Damage change thread

[Nameless]

40 acc is 20% effective acc.

It doesn't matter what the base is, acc is calculated by substraction not as a ratio.

If you don't have a clue about game mechanics, don't talk about game mechanics.

Anyone that denies that the accuracy bonus is a huge factor is a complete idiot, now its certainly possible to still get balanced damage output with the acc change, but basically it means different weapon types have radically different needs in terms of stat enhancements (gear, songs, food).

Try go hit kirin without sushi with that 20% effective acc. Tell me how that serve you. I know about game machanics, and I am telling you it ain't 20% cuz pre update with and without sushi on kirin was a huge huge difference, and you are saying having this dex = acc thing means eating sushi? Sometimes ppl get too caught up on numbers and forget about reality, I am telling you it ain't calculated like that.

[Nameless]

Yea, i see alot of war/nin with GA, not sure what up with that. Need to learn how to /sam lol. Not easy at first, but /nin is absolutely missing the point for GA. Probably most War just go /nin for DW still but want to mess around with GA, and find it not as good, cuz they are subbing /nin.

some people like their mages to have mp after a few fights. it's not all about max dmg all of the time when meriting, it's keeping the party going.

If you want better damage, /sam and use GA, if you want better defense, /nin and use axe. /nin with GA does less than /nin with axe. I don't see why you would do that, offers the same defense and less offense.

[Amele]

Yea, i see alot of war/nin with GA, not sure what up with that. Need to learn how to /sam lol. Not easy at first, but /nin is absolutely missing the point for GA. Probably most War just go /nin for DW still but want to mess around with GA, and find it not as good, cuz they are subbing /nin.

some people like their mages to have mp after a few fights. it's not all about max dmg all of the time when meriting, it's keeping the party going.

you need more parties where everyone goes /war (and war go /sam). you can keep a 3 mage 3 melee party going just fine unless you did something dumb like brd brd cor for the backline. The trick is pacing your pulls so you don't run out.

[RKenshin]

Personally getting out parsed by near 10% by a Samurai vs 2 maxed out war (one with no hauberk though) is too much

Great Axe WAR/SAM is "maxed out". /NIN means you're going defensive and you're not supposed to parse as high as the DDs that are going all out.

I strongly agree with this, WAR/NINs skew the parse results as it is since they'll be losing swings and # of WS to casting shadows. The whole purpose SE seem to have with this update is make 2h weapons better than 1h and/or dual wielding anyway (aka what most people thought it should be like in the beginning, because I sure as hell remember being so confused as to why a GA/GS had a good deal amount smaller DoT than an Axe or Sword leveling to 30 on my first job; WAR).

So really trying to compare SAM, which is now a really strong 2h user, to anything using 1h weapons (even if it's Ridill) seems kind of pointless if you're trying to figure out which job has the highest damage potential. I realize those parses weren't meant to show that but some people are taking them that way when they shouldn't be. If you want a real comparison take a decked out WAR/SAM with a GA and then see what those results are like. I doubt the difference would still be 10% or greater if the WAR is good, as previous parses have shown GA WAR to be stronger than Rid WAR now.

some people like their mages to have mp after a few fights. it's not all about max dmg all of the time when meriting, it's keeping the party going.

The thing is, you can avoid damage effectively if you just use Seigan and have some common sense in its use. I've been Seigan tanking the majority of the fights for most exp PTs I'm in since I got GK almost a year ago now and I've never had to stop a chain for MP (even in the pickup PTs with questionable setups).

Try go hit kirin without sushi with that 20% effective acc. Tell me how that serve you. I know about game machanics, and I am telling you it ain't 20% cuz pre update with and without sushi on kirin was a huge huge difference, and you are saying having this dex = acc thing means eating sushi? Sometimes ppl get too caught up on numbers and forget about reality, I am telling you it ain't calculated like that.

Go figure it out yourself. I don't necessarily agree that it's as simple as saying 40 acc in any situation is a 20% increase in overall acc, but just look at the common math here. Looking at your DEX totals on any job, this patch has given at least 40 and as high as 60 acc to just about every well-equiped 2h melee.

As an example, using the gear on my LJ (even though I've changed it since then), I have 91 total DEX. Before patch, that 91 DEX would've gave me 45.5 Acc. Now after patch, it gives me 91 acc. It added 45.5 total accuracy to my gear set for free.

A reminder that an old thread proved Sushi was about 50-55 acc. So yes, this patch basically gave every melee a free version off sushi.

Also keep in mind that as an Elvaan SAM I have just about as shitty low levels of DEX as it gets.

[Codernaut]

40 acc is 20% effective acc.

It doesn't matter what the base is, acc is calculated by substraction not as a ratio.

If you don't have a clue about game mechanics, don't talk about game mechanics.

Anyone that denies that the accuracy bonus is a huge factor is a complete idiot, now its certainly possible to still get balanced damage output with the acc change, but basically it means different weapon types have radically different needs in terms of stat enhancements (gear, songs, food).

Try go hit kirin without sushi with that 20% effective acc. Tell me how that serve you. I know about game machanics, and I am telling you it ain't 20% cuz pre update with and without sushi on kirin was a huge huge difference, and you are saying having this dex = acc thing means eating sushi? Sometimes ppl get too caught up on numbers and forget about reality, I am telling you it ain't calculated like that.

Parse it.

[SeraphusRagnarok]

What's your penta gear look like?



EDIT: I went out to solo some sea puks for a bit. Penta thrust is garbage now. I was doing just as much with skewer. Penta's were 600(if I missed 1 hit) to 1000. Skewer was doing 800-1k. 800-900 with wheeling. Use that on harder mobs and the accuracy will just suck it up.

Mezraq
Tiphia Sting
Hecatomb Cap
Shadow Gorget
Ethereal Earring
Brutal Earring
Hecatomb Harness
Pallas Bracelets
Raja's Ring
Flame Ring
Forager's Mantle
Warwolf Belt
Conte Cosciales
Hecatomb Leggings

Polearm 8/8
Crit 8/8
STR 3/5

[Nagamaki]

The accuracy tests I used to produce the accuracy formula are quite straightforward, 40 accuracy will increase a swing's chance to connect by 20% from what it would be without, the only cases where this isn't true is at the caps, since those are hardcoded limits you can't go above or below.

Its a very very simple formula, in a parse things like evasion buffs/debuffs and acc buffs/debuffs will throw it off a bit since different combinations will send you past the effective accuracy caps. So in practice if you were already near cap you don't gain 20%, but that's kinda self-evident, when acc% is capped adding acc+ doesn't do anything.

[HadesBothari]

patch has given at least 40 and as high as 60 acc

Which 2her gets to 120 dex? I'd say 40-50 MAX bonus. And seeing as 40 acc ~ 20% parsed acc, I'd say it evened out to the 20% free dual wield delay reduction that 1hers were getting.

[AoshiZ]

40 acc is 20% effective acc.

It doesn't matter what the base is, acc is calculated by substraction not as a ratio.

If you don't have a clue about game mechanics, don't talk about game mechanics.

Anyone that denies that the accuracy bonus is a huge factor is a complete idiot, now its certainly possible to still get balanced damage output with the acc change, but basically it means different weapon types have radically different needs in terms of stat enhancements (gear, songs, food).

Try go hit kirin without sushi with that 20% effective acc. Tell me how that serve you. I know about game machanics, and I am telling you it ain't 20% cuz pre update with and without sushi on kirin was a huge huge difference, and you are saying having this dex = acc thing means eating sushi? Sometimes ppl get too caught up on numbers and forget about reality, I am telling you it ain't calculated like that.

FYI... before all of the 2H updates, I was hitting kirin around 80% accuracy eating meat without madrigals.
This was on my +97 ACC build just for kirin. I also had no problems hitting fafnir. This will effectively show you how much of a difference the 40+ accuracy gives.

Now I have no problem hitting anything in the game at 95% accuracy eating meat. We also did JOL and i had no problem hitting it pretty much 90%+ and AV popped after and no problem hitting it also. Side note: A little dissappointed that 900+ attack and i couldn't hit AV that hard.

Anyhow I wanted to point out something that most people haven't really talked about but this Dex=ACC thing pretty much destroys the usability of madrigal i think. The 2Handers won't need it but the 1Handers might? Conflicts in picking optimal songs? My bard crys because it has madrigal merits =(.

AoshiZ
Gilgamesh

[VZX]

The accuracy tests I used to produce the accuracy formula are quite straightforward, 40 accuracy will increase a swing's chance to connect by 20% from what it would be without, the only cases where this isn't true is at the caps, since those are hardcoded limits you can't go above or below.

Its a very very simple formula, in a parse things like evasion buffs/debuffs and acc buffs/debuffs will throw it off a bit since different combinations will send you past the effective accuracy caps. So in practice if you were already near cap you don't gain 20%, but that's kinda self-evident, when acc% is capped adding acc+ doesn't do anything.

I only apply the formula on melee. I still can't agree with it on ranged.

[AoshiZ]

What's your penta gear look like?



EDIT: I went out to solo some sea puks for a bit. Penta thrust is garbage now. I was doing just as much with skewer. Penta's were 600(if I missed 1 hit) to 1000. Skewer was doing 800-1k. 800-900 with wheeling. Use that on harder mobs and the accuracy will just suck it up.

Mezraq
Tiphia Sting
Hecatomb Cap
Shadow Gorget
Ethereal Earring
Brutal Earring
Hecatomb Harness
Pallas Bracelets
Raja's Ring
Flame Ring
Forager's Mantle
Warwolf Belt
Conte Cosciales
Hecatomb Leggings

Polearm 8/8
Crit 8/8
STR 3/5

Crit 8/8 ? did i miss a crit expansion where we can put more in? ^^;

[RKenshin]

patch has given at least 40 and as high as 60 acc

Which 2her gets to 120 dex? I'd say 40-50 MAX bonus. And seeing as 40 acc ~ 20% parsed acc, I'd say it evened out to the 20% free dual wield delay reduction that 1hers were getting.

Because DEX builds don't exist? lol

Stacking you can get over 120 DEX without much difficulty regardless of race and job (maybe difficult on DRG, but not sure). Even without a DEX build most WARs are pushing around 100-110 total DEX just from the combination of Adaberk/Rajas/Byakkos.

While DEX builds were mostly a dual wield/MNK thing people have been trying out 2h DEX builds still.

[Amele]

patch has given at least 40 and as high as 60 acc

Which 2her gets to 120 dex? I'd say 40-50 MAX bonus. And seeing as 40 acc ~ 20% parsed acc, I'd say it evened out to the 20% free dual wield delay reduction that 1hers were getting.

you could probably get to 120 if you sacrificed other stats for it. I know sam can get to +60 dex without resorting to love halberd + torque (another +12)
askar head, pixie earring, osode, myo+1 hands, thunder/rajas, warwolf, haidate, sao+1 feet which is 128 with base dex at 75.

and gaxe/war certainly can get that high.

this would max your crit rate, too, I think. (at least it should against g.colibri. maybe not all mamool ja)

[Takie]

Funny how for 4 years light weapons did more dmg than heavy weapons and no one found it funny.

SE has a hidden, racist agenda. Samurai = japanese. Japanese = JPONRY. JPONRY = superior. Thus, SAM > every DD.

QFT.. SAM / MNK / NIN
Edited for clarity

yay for me :D

Personally getting out parsed by near 10% by a Samurai vs 2 maxed out war (one with no hauberk though) is too much

I could see them making it so that its equal but 10% is huge, but I guess you could say his sub was WAR and thats why because I am sure a MNK/WAR could maybe generate 5% more then a Ridill WAR. The problem with Samurai is they can sub WAR and still have Seigan which is very good.

I love the fact that SAM are so strong for HNM related events, but its a little bit of an insult to make it do so much more damage compared to someone who has gear thats somewhat hard to get. If I want my gear to be made trash over time I could go play WOW.

In their defense, I did keep Berserk & Hasso up the entire time, but I tried not to WS until after they did so I wouldn't get raped so much. Our white mage kept flashing things right after I WS. I did die once cause I got rushing drubbed in the face >_<; Also another thing I noticed, since my WS are one hit wonders, when the warriors rampage at 3% of the mob's HP, they don't get off all their hits, so they only hit for like 200-300, but when I WS at 1% of the mob's HP, I still get my full 1400 damage, even though the mob only has like 200 HP left, so I'm pulling 1200 damage out of my ass repeatedly to skew the parse

[Isiolia]

patch has given at least 40 and as high as 60 acc

Which 2her gets to 120 dex? I'd say 40-50 MAX bonus. And seeing as 40 acc ~ 20% parsed acc, I'd say it evened out to the 20% free dual wield delay reduction that 1hers were getting.

Assuming of course that any 1h automatically is /NIN and is wearing a Suppanomimi, at the very least. Not to mention the ATT bonuses and ability to wear ATT gear and eat ATT food to help per hit damage.

There are a good number of jobs in the game with their highest melee skill being a 1h weapon. Other than NIN, they won't necessarily have DW at their disposal. It's a single subjob thing. I don't see 1h getting buffed to compensate for Hasso on /SAM for 2h.

If there was a bone thrown to single-wielded 1h as well, then that'd be different. As it is, it seems like a "fix" for jobs parsing against a WAR/NIN, not the weapon classes themselves.

[Nameless]

Funny how for 4 years light weapons did more dmg than heavy weapons and no one found it funny.

SE has a hidden, racist agenda. Samurai = japanese. Japanese = JPONRY. JPONRY = superior. Thus, SAM > every DD.

QFT.. SAM / MNK / NIN
Edited for clarity

yay for me :D

Personally getting out parsed by near 10% by a Samurai vs 2 maxed out war (one with no hauberk though) is too much

I could see them making it so that its equal but 10% is huge, but I guess you could say his sub was WAR and thats why because I am sure a MNK/WAR could maybe generate 5% more then a Ridill WAR. The problem with Samurai is they can sub WAR and still have Seigan which is very good.

I love the fact that SAM are so strong for HNM related events, but its a little bit of an insult to make it do so much more damage compared to someone who has gear thats somewhat hard to get. If I want my gear to be made trash over time I could go play WOW.

In their defense, I did keep Berserk & Hasso up the entire time, but I tried not to WS until after they did so I wouldn't get raped so much. Our white mage kept flashing things right after I WS. I did die once cause I got rushing drubbed in the face >_<; Also another thing I noticed, since my WS are one hit wonders, when the warriors rampage at 3% of the mob's HP, they don't get off all their hits, so they only hit for like 200-300, but when I WS at 1% of the mob's HP, I still get my full 1400 damage, even though the mob only has like 200 HP left, so I'm pulling 1200 damage out of my ass repeatedly to skew the parse

I don't think it is that big of a deal to WS at 1% and get full damage. It is more accurate to parse the Sam/war that way so you get the idea of what your average WS is. As for War/nin ws at 1%, can't do anything about it, wish there is a way to really parse as if the mob has more HP.

The thing is, the reason alot of 2 handers use TP at end of the fight is to avoid using WS at the start of the next fight and overall lower the parse result. WS in the beginning of next fight would mean you have to seigan and go on defensive mode the whole fight while War/nin can just cut without worrying too much. So in the end i think it will be even.

[Takie]

Well, I would WS the mob to kill it, then just Meditate & rape the next one twice o.o;

[HadesBothari]

you could probably get to 120 if you sacrificed other stats for it. I know sam can get to +60 dex without resorting to love halberd + torque (another +12)
askar head, pixie earring, osode, myo+1 hands, thunder/rajas, warwolf, haidate, sao+1 feet which is 128 with base dex at 75.

and gaxe/war certainly can get that high.

this would max your crit rate, too, I think. (at least it should against g.colibri. maybe not all mamool ja)

Wow.. you learn something new everyday.. but.. do ppl actually do that? I mean practically you would never melee in most of that gear right? more like the best you could get (askar head(4)/pixie earring(3)/myo+1(7)/rings(10)/hidate(15)) is about 115?

[VZX]

I don't think it is that big of a deal to WS at 1% and get full damage. It is more accurate to parse the Sam/war that way so you get the idea of what your average WS is. As for War/nin ws at 1%, can't do anything about it, wish there is a way to really parse as if the mob has more HP.

The thing is, the reason alot of 2 handers use TP at end of the fight is to avoid using WS at the start of the next fight and overall lower the parse result. WS in the beginning of next fight would mean you have to seigan and go on defensive mode the whole fight while War/nin can just cut without worrying too much. So in the end i think it will be even.

I don't understand the logic
full damage on 1% mob HP definitely skew the parse, mob HP, and total damage.
RNG/WAR can skew the parse hard if they have this kind of playstyle

[Takie]

My point is I probably didn't outparse them by 10%, was less, I'd say 5~7%