Dear Ganiman, (op updated)

[Tyche]

Charitable fund raising legislation varies state to state, and having a lawyer on hand, I'd assume that was known. Internet fund-raising also doesn't have specific legislation regarding that issue as states do as far as I can recall. I don't know if they are obligated to release financial information or not because of this (I'd assume it will not apply from Mierin's responses). Comparing a fund-raising venture to running a company is pretty laughable on meirin's part. He'd known that charitable fundraising doesn't follow the same guidelines as "for-profit" businesses. Legally though, there is no mandation where an "x" percentage of funds have to go toward what the fundraiser is for. Therefore, FFXIclopedia is not legally obligated to give anyone a red cent of any of the money back. This is why you never trust online fundraisers, especially one that is co-ran by an attorney who I'd assume undoubtedly knew this.

[Mojo]

I love internet

[Malaquist]

I don't think the biggest concern a lot of us had was that you were "lying". There were other points raised in this thread, like Khamsin's, which I'll get to in a minute. Let's say that you did give us the invoices and that it did show a substantial amount of money was spent on shirts, and someone went out and found a much cheaper alternative.

Gani went to a guy he knew who could do the screens, and hired him. He didn't price shop around. It sounded like a reasonable price to all of us. In addition, Gani actually ordered too many.

Well then.

The question isn't is Ganiman plotting to run away with people's money and live off his swiss bank account on some tropical island, it's whether Ganiman was responsible with the money.

This is where I feel one of the biggest problems is. If you're using someone else's money, why exactly would you not shop around and double check your figures? Actually, it looks like you predicted that while I was editing this.

At this point, even the invoices wouldn't suffice for you because then you'll probably start asking questions like, why we choose what we did, and why we didn't find something cheaper.

You didn't look around because you didn't predict that people would be concerned with where their money went. "We're not businessmen", yes, I know. So why do you keep comparing yourself to businesses (or non-profit groups with entirely different purposes)?

...did you know that 50% of the United Way budget goes towards advertising? That's $.50 of every dollar you donate doesn't go to that little kid you wanted to help out, but to rather the advertising budget.

Did you know you're a Final Fantasy fansite and not the United Way? Why do you need advertising? I don't fully understand the shirts and mousepads, as if they were some fantastic incentive to give money to the wiki. I can't imagine anyone out there that was seriously teetering on the edge of donating until they were wooed by shirts and mousepads.

People are upset because they feel that their time and their money were wasted and that they were misled as to what they were being spent on. At this point, you're right, even the numbers wouldn't appease anyone.

I have said all that I am going to say.

Which is a shame, because it precludes any chance of getting the exact figures or a heartfelt apology. There are certainly people that are concerned about the money, but not all of us are interested in the "logistics" of the deal. I prefer to look at website drama from the perspective of public relations, and while you may not be doing anything illegal, it could still be argued that by being shortsighted and/or wasteful with donated money you were being immoral.

Even if you are giving the extra money back, the mildly insulting or evasive responses in this thread damaged your credibility more than the "missing" money did, and I imagine it will take quite a while to gain back some of the trust lost here.

Don't get me wrong. BG is argumentative and even if you did provide everything they asked for there would still be complaints. Yet when you refuse to provide details for simple requests, like where you're leasing from, it leaves those of us that normally aren't so hot-tempered wondering, too.

[Miji]

We're not businessmen.

Obviously! You like to use fancy words, though...

So only businessmen are allowed to have a vocabulary you consider fancy?

[aurik]

We're not businessmen.

Obviously! You like to use fancy words, though...

So only businessmen are allowed to have a vocabulary you consider fancy?

Yes, it's written in the Internet Book Of Rules.

[Malaquist]

So only entrepreneurs are permitted to possess a lexicon you deem ostentatious?

Indubitably, my good chum.

People generally won't donate more than $1-200 unless they know they can write it off on their taxes when the man comes around in April....

I wonder what the biggest donation was.

[Correction]

http://i7.tinypic.com/4zum6w3.png

Ya know a bunch of incompetent not-businessmen with a lot of donated money is a little like a mule with a spinning wheel; No-one knows how he got it and danged if he knows how to use it.

[Ryko]

^

Wins, lock the topic.

[Remyo]

will the wiki have a monorail now?

[Shuemue]

Hey Sonomaa, how much cash do you need for a bgWiki?

[Koga]

Agree with Ryko.
We arent going to get anywhere.
Count our losses and move on at this point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-profit_organization

[Rhinox]

Whats happening here is strangely similar to the whole "OMG ZAM GOT SOLD TO IGE I NOT GOING TO THIS SITE ANYMORE" Scandal. funny thing is they survived just fine after it all blew over. all the people that swore off ZAM are probably back by now as Closet ZAMMERS. My Advice to the Admins of Wiki stop posting on this thread they are gonna try to rip everything you say to peices. 8/10 people that are pissed will still be checking FFXIclopedia evertime they need Info on something because they know like it or not its the best place to get quest info.

[Izzy]

Whats happening here is strangely similar to the whole "OMG ZAM GOT SOLD TO IGE I NOT GOING TO THIS SITE ANYMORE" Scandal. funny thing is they survived just fine after it all blew over. all the people that swore off ZAM are probably back by now as Closet ZAMMERS. My Advice to the Admins of Wiki stop posting on this thread they are gonna try to rip everything you say to peices. 8/10 people that are pissed will still be checking FFXIclopedia evertime they need Info on something because they know like it or not its the best place to get quest info.

Ride balls more?

No one is saying, "OH GOD NEVER GO TO WIKI AGAIN". They just wanna know where their money is going to. If you gave me money to buy clothes, and I went and pissed it away on a hooker, wouldn't you feel a bit wronged?

[Chips]

Hey Sonomaa, how much cash do you need for a bgWiki?

BGWIKI for the win. seriously

[Rhinox]

Whats happening here is strangely similar to the whole "OMG ZAM GOT SOLD TO IGE I NOT GOING TO THIS SITE ANYMORE" Scandal. funny thing is they survived just fine after it all blew over. all the people that swore off ZAM are probably back by now as Closet ZAMMERS. My Advice to the Admins of Wiki stop posting on this thread they are gonna try to rip everything you say to peices. 8/10 people that are pissed will still be checking FFXIclopedia evertime they need Info on something because they know like it or not its the best place to get quest info.

Ride balls more?

No one is saying, "OH GOD NEVER GO TO WIKI AGAIN". They just wanna know where their money is going to. If you gave me money to buy clothes, and I went and pissed it away on a hooker, wouldn't you feel a bit wronged?

Cry more?

How were you personally affected by what they did (not saying they did anything wrong) how much did you lose out because of this? Or is your Vajayjay just sandy because its a moral outrage and you want to fit in with the mob action mentality thats going one here? anyway i'm done glad i got to at least put in my 2 cents.

Edit: im not taking one side or the other just simply saying that all this drama (while its good for killing time at work) is not gonna change the outcome of anything.

and one last thing

If you gave me money to buy clothes, and I went and pissed it away on a hooker, wouldn't you feel a bit wronged?

No. I'd chuck it up as a life experiance and research the charity more closely next time i was in a giving mood. I wouldn't write an angry letter to congress about it.

[Malaquist]

BGWIKI for the win. seriously

I thought about mentioning that somewhere (although I was planning it as a response to a "THEN Y DONT U GUYZ MAKE UR OWN WIKI GAWD"), but between finding impartial mods and admins when the forum mods/admins are already busy with that and mediawiki apparently being bloated it's probably not a great idea... I guess BG could always fundraise for more servers, har har. I also don't know where you'd get most of the information from since the people that live to edit wikis are already editing ffxiclopedia.

If we need a wiki for anything it's to track BG memes, explain proper usage, and declare them dead when they get overrused.

anyway i'm done glad i got to at least put in my 2 cents.

I suggest you invest in a piggy bank and save up those posts next time. Two cents won't get you a mousepad.

[Sykes]

Ride balls more?

No one is saying, "OH GOD NEVER GO TO WIKI AGAIN". They just wanna know where their money is going to. If you gave me money to buy clothes, and I went and pissed it away on a hooker, wouldn't you feel a bit wronged?

This thread ceased being about where the money is going 7 pages ago. Now it's just pointless bickering and bitching, interspersed with bitter ramblings from people who were banned. I'm honestly surprised that representatives from the wiki even continued responding as long as they did. Despite the fact that their only legal responsibilities are to Wikia (to whom they have certainly documented everything given that Wikia would refuse to deal with them if there were financial improprieties) and not the BG user base, and the fact Wiki community will continue to thrive regardless of what anyone on BG says, they still made an effort to clear up the confusion. That sure smells of fraud!

[Izzy]

anyway i'm done glad i got to at least put in my 2 cents.

I suggest you invest in a piggy bank and save up those posts next time. Two cents won't get you a mousepad.

Game. Set. Match.

[Koga]

I am not banned from the wiki; I don't want exact figures; I want to know where it went and why we are being lied to.
They didn't try to clear up the situation; they used circular reasoning to try and evade the questions.

[Rhinox]

[quote:6be7d]anyway i'm done glad i got to at least put in my 2 cents.

I suggest you invest in a piggy bank and save up those posts next time. Two cents won't get you a mousepad.[/quote:6be7d]

harhar and your opinion just like mine does not mean dick in the grand scheme of things. Your so outraged write a letter to congress.