anyone has any opinions on the data we are providing in a way that might sound like theorizing. Just believing something might be totally derailed because somebody said "I tried that" and gives no other input on the matter might jump up and bite you in the ass if it is proven to be real.

There is nothing wrong with stating the facts and then proposing your own opinions on what they might mean, as well as attempting to interpret S.E.'s riddles. And at least we are trying to base them on the facts at hand. So with this being said I ask that everyone states facts with their theories, or facts with their disproving. And stop accusing people that have posted all throughout this thread of just reading the last page and posting.

edit: sometime this weekend I will create a Forum dedicated to Absolute Virtue, Almighty Apkallu and the other mysteries in FFXI, and quote on their everything that has been ruled out with evidence. It will have a sticky that doesn't allow posts which all proven evidence in one spot that is easy to read and keep it updated. I'll post the link when it is ready so that it will be easy to skim through. I just ask that anyone who posts in it please include Screenshots, Hex reports, and physically viewable evidence so that we can stop all of this "stop posting without reading" nonsense. And yes it does happen quite often like Mojo stated.

[Sykes]

I'm not trying to be mean, but the shear number of people who post in this thread without at least skimming over it first amazes me. Anyhow, I may be posting some more information soon, although nothing of terrible importance.

Nah, I realize that you covered most of this within the first 5 pages of this thread ... I'm just trying to reopen the discussion and actually map out where everything is, and perhaps even extend it to the other areas of Lumoria (even though that is even more of a huge fucking stretch). I'm still in the "AV is killable but there is some ridiculously dumb fucking gimmick to doing it" camp.

[Sifer]

when did SE state that aerns have something to do with it?

EDIT: also, are the 3 Aerns near the west auroral updraft Om or UL?

[ByeByeTasai]

Q: So, simply put, how do you keep Absolute Virtue from using his two hours?
A: His two hours are directly tied to the number of monsters remaining.

Q: Do you mean the other Jailers? Do they need to be popped and killed during the Absolute Virtue Fight?
A: No *laughs* common monsters, ‘aren for example

Q: What about spell effects like Meteor and Comet?
A: You can’t do a thing about that, if your skilled you might be able to avoid* it, but it will be extremely hard.

This is a quote from an interview with Development team sometime around fanfest. Can anyone verify this quote?

I can't find it now, but I believe this from the same Interview that told us about Scholar and the early info concerning it's abilities. Possibly from 1-up.

[Sykes]

This is the source ...

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=26052&p=800691

... definitely not the most reliable source, but not worth dismissing either.