Dear Ganiman, (op updated)

[Toxictaru]

Wait, so they get the money from the fundraiser AND they sold the site? This increasingly sounds like a very good business decision lol.

Anyone knows how much money they got for the site?

When I asked, I was told the terms of the deal were private.

I also felt like adding the following: while Ganiman had lost his job, was facing a new child (who is supposed to be due in November) and had no real source of income to even fund the site, he certainly didn't seem concerned, and instead decided it was a prime time to EXP zerg his WAR. If you were facing the prospect of a child and no job, while still having to pay rent and bills, wouldn't you be more concerned with getting a job instead of trying to get WAR to 75? Moving on.

[Zero Serenity]

I'm not sure I want to go that far. Granted, I would like my account back so my guide could get work done, plus my userpage is hopelessly out of date and other things I just see that I'd like to fix.

-Zero

[Ksandra]

Holy... some fucked up shit going on. I'm interested in a response from Ganiman from taj's last post as he's bring us some facts of costs. I never donated but ya it's sad to see the money go nowhere to the people that donated.

Wait, so they get the money from the fundraiser AND they sold the site? This increasingly sounds like a very good business decision lol.

Anyone knows how much money they got for the site?

When I asked, I was told the terms of the deal were private.

I also felt like adding the following: while Ganiman had lost his job, was facing a new child (who is supposed to be due in November) and had no real source of income to even fund the site, he certainly didn't seem concerned, and instead decided it was a prime time to EXP zerg his WAR. If you were facing the prospect of a child and no job, while still having to pay rent and bills, wouldn't you be more concerned with getting a job instead of trying to get WAR to 75? Moving on.

Going with the train of the thread, I don't disbelieve you toxic (until proven otherwise) but the war to 75 actually sounds the opposite of what you interpret. Only because FF is often an escape for many many people. So that to me is a sign he was worried and was trying to not think about it by putting his energy into the video game. Though that worry could have caused him to do something stupid with the money.

[Zero Serenity]

Well, an escape isn't bad, but when it's your employment is at stake, you shouldn't even consider playing. Didn't you read the warning when you started XI that says "...[or your work] suffer as consequence."? If he's unemployed he should be working towards a new job. That's what I did and I found a great job and even more motiviation to play XI when I got it.

-Zero

[Ksandra]

Well, an escape isn't bad, but when it's your employment is at stake, you shouldn't even consider playing. Didn't you read the warning when you started XI that says "...[or your work] suffer as consequence."? If he's unemployed he should be working towards a new job. That's what I did and I found a great job and even more motiviation to play XI when I got it.

-Zero

I didn't say it was good or that's what he should have done, just saying that it could be a sign that he was worried versus him not caring which is what toxic was suggesting..

[6souls]

i found some people that were happy to receive their T-shirts & mousepads.

http://www.ffxiclopedia.org/ganiman/...l/DSC00247.jpg

[Mifaco]

Suddenly, some users on the forums decided to repeatedly attack myself and my wife, for absolutely NO reason.

hahahaha when I read something like this, there's ALWAYS a reason

[Sagus]

Reading through this, whether you want to argue about if this was actual fraud or not, it all sounds very sketchy and I'm glad I didn't donate a penny.

[Toxictaru]

Suddenly, some users on the forums decided to repeatedly attack myself and my wife, for absolutely NO reason.

hahahaha when I read something like this, there's ALWAYS a reason

Actually, there was no reason for them to attack us, short of them just plain not liking us. They repeatedly called both my wife and myself elitist for having harsh opinions of people who suck at FFXI. Neither of us ever named names, so as to not come across as totally mean on the off-chance that they read what we wrote. Simply having an opinion in a "private" place like my blog was reason enough for them to judge me and attack me repeatedly. Hence, no reason.

Ksandra, I agree, it COULD have been an escape, but I'm sure everyone can see it from my point of view. Suddenly he is online from home for a month solid, quiet about all things wiki-related, not answering calls to administration duties, but happily EXPing warrior all day every day. Suddenly, all in one day, finally admits to not having a job, having a pregnant wife and selling the wiki to the site he basically called the devil... all while bragging that he now had a 3rd job in the 70s (yay?). It seemed less like he was WORRIED, more like he was happy and relieved that he was able to take time off.

While I never got a solid figure out of him, I did ask, the day he announced it, if it was enough to finally retire (it was a private joke between the two of us, he said he'd only sell the wiki if he could retire from the sale), his answer was simply no.

I just want to know what is actually happening with the money we donated. I don't believe a single word about how much the servers were actually costing Ganiman. The servers were ONLY active for 2-3 months, and despite their attempts to make enough for 3, Gani decided that it would run just fine on 2, one webserver and one DB server. There was a large order of t-shirts and mouse pads, and Gahoo WILL be selling off the extra stock during the Fan Festival (I should try to dig that chat log up), so in the end, they'll make back some of the money they spent on that crap. All told, the fundraiser hit over the 9k mark, but nothing anyone can dig up shows where the money ACTUALLY went. Mierin isn't a tax attorney, but I'm sure he is well-versed in enough of the law to understand that I'd trust him not to be stupid enough to let Ganiman to screw himself over regarding taxes and the such... at least, I hope not. I'd still like to know how the wiki accepted those donations; is there an FFXIclopedia non-profit organization, or will Ganiman be paying taxes on all of it? To be honest, I think our donations helped pay Ganimans rent and credit card bills for a while. I think the general public who use and maintain the wiki on a day-by-day basis should be told exactly where all of the money we donated went.

I think my biggest problem with all of this, in the end, was that Ganiman profited from simply facilitating the running of the wiki, it was the thousands of people who added, edited, formatted, confirmed and just plain donated to the wiki that made it work. Unlike other premiere sites, the FFXIclopedia was and is a site that was not fully created by the administration, but by everyone. In the end, Ganiman profited from everyone else's hard work... and its disgusting.

[Darkhearted]

I'd be interested in reading the original call for donations. It seems everyone was under the impression they were donating to the Wiki team's purchase of their own servers, in fact, I don't remember any talk at the time about leasing. If they led the users to believe the money was going towards privately owned, dedicated servers, (they don't have to outright express) and then doubled back onto "we meant lease them" explanation, then that is fraud. It would be deceiving the userbase into donating for a false cause, and it is illegal. But that's the home run, there's still other problems.

The notion that donating to a website somehow releases said website from any responsibility is wholly false. Whether you're a charity or not, asking for donations and doing something differently with them (Wikia) is illegal. The examples of the United Way and Charities for starvation are nothing but examples of crafty requests. The companies merely ask for donations to their companies and organizations, not to the missions of those charities. Thus the money is used by the organization, in whatever way they feel they need it. Sure, some of it trickles down into the cause which you donated it for, but that's not the explicit cause for which you actually donated. When you give a quarter to UNICEF, you're giving a quarter to UNICEF.. not to starving kids in Africa, sorry.

You can not ask for money for one thing, and use it for another. Period. If they wanted 7k to spend on various things within their operation, the correct approach would have been to ask for money to go towards FFXIclopedia[Period]. They could then mention it would go to things such as server fees or whathaveyou, after the fact, but since they seemed to have asked for donations for an explicit cause and did something else with the money is fraud completely.

Basically you can't ask for money for the school football team and then give a portion of that money to the marching band to put on a better half time show.

[Gere]

I'd be interested in reading the original call for donations.

Your wish is granted:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/FFXIcloped ... pport/2007

[Fridell]

He sold to Sage Sundi's private company. True story.

[Darkhearted]

I'd be interested in reading the original call for donations.

Your wish is granted:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/FFXIcloped ... pport/2007

Well, after reviewing the revision history, the good news is it looks like the original plan was hosting and not purchasing their own servers. I'm not sure where so many people got that idea (unless I'm going crazy and imaging something that didn't happen, which is possible), unless that's not the original statement or past revisions can be deleted by admins. The optimist in me is willing to assume neither.

It still leaves open the problem of asking for donations for one thing and using the donations for another, however. The donations were received under the idea that they would be used to upgrade hosting plans, not to be used explicitly for tshirts and mousepads (which were obviously used for promotional purposes as well as a return on investment [See: Sage Sundi pic]), and later a raffle of expansion packs. Hate to say it, but that's on the not legal side of the fence. Either way, I hope they kept a good paper trail along the way if any of the people who donated decide to dispute the chosen actions.

[divisortheory]

I think my biggest problem with all of this, in the end, was that Ganiman profited from simply facilitating the running of the wiki

Welcome to life, where people profit off of other people's hard work. I honestly can't believe you just said that. The whole reason you're pissed off is because Ganiman might make money off the wiki? That's how shit works, guy! Idea = jackpot, hard work implementing idea = nothing.

[Fng]

I gave money to both this site and the wiki.

I don't care if they snorted one big fat line of cat nip or coke with the money. Just so long as when I type in the address the site comes up.

Count me as one that doesn't care what happens to the 7k.

[Byrd]

I gave money to both this site and the wiki.

I don't care if they snorted one big fat line of cat nip or coke with the money. Just so long as when I type in the address the site comes up.

Count me as one that doesn't care what happens to the 7k.

First time I've read a post it this entire thread that I 100% agree with (although I think I only donated to either BG or Wiki, I honestly can't remember which one).

[Gere]

I'd be interested in reading the original call for donations.

Your wish is granted:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/FFXIcloped ... pport/2007

Well, after reviewing the revision history, the good news is it looks like the original plan was hosting and not purchasing their own servers. I'm not sure where so many people got that idea (unless I'm going crazy and imaging something that didn't happen, which is possible), unless that's not the original statement or past revisions can be deleted by admins. The optimist in me is willing to assume neither.

It still leaves open the problem of asking for donations for one thing and using the donations for another, however. The donations were received under the idea that they would be used to upgrade hosting plans, not to be used explicitly for tshirts and mousepads (which were obviously used for promotional purposes as well as a return on investment [See: Sage Sundi pic]), and later a raffle of expansion packs. Hate to say it, but that's on the not legal side of the fence. Either way, I hope they kept a good paper trail along the way if any of the people who donated decide to dispute the chosen actions.

Well the way they made it sound, the 2k was going to be used as "emergency money" in case something went wrong with the servers already. The whole reason for the raffle idea was to give the money back to the donaters because they didn't need it for it's original purpose any longer (since they decided to switch to wikia after a few months of low post-fundraiser donations).

If they did do that raffle, I imagine that the only people eligible for it would be the people who had donated during the fundraiser.

The only issue still disputed is the one Taj brought up, "did they really spend that much on hosting". So I guess we just have to wait for a wiki admin to post how much they pay and such to clear that up.

[Toxictaru]

I think my biggest problem with all of this, in the end, was that Ganiman profited from simply facilitating the running of the wiki

Welcome to life, where people profit off of other people's hard work. I honestly can't believe you just said that. The whole reason you're pissed off is because Ganiman might make money off the wiki? That's how shit works, guy! Idea = jackpot, hard work implementing idea = nothing.

No, I'm pissed off because of the way he treated a situation. He will outright ban people who speak up about the way he does things, and even the slightest criticisms against him or the wiki results in horrible reactions in the end. Then again, I hardly accept your opinion on this matter, you're still a Jr. Admin there... clearly you're on his good side, and you'd have no idea what he does to people he doesn't like.

[Miji]

I think my biggest problem with all of this, in the end, was that Ganiman profited from simply facilitating the running of the wiki

Welcome to life, where people profit off of other people's hard work. I honestly can't believe you just said that. The whole reason you're pissed off is because Ganiman might make money off the wiki? That's how shit works, guy! Idea = jackpot, hard work implementing idea = nothing.

No, I'm pissed off because of the way he treated a situation. He will outright ban people who speak up about the way he does things, and even the slightest criticisms against him or the wiki results in horrible reactions in the end. Then again, I hardly accept your opinion on this matter, you're still a Jr. Admin there... clearly you're on his good side, and you'd have no idea what he does to people he doesn't like.

So your problem isn't that he might have made money, but that you don't like him?

[divisortheory]

No, I'm pissed off because of the way he treated a situation. He will outright ban people who speak up about the way he does things, and even the slightest criticisms against him or the wiki results in horrible reactions in the end. Then again, I hardly accept your opinion on this matter, you're still a Jr. Admin there... clearly you're on his good side, and you'd have no idea what he does to people he doesn't like.

On paper I may be, but I haven't had time to really participate in about 6-7 months. I also haven't really spoken to Ganiman in probably 3-4 months, and the last time I did it was a "hey what's up" on AIM, and the conversation lasted about 2 minutes. Besides, it doesn't matter whose side you're on to be able to see how you treated people on the forums and on the wiki. What you call "expressing your opinions" is what a normal human being would call "bashing and being a fucking asshole". That kind of stuff is perfectly welcome on this forum, but it's not welcome over there. Your personality and your holier than thou attitude of "if you don't agree with me, then you're a fucking idiot and you're wrong" wasn't welcome over there (I'm guilty of it here as well, but unlike you I can figure out where the line is drawn). That's what you were never able to get. You were given at least 5 warnings and you still couldn't get it. You still don't get it, even though I'm reminding you for the umpteenth time about how you were a dick to people over there, because in your mind you're just always right and everyone else that you ever argued with really was an asshole.

The thing is, nobody cares whether you were ultimately right or wrong. What they care about was that when you were around, the pot kept getting stirred, arguments kept getting instigated, and things kept getting taken to the next level. What happened to you was your fault, regardless of who's the one telling you.