Strategies to Defeat AV (All Theories/Ideas Here)

[SHADOWMAGE]

if you need instructions that read like "Paladins should use spells like Flash, and Cure IV to heal themselves" then i guess you shouldn't really be worried about AV in the first place... but assuming you do belong to a HNMLS then presumably your friends have some idea of what to do when trying to stay alive vs. a mega boss...
my strategy outlined above is just a variation of the strategy countless LS use to kill JoL~

this isn't strategies to defeat JoL its for AV. I know what your talking about but your not making any senses with what you have commented.

Saying something like shadowbind will save the day ain't ganna cut it. As well do you realize that the demo video AV fight did not have any RNG?

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4169 ... am3gl5.jpg

to help out on Chainspell and what other spells it can spam.

[Cog]

this isn't strategies to defeat JoL its for AV. I know what your talking about but your not making any senses with what you have commented.

Saying something like shadowbind will save the day ain't ganna cut it. As well do you realize that the demo video AV fight did not have any RNG?

oh ok, i wasn't aware demo killed AV without using shadowbind...
i'm not saying this is the only way to go about the fight, its just part of the strategy i'm making for my LS as we fight AV in the future.
the fact is shadowbind is effective on AV, and can save your ass during the battle if you use it right. by all means feel free to defeat AV using a plan of your own device.
this forum is called Advanced Player Discussion, i won't spend my time rehashing the basic strategy involved in alliance vs. boss combat.
(Protip=Cure your tanks)

[SHADOWMAGE]

this isn't strategies to defeat JoL its for AV. I know what your talking about but your not making any senses with what you have commented.

Saying something like shadowbind will save the day ain't ganna cut it. As well do you realize that the demo video AV fight did not have any RNG?

oh ok, i wasn't aware demo killed AV without using shadowbind...
i'm not saying this is the only way to go about the fight, its just part of the strategy i'm making for my LS as we fight AV in the future.
the fact is shadowbind is effective on AV, and can save your ass during the battle if you use it right. by all means feel free to defeat AV using a plan of your own device.
this forum is called Advanced Player Discussion, i won't spend my time rehashing the basic strategy involved in alliance vs. boss combat.

Lol you think I am some kind of great ppl eh?

Mr know it all? I know the strategys, and I have faced AV GL with him eh. Your ganna need more than shadowbind.

edited.

Pro-tip cure your tank lol?
So your saying everyone who faced AV sucked at curing there tank?

[Cog]

i'm more concerned with surviving AV's onslaught while somehow damaging it...
the advice i provided was not for the DD aspect of the battle, that i leave to you...
my goal is to simply keep the main tanks alive, if this is possible then victory should be as well.

[SHADOWMAGE]

i'm more concerned with surviving AV's onslaught while somehow damaging it...
the advice i provided was not for the DD aspect of the battle, that i leave to you...
my goal is to simply keep the main tanks alive, if this is possible then victory should be as well.

Ok ok I wanna be completely honest with ya here, I don't want to go to a flaming post here or anything . However I do question your strategy here. Yes I understand that hate control/ tanking is part of the key to AV strategy. But I need to know something here what is your basic plan in pointform in defeating AV? You do realize aswell in 59% I believe he goes bracelet mode, and go rapeaga mode right any plans? Is shadowbind your answer mostly for countering his infinite use's of his 2hrs?

[Cog]

whatever 'mode' he enters, is only going to speed up his attack/cast speed or increase his stats somehow-i've never seen AV enter bracelet mode personally
i'm sorry i dont have any great suggestions on how to keep hate on the tanks while they're being curebombed. everything i know about enmity is common knowledge...
the fight with AV comes down to four challenges:
1. Wynavs (possibly dealt with using kiting technique)
2. Meteor (possibly dealt with using Shadowbind)
3. benediction (possibly avoided by using benediction when AV uses SP between 60~40%)
4. sheer MP drain via melee/magic damage against the tank party (no way around this folks)

any numbskull can zerg on AV, but it takes finesse to deal damage while maintaining hate on your paladins and red mages.

seems more useful to call AV's abilities "SP"s since it can use them more than once every 2 hours (apparantly so can we all somehow)

[SHADOWMAGE]

whatever 'mode' he enters, is only going to speed up his attack/cast speed or increase his stats somehow-i've never seen AV enter bracelet mode personally
i'm sorry i dont have any great suggestions on how to keep hate on the tanks while they're being curebombed. everything i know about enmity is common knowledge...
the fight with AV comes down to four challenges:
1. Wynavs (possibly dealt with using kiting technique)
2. Meteor (possibly dealt with using Shadowbind)
3. benediction (possibly avoided by using benediction when AV uses SP between 60~40%)
4. sheer MP drain via melee/magic damage against the tank party (no way around this folks)

any numbskull can zerg on AV, but it takes finesse to deal damage while maintaining hate on your paladins and red mages.

seems more useful to call AV's abilities "SP"s since it can use them more than once every 2 hours (apparantly so can we all somehow)

He can go bracelet mode

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2165 ... s55tb6.jpg

[Cog]

if AV goes into hyper mode, that's just more strain on the healers and tanks.
if AV summons 3 extra wyverns, extra strain on the kiters.
i believe i appreciate the toughness of this monster, but it's damage output is finite...
upon entering "bracelet mode" i presume the rumored multi-SP AI would take effect, which would ramp up the difficulty again. however i believe that by taking appropriate steps the SPs can be nullified or at least managed.
i.e. AV won't hurt anyone if it's out of range to cast spells or use abilities(against its current target(your tanks should be running out of range at this point)), the only way i know to cause this is to shadowbind...
i concede that there were no RNG in the alliance shown in SE's videos, which means they ate every SP that AV used, whew;;;
therefore in theory any LS could straight tank AV with good tanks and healers, and nuke or kite wyverns; using fealty to keep tanks alive during manafont, and presuming your WHM don't run out of MP, SP like Hundred Fists or Blood Weapon would pass uneventfully, giving you the breathing room needed between manafont chainspell or soul voice..

if 'bracelet mode' really does mean using multiple 2hrs at once, i would advise against nuking the wynavs, for fear of Call Wyvern-Familiar-Astral Flow-Mijin...
(also, before AV has called his wyverns, or after they are all killed, it has only 12 SP to choose from since it can't use Familiar or AF without pets. once AV has max pets it has 14 SP at its disposal. There is 1.19% chance less of AV using manafont if max wynavs are popped already ~ 1.67% chance less of AV using manafont if fewer than the maximum wynavs are up e.g. AV can use Call Wyvern, Astral Flow, Mijin Gakure or Familiar...))
the math says it's between 6.67~8.33% that AV will use manafont when its SP timer expires...
edited* i forgot about Mijin Gakure being pet-oriented SP

also it is possible to enfeeble, attack etc. your allies that have been charmed =dispel=
if this doesnt work vs. Maiden's Virelai, you can always sleep your charmed buddies until they revert...

[Ramses]

Cog is on the right track. I'm sorry Shadowmage, but you aren't making any sense to me. Worrying about whether SE used rngs in the video is really stupid. Shadowbind is the only thing that sticks on AV. To not take advantage of that fact is beyond foolish. Nobody has seen bracelet, extra wynavs or AV locked in a 2hour since his glitches were fixed so worrying about that stuff is pointless for the time being. Kill his regen, keep hate on tanks, shadowbind and survive the bad 2 hours and chip away at him when you can should get him below 80%. If he changes at that point we can deal with it then.

[Cog]

something like a specific strategy:
1.bring your linkshell to Al'Taieu you will need:[spoiler:36b845k2]PLD u will need 3+
RDM u will need 6+
WHM u will need 3+
BLM u will need 6+
RNG at least 2 for shadowbind
BRD at least 2 to give ballad to healers and tanks
SMN at least 2 for DD and backup healing[/spoiler:36b845k2]
2.kill JoL eliminating all its spawns until they are shark-only, hopefully AV will spawn:[spoiler:36b845k2]the JoL fight calls for an alliance of tanks, healers and melee DD. the BLMs nuking down spawns are in an outside party, and need to be brought into alliance to begin low tier elemental nukes, depending on game day.
From the beginning of the fight until AV's wynavs appear, there should be 3 RDMs waiting outside alliance, or in PT with each other to kite the wyverns away. These pets are extremely dangerous and should be kept away from the tanks and mages at all times.
TANK PARTYLD PLD RDM RDM BRD WHM
BLM party:BLM BLM BLM BLM RDM BRD
DD party:WHM SMN + random melee jobs with /thf
OUT of alliance: Kiting RDMs and WHM for backup healing on tanks.[/spoiler:36b845k2]
3.slowly, while giving full support to the PLD and RDM tanks, begin taking down AV's hit points:[spoiler:36b845k2]Everyone needs to remember that AV will use a special ability each minute for the entire fight. this is its normal AI, but by having a prepared response they are survivable.
>>SP that i recommend using Shadowbind/disengage + fall back tactic: Manafont, Meikyo Shisui, Hundred Fists, Blood Weapon, Mighty Strikes
>>SP that should do nothing if your wyvern kiters are good: Mijin Gakure, Familiar, Astral Flow
keep your Baraero spells up, buffs etc etc should go without saying[/spoiler:36b845k2]
4.by now you are in a holding pattern, kiting the Wynavs and AV's health is ~90%[spoiler:36b845k2]BLM using DoT and light nuking is your main DD for this fight, but you might throw in some SMN for melee blood pacts, and like we saw in the SE videos melee jobs using SATA WS on the tanks.
if you were smart you would try and create a skillchain while sticking hate onto the paladins, then hit that magic burst with tier 3's.
remember AV uses a SP every minute or so, so the best time to get in and land hits is after AV uses a pet SP or EES[/spoiler:36b845k2]
5.now you are getting close to ~60%. you have had a paladin get K.O. and one of your BLMs took hate. Kick the dead tank, invite a fresh one. if WHMs take hate, use Shadowbind and get enmity under control.
6.This is the point in the fight where i would advise ATTEMPTING to counter AV's special abilities with your 2hrs, especially BLM SMN BRD RDM, between 50~55% of AV's hp is when i would suggest using WHM 2hr as well~[spoiler:36b845k2]you might mess around with BLU enfeebs i understand they work against JoL, why not AV?
the point of shadowbind is it makes the fight about 10x easier, but a single melee hit against AV will cause Shadowbind to wear off, so be very clear with anybody who plans to gain TP at any point, they must watch for shadowbind call or whatever, otherwise you will face the full wrath of AV's special abilities.[/spoiler:36b845k2]

[Ramses]

something like a specific strategy:
1.bring your linkshell to Al'Taieu you will need:[spoiler:mr8u5g2w]PLD u will need 3+
RDM u will need 6+
WHM u will need 3+
BLM u will need 6+
RNG at least 2 for shadowbind
BRD at least 2 to give ballad to healers and tanks
SMN at least 2 for DD and backup healing[/spoiler:mr8u5g2w]
2.kill JoL eliminating all its spawns until they are shark-only, hopefully AV will spawn:[spoiler:mr8u5g2w]the JoL fight calls for an alliance of tanks, healers and melee DD. the BLMs nuking down spawns are in an outside party, and need to be brought into alliance to begin low tier elemental nukes, depending on game day.
From the beginning of the fight until AV's wynavs appear, there should be 3 RDMs waiting outside alliance, or in PT with each other to kite the wyverns away. These pets are extremely dangerous and should be kept away from the tanks and mages at all times.
TANK PARTYLD PLD RDM RDM BRD WHM
BLM party:BLM BLM BLM BLM RDM BRD
DD party:WHM SMN + random melee jobs with /thf
OUT of alliance: Kiting RDMs and WHM for backup healing on tanks.[/spoiler:mr8u5g2w]
3.slowly, while giving full support to the PLD and RDM tanks, begin taking down AV's hit points:[spoiler:mr8u5g2w]Everyone needs to remember that AV will use a special ability each minute for the entire fight. this is its normal AI, but by having a prepared response they are survivable.
>>SP that i recommend using Shadowbind/disengage + fall back tactic: Manafont, Meikyo Shisui, Hundred Fists, Blood Weapon, Mighty Strikes
>>SP that should do nothing if your wyvern kiters are good: Mijin Gakure, Familiar, Astral Flow[/spoiler:mr8u5g2w]
4.by now you are in a holding pattern, kiting the Wynavs and AV's health is ~90%[spoiler:mr8u5g2w]BLM using DoT and light nuking is your main DD for this fight, but you might throw in some SMN for melee blood pacts, and like we saw in the SE videos melee jobs using SATA WS on the tanks.
if you were smart you would try and create a skillchain while sticking hate onto the paladins, then hit that magic burst with tier 3's.
remember AV uses a SP every minute or so, so the best time to get in and land hits is after AV uses a pet SP or EES[/spoiler:mr8u5g2w]
5.now you are getting close to ~60%. you have had a paladin get K.O. and one of your BLMs took hate. Kick the dead tank, invite a fresh one. if WHMs take hate, use Shadowbind and get enmity under control.
6.This is the point in the fight where i would advise ATTEMPTING to counter AV's special abilities with your 2hrs, especially BLM SMN BRD RDM, between 50~55% of AV's hp is when i would suggest using WHM 2hr as well~

My strategy varies somewhat from this and is a lot more detailed. I am willing to discuss it with others who are seriously trying to fight AV. So serious people can just ask specific questions here, pm me, or if there is enough interest, I will take the time to post my whole strat which is very long and detailed.

[#686578]

something like a specific strategy:
1.bring your linkshell to Al'Taieu you will need:[spoiler:16kftiee]PLD u will need 3+
RDM u will need 6+
WHM u will need 3+
BLM u will need 6+
RNG at least 2 for shadowbind
BRD at least 2 to give ballad to healers and tanks
SMN at least 2 for DD and backup healing[/spoiler:16kftiee]
2.kill JoL eliminating all its spawns until they are shark-only, hopefully AV will spawn:[spoiler:16kftiee]the JoL fight calls for an alliance of tanks, healers and melee DD. the BLMs nuking down spawns are in an outside party, and need to be brought into alliance to begin low tier elemental nukes, depending on game day.
From the beginning of the fight until AV's wynavs appear, there should be 3 RDMs waiting outside alliance, or in PT with each other to kite the wyverns away. These pets are extremely dangerous and should be kept away from the tanks and mages at all times.
TANK PARTYLD PLD RDM RDM BRD WHM
BLM party:BLM BLM BLM BLM RDM BRD
DD party:WHM SMN + random melee jobs with /thf
OUT of alliance: Kiting RDMs and WHM for backup healing on tanks.[/spoiler:16kftiee]
3.slowly, while giving full support to the PLD and RDM tanks, begin taking down AV's hit points:[spoiler:16kftiee]Everyone needs to remember that AV will use a special ability each minute for the entire fight. this is its normal AI, but by having a prepared response they are survivable.
>>SP that i recommend using Shadowbind/disengage + fall back tactic: Manafont, Meikyo Shisui, Hundred Fists, Blood Weapon, Mighty Strikes
>>SP that should do nothing if your wyvern kiters are good: Mijin Gakure, Familiar, Astral Flow
keep your Baraero spells up, buffs etc etc should go without saying[/spoiler:16kftiee]
4.by now you are in a holding pattern, kiting the Wynavs and AV's health is ~90%[spoiler:16kftiee]BLM using DoT and light nuking is your main DD for this fight, but you might throw in some SMN for melee blood pacts, and like we saw in the SE videos melee jobs using SATA WS on the tanks.
if you were smart you would try and create a skillchain while sticking hate onto the paladins, then hit that magic burst with tier 3's.
remember AV uses a SP every minute or so, so the best time to get in and land hits is after AV uses a pet SP or EES[/spoiler:16kftiee]
5.now you are getting close to ~60%. you have had a paladin get K.O. and one of your BLMs took hate. Kick the dead tank, invite a fresh one. if WHMs take hate, use Shadowbind and get enmity under control.
6.This is the point in the fight where i would advise ATTEMPTING to counter AV's special abilities with your 2hrs, especially BLM SMN BRD RDM, between 50~55% of AV's hp is when i would suggest using WHM 2hr as well~[spoiler:16kftiee]you might mess around with BLU enfeebs i understand they work against JoL, why not AV?
the point of shadowbind is it makes the fight about 10x easier, but a single melee hit against AV will cause Shadowbind to wear off, so be very clear with anybody who plans to gain TP at any point, they must watch for shadowbind call or whatever, otherwise you will face the full wrath of AV's special abilities.[/spoiler:16kftiee]

I vote this as abuse of spoilers. Not to mention my time and decreased intelligence from reading this.

[SHADOWMAGE]

Cog is on the right track. I'm sorry Shadowmage, but you aren't making any sense to me. Worrying about whether SE used rngs in the video is really stupid. Shadowbind is the only thing that sticks on AV. To not take advantage of that fact is beyond foolish. Nobody has seen bracelet, extra wynavs or AV locked in a 2hour since his glitches were fixed so worrying about that stuff is pointless for the time being. Kill his regen, keep hate on tanks, shadowbind and survive the bad 2 hours and chip away at him when you can should get him below 80%. If he changes at that point we can deal with it then.

Alrighty than, if you believe shadowbind will work, go on ahead with your shadowbind strategy. Recast time 5mins, and duration is 30 seconds for shadowbind (you sure do have alot of faith with this JA alone)

Your ganna need alot of RNG's too....

I am not saying you shouldn't use shadowbind; "in my opinion" I am just saying don't rely to much on this.
No one has seen AV in bracelet mode after the fix, but you still have to take that into consideration. Also remeber that no one has brought down AV down to 59% after the fixes ( if I remeber correctly).

My thoughts only, I don't think you need a RNG for the AV fight. However I am not saying you shouldn't use a RNG in a AV fight, because SE decided not too. You still need to be open minded, be open to your options; but I just ask that you share the information or the outcome of the battle.

I do care that whatever necessary information you've observe, or you've prove me wrong that you share it. I am not here to downsize people (if my tone sounds like that I apologize), I am only here to question and find the information related in the defeat of AV. Please, please, please ,please, test your theory out, and share them.

[Ramses]

Cog is on the right track. I'm sorry Shadowmage, but you aren't making any sense to me. Worrying about whether SE used rngs in the video is really stupid. Shadowbind is the only thing that sticks on AV. To not take advantage of that fact is beyond foolish. Nobody has seen bracelet, extra wynavs or AV locked in a 2hour since his glitches were fixed so worrying about that stuff is pointless for the time being. Kill his regen, keep hate on tanks, shadowbind and survive the bad 2 hours and chip away at him when you can should get him below 80%. If he changes at that point we can deal with it then.

Alrighty than, if you believe shadowbind will work, go on ahead with your shadowbind strategy. Recast time 5mins, and duration is 30 seconds for shadowbind (you sure do have alot of faith with this JA alone)

Your ganna need alot of RNG's too....

I am not saying you shouldn't use shadowbind; "in my opinion" I am just saying don't rely to much on this.
No one has seen AV in bracelet mode after the fix, but you still have to take that into consideration. Also remeber that no one has brought down AV down to 59% after the fixes ( if I remeber correctly).

My thoughts only, I don't think you need a RNG for the AV fight. However I am not saying you shouldn't use a RNG in a AV fight, because SE decided not too. You still need to be open minded, be open to your options; but I just ask that you share the information or the outcome of the battle.

I do care that whatever necessary information you've observe, or you've prove me wrong that you share it. I am not here to downsize people (if my tone sounds like that I apologize), I am only here to question and find the information related in the defeat of AV. Please, please, please ,please, test your theory out, and share them.

Two rngs should be plenty. There are only four 2 hours that you have to shadowbind. Duration is 40 secs with af hands. Unless you are extremely unlucky and he happens to do these four 2 hours consecutively, two rngs are plenty. Use three rngs at first to be safe if you need to.

Shadowbind isn't the only answer. You still need a group of people who know exactly what they are doing. You need near perfect execution. You need to position correctly, have flight plans ready beforehand, practice your kite paths. Set up a hospital out of enmity range. People need to read and react. Do this and AV will go down eventually.

[Cog]

in the last year has anyone seen Absolute Virtue do any of the following ?

1. Cast Meteor without using {Manafont}.

2. Cast any songs without using {Soul Voice}.

3. Use Draw-In.




only if YOU SAW IT. idc about screenshots from some people using exploits

[Robert]

1. dunno
2. wynavs cast songs
3. yes

[Ramses]

AV will only draw in if he can't path to you i.e. you are behind the wall to north limbus area.

[Cog]

so no, no, and no.

[kareface]

We are doing a bunch of JoL's, I'd like to test out some theories on killing him. Let's assume you can't lock his 2hrs, what are the other possible ways we could kill him or nerf him. What hasn't been tested, or needed to be tested more throughly?

[Virtuous Saint]

We are doing a bunch of JoL's, I'd like to test out some theories on killing him. Let's assume you can't lock his 2hrs, what are the other possible ways we could kill him or nerf him. What hasn't been tested, or needed to be tested more throughly?

Let's say you can't, unkillable. That said, lets look at some things you could try:
1. AV both 'uses' and 'readies' every single 2hr, at this time it is completely unknown as to why he does this, however it is extremely unlikely this is a glitch of any kind. CoP dynamis monsters work in similar fashion to this, by 'readying' 2hrs, ect. There is no reason to rule this out ever when testing as it has 100% not been tested, or tested correctly. There are numerous things that could be tested with the theory behind this, such as: use SAME 2hr AFTER AV 'readies' a 2hr in hopes this will make some sort of change to its ability to use this 2hr or the amount of time it has under that given 2hr ect. Also 'readies' implies a job ability, and when CoP dynamis bosses do this they can 'ready' the 2hr but it will not actually go off, which is really the theory behind this. With all of this said there is still no way to know HOW it even goes into 'readies' 2hr form, however if this has nothing to do with locking AV then I sure as hell don't know what else could. Everything else possible has been tried, or tested pretty much.


2. I have nothing for 2, best bet is to look more into 'readies' and what changes can be made after it starts doing that. It could really be as simple as what the video shows + the fact that it only locks AFTER you use the 2hr it used once it says 'readies'. The video shows how to kill, it "holds the secrets" the way to weaken is in the video, SE said this. The only thing that I can pretty much 100% say is that no one has tested this, or done it correctly. Once again I will say we don't know how it 'readies' instead of 'uses' but if you get it to do that I strongly suggest you test this theory as it would appear to be the only thing that hasen't been tested that makes any shread of sense, and at the same time nearly matches what is the 'hint' of the video in 2hring AFTER 'readies' 2hr. BTW yes I know there is only ONE time in the NA video they 2hr after a 'readies' 2hr, but that in no way means it isn't what the hint is. The video is meant to give a 'hint' not show you exactly what to do... like some people think, thus just because they 2hr after EVERY 2hr doesn't rule out 2hr after 'readies'. btw if you watch the NA video closely during 'AV readies chainspell' you can see evidence that this 2hr looks more like an ability instead of the other 2hrs that are just dust cloud under it with no visual difference at all; this really doesn't mean much, but I believe it rules out the 'glitch' statement often brought up when someone suggests the fact that it both 'uses' and 'readies' 2hrs. idk whatever, GL