Damage change thread

[megido]

epeen pride was hurt in last statement

as if a 100 HNMLs screamed in sadness at once.

Has nothing to do with e-peen, you're just a fucking mongoloid.

Funny you say that. A lot of your server reject managed to get fed up on your server and migrated to ours. If you ask me down syndrome is more problematic on your environment ... not mine.

[Ryko]

Are you done mouth breathing? Or do you want to spout some more retarded bullshit. I wanna be sure you have the grade-A-filter-purified-scented-for-your-pleasure douche out of your system before I bother wasting time on you. Normally I'd write some long ass essay for why you're wrong but anyone with half a brain and 2 eyes knows that already.

[AoshiZ]

Wait-- why exactly does holding a 2 hand weapon (with both hands mind you) not make sense that it should be more accurate as opposed to swinging a 1hander (with 2hands).

Some of the responses of the people here are plain ridiculous. Holding something lighter (with each hand) and swinging should not be more accurate than holding something with 2 hands. You have the advantage of dual wield reduction, and constant dot -- and honestly for the complaining people are just complaining because it's a hit on your pride that the old paradigm you excelled at now needs to be re-evaluated.

If you're so god damn smart and methodically augment your character through data then just find your new sweetspot. The update at the very least brought new variety of jobs out and viable for XP PTs and HNMing instead of relying on the same OLD JOB TEMPLATE from legacy.

GET OVER IT

Megido-cerb
75whm nin brd blm

The argument is why should 2H have more accuracy than 1H. The lighter weapon in one hand versus a super heavy weapon in two hands. So you think you would be more accurate with a GreatSword/Lance than a Rapier/Dagger?

Pre update it was more about swinging a weapon weight 10 pound and able to hit twice as fast and about 75% of the damage of what a weapon weight 20 pounds can do. So if the weapon weight 20 pound can't hit twice as hard, then the only way to make this game balanced is to allow it to have more accuracy, and indirectly result in eating meat to fully utilize the 2hand weapon base damage. Probably doesn't make sense that way, but whatever works I am all for it.

Tho, on TV and movie and stuff, you see the ppl with dagger always go mindlessly swinging but never connects. The fact that they are able to swing faster just means that they have more chance to hit, but the actual accuracy itself is about the same I would say.

Pick up a heavy weapon and swing it with one hand, and swing it with 2 hand, and ask yourself which makes you more accurate. Before the update, the damage and stuff is closer to, in reality, swinging a scythe with one hand, cuz you get no extra bonus for swinging a heavier weapon other than the base damage pre update.

Ok I'm sorry, but I answered your real life question with another real life question to allow you to have insight on the other side of the spectrum. Since people are trying to stray away from the real and since your arguement with the one hands and the two hands is getting carried to the point where its not going to be resolved, I'll give you my ingame reasons. Also side note but... your two hand argument with the pickup a heavy weapon and swing it in one hand then swing it in two assumes all weapons weight the same? (base damage was the difference between heavy weapons and light weapons... which leads me to assume your opinion was that this was not enough? fair enough)

1. ACC = DEX has broken alot of gear for two handers. Alot of gear that used to just provide accuracy benefits over others and make them diverse are now just obselete. (Examples: Aces Helm, Askar Zuchetto, Accuracy rings versus Dex rings, Osode was meant to be what it is now? Hecatomb used to not offer enough acc i felt but now its god massive amounts of acc)

2. Abilities. Why use Madrigal for 2Handers? I can hit Fafnir 95% now without sushi! Feint was awesome....

3. Food. 2handers can't customize their gear to eat all the varieties of food (sushi)

Overall, I just see a narrowing of my choices and customizability as well as not needing certain abilities from certain jobs. I personally don't like it. and I also liked not being so close to the cap... I hate being able to be at 999 Attack now and 95% accuracy at the same time on the hardest mobs... maybe they can increase the cap? =/

[Vedder]

Oddly enough, there is absolutely nothing assface gallant has done that I have not done. The quick retort was a sign that pride was hurt -- and the animosity from the update is because people now have to rethink as to how to become top tier.

lol... it's like the ghost of Takedown still lives on Cerberus.

[megido]

Cept it's not takedown. So who the fuck are you again?

[Khrno]

Megido seems like a funny guy, who wouldn't have been accepted into Dynasty, but of course Progeny is a different story.

[megido]

Correction -- the only thing funny here is the complaining -- and the quick biased responses from the people who think they know better. Whether I'm in dynasty or not is a separate issue -- something you can't judge because you do not see the benefit I provided for them.

[Ryko]

Correction -- the only thing funny here is the complaining -- and the quick biased responses from the people who think they know better. Whether I'm in dynasty or not is a separate issue -- something you can't judge because you do not see the benefit I provided for them.

Anyone with even a little common sense knows better than to argue about a fucking video game with real life examples.

And if you are in prog and you're talking about my "server rejects" then lol, I guess someone's bitter about stall wiping to khim with, what, 10? Twice in a row no less. Guess you can't app yourself someone with any skill, retard.

[Amele]

1. ACC = DEX has broken alot of gear for two handers. Alot of gear that used to just provide accuracy benefits over others and make them diverse are now just obselete. (Examples: Aces Helm, Askar Zuchetto, Accuracy rings versus Dex rings, Osode was meant to be what it is now? Hecatomb used to not offer enough acc i felt but now its god massive amounts of acc)

I'd argue that this change made 2h gear (and gear across the playerbase) *more* diverse. now you aren't stuck wearing haubergon/hauberk/ebody only (byrnie+1 is an option, askar is an option, osode is an option, etc etc) no longer does a haste built sam look identical to a haste built ninja outside of weapon choice, that sam is now wearing an askar body instead of a haub, etc.

before the patch you *had* to wear the accuracy gear or you just missed too much, you couldn't afford to miss when your hits were half as fast and only did 15-25% more.

2. Abilities. Why use Madrigal for 2Handers? I can hit Fafnir 95% now without sushi! Feint was awesome....

nonsense, no meat was as popular as sushi, now the options are more spread out. feint dies? boo hoo. tell it to aggressive aim.

3. Food. 2handers can't customize their gear to eat all the varieties of food (sushi)

you can't? last I checked if you went with sheer att/haste/str you would still be <80% accuracy against most things. it just now takes as much gear specialization for 2h to use sushi and it takes dw to use meat - just in the other direction. (meaning that the different classes will use different foods and gear for once.) it's certainly still an option if you choose to pursue it.

Overall, I just see a narrowing of my choices and customizability as well as not needing certain abilities from certain jobs. I personally don't like it. and I also liked not being so close to the cap... I hate being able to be at 999 Attack now and 95% accuracy at the same time on the hardest mobs... maybe they can increase the cap? =/

they did and have, your attack doesn't cap at 999, just the display does.
and don't worry, harder mobs are coming.

[megido]

No I just wanted to point out the fallacy of the idea.

You can't use the 1hand logic - because the other side of it can be argued also.

What's most important is the net effect of the update.

As such more job combinations are more viable now-- overall a positive thing. Variety is not so bad.

The resentment towards the patch is more on the side of the people who took such pride in excelling in the old system, only to have their precious house of cards crumble before them.

Adjust -- because the patch is more positive than negative.

Assface gallant or whatever his name was was quick to shoot it down... probably because a) superiority complex b) whatever pride or what not

Oddly enough, there is absolutely nothing assface gallant has done that I have not done. The quick retort was a sign that pride was hurt -- and the animosity from the update is because people now have to rethink as to how to become top tier.

You must have missed this. I'll even bold it for you.

[Ryko]

No I just wanted to point out the fallacy of the idea.

You can't use the 1hand logic - because the other side of it can be argued also.

What's most important is the net effect of the update.

As such more job combinations are more viable now-- overall a positive thing. Variety is not so bad.

The resentment towards the patch is more on the side of the people who took such pride in excelling in the old system, only to have their precious house of cards crumble before them.

Adjust -- because the patch is more positive than negative.

Assface gallant or whatever his name was was quick to shoot it down... probably because a) superiority complex b) whatever pride or what not

Oddly enough, there is absolutely nothing assface gallant has done that I have not done. The quick retort was a sign that pride was hurt -- and the animosity from the update is because people now have to rethink as to how to become top tier.

You must have missed this. I'll even bold it for you.

I saw it the first time, you're still a moron.

[Croaker]

Please stop with the real life arguments about what is easier to have accuracy with, among the many reasons why it's pointless/ludicris you have the fact that few/if anyone playing FFXI has attacked a living being with a sword/pole/axe/scythe in their life so how the fuck would we know?

It was the "real life arguments" that were driving the assumptions that 2 hand weapons were supposed to do be doing more damage than 1 hand weapons. Suddenly it is very convienient to disregard any "real life arguments" when the question is about accuracy.

If you want to know "how the fuck would we know" about accuracy vs size and weight...
Type your next response on your keyboard using a pencil to press the keys. Then try the same thing with a shovel. Which is more accurate? Which did more damage to your keyboard?

If we are to just disregard any realism on the basis that this is a fantasy game, then why not make darts the best weapon in the game and have them hit with the force of a nuclear exposion doing 100,000 AOE damage?

[Vedder]

Cept it's not takedown. So who the fuck are you again?

I never said it was Takedown... I know you're not, in fact!

But jumping on this board and running your mouth is very much in the Takedown "spirit".

As for who I am, it's right to the left of this post... or you can check the sig. If you knew enough to figure that out, but instead were trying to ask me to justify myself speaking, you can just STFU.

[megido]

Correction -- the only thing funny here is the complaining -- and the quick biased responses from the people who think they know better. Whether I'm in dynasty or not is a separate issue -- something you can't judge because you do not see the benefit I provided for them.

Anyone with even a little common sense knows better than to argue about a fucking video game with real life examples.

And if you are in prog and you're talking about my "server rejects" then lol, I guess someone's bitter about stall wiping to khim with, what, 10? Twice in a row no less. Guess you can't app yourself someone with any skill, retard.

Hate to break this to you but your Fairies that managed to make it to cerb-- had a good tank-- cept he ain't from your server. Oddly enough he left and went back to KoN. And Khim- lol. How little you know. This ain't a bragging thread.

[Ryko]

No one was bragging at all, you should be able to read your own words, correct? First you randomly join this thread talking about how weapons that you've likely never handled in any knowing capacity whatsoever should be more accurate than other weapons you've also never handled in any knowing capacity whatsoever. Ignoring that, you attempted to drag real life comparisons into a discussion about a game. After that fell through you whined that my e-peen was in danger (which is retarded for about 90 billion different reasons) then started talking about a shell that you're obviously bitter about.

[Lordender]

this thread sure as hell went into the shitter as little as 4 pages!

[aurik]

I blame Moguri.

[Bagel]

This thread is a good reminder that no matter how damage forumlae change, some things will always stay the same.

[megido]

The real life comparison was used as a parody to previous explanations why 1handers should be more accurate. If I didn't illustrate that clear enough that is a wrong in my part. We can't make such comparisons -- we can only play in the construct in which the game has been changed.

The update brings other jobs out there - it allows us to apply and configure our characters to fit the new damage paradigm. I am however at odds with people who complain about the update and using pseudo truths to try to justify why the update sucks or not.

That's fine really I don't care - to me the patch is a given. The landscape changed to the point where other jobs are now coming out of the woodwork because they are no longer shadowed by the template jobs. I think this at least brings variety to people who think too much in the box.

Top tier people will always excel -- maybe not initially -- but through research many will find a way to be top tier again. It's an innate drive.

But I wanted to shoot down all the people crying foul because honestly the ultimate decision is not up to you regarding what changes take effect. And overall as a collective, there is just more damage now -- and things will die faster now. Just because the grace wasn't handed to everyone doesn't make what we have now bad.

[AoshiZ]

1. ACC = DEX has broken alot of gear for two handers. Alot of gear that used to just provide accuracy benefits over others and make them diverse are now just obselete. (Examples: Aces Helm, Askar Zuchetto, Accuracy rings versus Dex rings, Osode was meant to be what it is now? Hecatomb used to not offer enough acc i felt but now its god massive amounts of acc)

I'd argue that this change made 2h gear (and gear across the playerbase) *more* diverse. now you aren't stuck wearing haubergon/hauberk/ebody only (byrnie+1 is an option, askar is an option, osode is an option, etc etc) no longer does a haste built sam look identical to a haste built ninja outside of weapon choice, that sam is now wearing an askar body instead of a haub, etc.

I understand your point in diversity among the smaller selection of items that are left. But reducing the necessity of one of the MAIN Stats in the game overall reduces choices. People weren't restricted to wear as much acc gear before and could eat sushi. Nobody forced people to wear anything. But the fact that a whole area of gear has little point of being equipped (for 2hander) is why i feel it is broken. I still see people wearing ebody over byrnie+1 or askar btw. Anyhow whether a group of classes deserves some kind of modification is opinion so this isn't really ever going to end but I no longer see why anyone wood equip a +5ACC over +5 DEX .... at least with attack there were large quantities on gear up to 20+ attack on some pieces to compare against 8 STR or something and one could make a tradeoff. ACC never really had large quantities on gear so now all gear with DEX is immediately comparable if not better. Since dex also improves critical hits.

Edit: grammar