Damage change thread

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Shut the fuck up, can we get some confirmation of exactly what changed?

[Neb]

AMEN

[layoneil]

But reducing the necessity of one of the MAIN Stats in the game overall reduces choices.

who defined that as a MAIN stat in the game?

one merit upgrade in Weapon Skill costs 3 merits max (that gives about 2 accuracy).
one merit upgrade in STR or DEX costs 9 merits max (and each upgrade is a singular increase).

according to SE, a single point of stat should be more valuable.

I still see people wearing ebody over byrnie+1 or askar btw.

give them a few months to get those Askars? Byrnie will probably never replace E Body, but it can replace some Haubergeons.

Anyhow whether a group of classes deserves some kind of modification is opinion so this isn't really ever going to end but I no longer see why anyone wood equip a +5ACC over +5 DEX ....

if your opinion was that DRKs and DRGs and Great Axe WARs were fine before this update, than your opinion is effectively null and void.

and who had the choice to use Thunder Rings before this? all the NINs, MNKs, THFs, and WAR/NINs will still use Woodsman and Sniper's.

[Amele]

Shut the fuck up, can we get some confirmation of exactly what changed?

kirschy did tests indicating that 2h pdif was now ~2.9 max and ~2.2 low with a mean about 2.5~ (which presumes a cRatio of approximately ~2.4-2.5 being the new cap) if the formulas are still substantively the same.

she reported crits capping in the area of 3.1~3.2 pdif


there is a possibility that the formulas have changed however, since H2H are reporting values that are inconsistent unless either their crits now cap at 3.1~ also, or they have approximately 3 more base damage.

reference

edit: it occurs to me that maybe the true pdif cap is still 3.0 but that 2h (like 1h) were never intended to be able to ceiling the function - in which case the range is (probably) 2.2 to 3.0 with a median about approximately 2.6 at a cRatio of 2.5, and things had just gone pear-shaped above that pre-patch.

crits then go to some value higher than that (possibly 3.25?) but probably not much higher. (basically just extending the formulas from before out to 2.5)

[XxSlusherxx]

Please stop with the real life arguments about what is easier to have accuracy with, among the many reasons why it's pointless/ludicris you have the fact that few/if anyone playing FFXI has attacked a living being with a sword/pole/axe/scythe in their life so how the fuck would we know?

It was the "real life arguments" that were driving the assumptions that 2 hand weapons were supposed to do be doing more damage than 1 hand weapons. Suddenly it is very convienient to disregard any "real life arguments" when the question is about accuracy.

No it's called Logic and Mathimatics

when a weapon with a D rating of DOUBLE another weapon hits for roughly 15% more dmg per hit somthing about the dmg formula isn't balanced

[AoshiZ]

PDIF Cap seems to be 805/256 = 3.14453125 from a couple hours of testing... =D

I'm not sure about this and i need to look into it more after i get home from work but although the PDIF scales to 3.0 on regular hits it seems to be capped earlier on Weapon skills making them all reduced in damage. Initial tests indicate that Sneak Attack is the only thing that can push it back up to the 3.144 PDIF. This may result in the usefullness of SA +WS again maybe ^^;

To Layoneil, I'm sorry what I meant by Main stats is all the stats. If they all of the sudden made Defense unimportant to tanking... for a Paladin I would feel the same way as well.
My opinion that DRG, DRK, WAR before the update as being ok? I'm sorry if you got that impression since I wanted this change just like everyone else. I just feel that the increased accuracy is a bit much. you can look me up on FFXI AH if you would like to know my main job. Anyhow my point is one thing and one thing alone "I can hit Everything very Easily now!!!!!" thats right... everything... that just doesn't feel right...

AoshiZ
Gilgamesh

[XxSlusherxx]

If they all of the sudden made Defense unimportant to tanking... for a Paladin I would feel the same way as well.

I don't see how it could get any worse

[AoshiZ]

If they all of the sudden made Defense unimportant to tanking... for a Paladin I would feel the same way as well.

I don't see how it could get any worse

good point! Maybe they should make that stat more effective =/.

[XxSlusherxx]

If they all of the sudden made Defense unimportant to tanking... for a Paladin I would feel the same way as well.

I don't see how it could get any worse

good point! Maybe they should make that stat more effective =/.

I've seen screens where people show getting hit in pld/nin gear vs. getting hit in pld/war gear it's noticable, but nobodys going to care unless utsememi becomes a lvl38 spell

[AoshiZ]

I've seen screens where people show getting hit in pld/nin gear vs. getting hit in pld/war gear it's noticable, but nobodys going to care unless utsememi becomes a lvl38 spell

My blu seems to get beat up pretty bad even with 800 defense cacoon =(. But ya i can see a difference as well

[Lordender]

they should make defense+VIT work alot better now that SE seems to of gotten it right with str and dex. I mean on past FF's i remember defense determined the range of damage a char got hit and VIT is what determined how much of that actually got through.

[XxSlusherxx]

they should make defense+VIT work alot better now that SE seems to of gotten it right with str and dex. I mean on past FF's i remember defense determined the range of damage a char got hit and VIT is what determined how much of that actually got through.

should take this elsewhere probly, but making vit function like a phlanx while def functions as a phys dmg -%(like wow) would be ideal imo

that would probly fuck up everything though, seeing as it's a totally departure from the current dmg formula

[Nagamaki]

Defense itself works (ratio), the problem happens when the level correction bonus mobs get is applied. You can have twice as much def as a mob has attack (ratio 0.5) but if the mob is Lv95, his cRatio is gonna be 1.5 anyway. To "fix" defense tanking, they'd just need to tone down the level correction bonus.

That has nothing to do with this patch though.

[Khrno]

Correction -- the only thing funny here is the complaining -- and the quick biased responses from the people who think they know better. Whether I'm in dynasty or not is a separate issue -- something you can't judge because you do not see the benefit I provided for them.

Anyone with even a little common sense knows better than to argue about a fucking video game with real life examples.

And if you are in prog and you're talking about my "server rejects" then lol, I guess someone's bitter about stall wiping to khim with, what, 10? Twice in a row no less. Guess you can't app yourself someone with any skill, retard.

Quoting this just because it wins the thread, awesome reference about the Cerberus HNM scene =D>

And you should heard about them wiping to Tiamat at 3%.



Anyway, the four punches topic has more information regarding the topic of this thread, I'll shut up and go back to sleep.

[BRP]

All I'd like is base stats not be effected by the DEX(and maybe STR) conversion ;/. 20% hit rate for doing nothing is pretty silly imo... I don't think it would be a big deal if it's just DEX=Acc on gear, because I think Acc gear gets hurt more by that +40acc~ bonus(Call me crazy, but at higher levels large amounts of DEX on a single piece is rarer than large amount of Acc. There are no +10 Dex hats or neckpieces for example). But it seems things are semi-balanced now? Well, whatever!

[Kaelan]

The only thing that really matters is whether or not the jobs affected by the change are balanced when compared to all the other jobs; if that is true, the details of what makes that balance possible are completly irrelevant, regardless of whether it "makes sense" or not

[Beckwin]

Ryko should be able to post some interesting pld/sam spinning slash results... I'm gonna need to do some experimenting, but gsword might be giving scythe a run for the money in merits, at least situationally (whereas pre all this patching, it wasn't really a contender in any merit situation- therin, renzoukan, whoever else plz don't argue this).

20% hit rate for doing nothing is pretty silly imo...

You aren't doing much to get 20%+ delay reduction from DW/martial arts either. Shit really is pretty balanced now.

[Lordender]

I see why they did dex= acc though for 2h weapons because if by any crazy situation a 2h'er missed 3 times on an exp mob they missed out on a whole mob when dealing with dualwielder's and mnk's.

[BRP]

You aren't doing much to get 20%+ delay reduction from DW/martial arts either. Shit really is pretty balanced now.

I guess that's somewhat true, but I think it's important to realize that comes from subjob/items instead of just base stats. And I don't think Haste/Attack Speed will ever be threatened into obsolete like Accuracy could be. But like I said before, if it's balanced, whatever!

[Max™]

Well, aside from the lack of +5 Dex rings at lvl 40, I couldn't see myself using a pure acc piece in a lot of slots.

PCC and Hauberk for +20 Pure Accuracy, another 21 Dex in my Tp/in progress Crit build for 21 Acc, goes up to 28 Dex for WS with a similar str increase, (I've tried more and less of both, so far this is just whats been producing the most consistent damage).

Do I love having Thunder/Rajas on my fingers now, hell yeah, Acc, Crit help, no - anything (well, -2 vit, lawl) but it's not really gamebreaking.

As was said, 20% more acc versus 20% faster swings, really elegant way to handle it.

Still, sometimes it has hit me "holy shit, I'm full timing a Dex ring."