another look at CoP rings post-patch

[Spekkio]

RDM has always been my main, and always will be my main. The enmity reduction on Tamas is nice, but generally a RDM will use MP, INT, and MND gear at different times through gear swaps. Therefore, you'll never get full use out of it.

This doesn't even make sense.. You would always get a banefit out of Tamas on RDM, no matter what spell you use or what gear you swap to.

I think Rajas is great and the reason I have it over Sattva is BLU and SAM. I rarely get to play those but really if I picked a ring based on playtime it would be Tamas for my BLM and I don't want that shit. Really though, unless you get to play your other jobs I don't think you need to change it.

Rajas is quite simply an amazing ring though for 2h users and especially SAM. Anyone playing a job that uses a 2h weapon alot and doesn't have a Rajas is kinda foolish.

i think what he's trying to say is that varous spells require various rings. if a rdm is trying to cast a black magic based enfeeb like gravity or blind, he would use an int ring, gaining no benefit from the mnd. vice versa for a slow or para spell. on the other hand, a melee, when using rajas can't wear a lightning ring when the game rolls his chance to hit, then switch to a flame when it rolls his damage. his argument is valid, but you still surrender several benefits. losing out on the 30 mp and enmity down, while not a game breaker, doesn't help. it's just a case of which job is more important to you. there's no right or wrong answer to it.

[Demitrius]

Yeah, that's basically it. You'll never use int+5 and mnd+5 at the same time on RDM. The +30 mp would only benefit me at the beginning of a fight and every 10 minutes thereafter, and the amount of mp you'll regen in that time from refresh effects makes it almost inconsequential in my eyes. The -enmity is certainly handy. On the Rajas, though, every swing and WS I make is going to be affected by every stat on the weapon. This is even more true with 2-handers.

I just decided that the Rajas was marginally better for me at the time, because I planned to level some DD classes to 75 and use them at least somewhat in endgame. Still play my RDM most of the time, but my SAM is almost 75 and I plan to start using it at events. So in my case, I am going to be using it for a 6-hit setup, on top of the benefits to the other jobs. That's why it works for me.

However, your mileage may vary. Like others have said, go with whichever one you're going to be using for endgame stuff. It's not worth giving up the ring you want for a while just to have another ring for leveling.

[Amele]

I thought you had to wait 27 days after getting one to get a new one.

As for the Rajas, not everyone has Nin, Rdm, Pld, Brd.

I have War 75, that's my only 75, and will be for the forseeable future, if just because I don't want to level a more desired job than the one I enjoy playing, and then never get to use my War.

So, for me, Rajas is a definite help in anything endgame I do, as my job is to kill things, the more effective I am at it, and every little bit helps, the better off I am.

you misunderstood me. you said that rajas isn't an exp only ring. I countered that, for certain people, rajas *is* an exp only ring, due to the nature of their jobs.

likewise, I think you would agree that for you, a tamas would be an exp only ring, since you wouldn't have a use for it endgame.

example: I took a bahlran's ring despite preferring the ulth, because I'm seeking a divisor (a better outside ring) and I will never be inside assault/salvage events on a melee job (since I'm co-leading my assault and salvage shell, I know this is a fact) so all the ulth would be to me is an alternate exp ring for levels 31-74 excluding every 5th level.

is ulth an exp ring? oh hell no, it's an amazing event ring.
is ulth an exp ring for me? yes.

[Max™]

Same, Rajas is a full time thing, I will be using it for everything, as a Great Axe Warrior, I just don't see it likely for something better (damn near a Haubergeon on your finger) to come around, I would sell a Sniper +1 if given one, but again I don't have any intention to level another job that would use it, though I'd like one for Monk, it is on hold while I work on War with my renewed love of it.

That's all I was saying, dismissing Rajas as a Exp only benefit, particularly with a 2h weapon, is really neglecting what a huge buff the ring is now for one slot.

[Aerides]

Or look at it this way. X months from now you're done with those other jobs and have 15 at 66+. What are you going to be most of the time? Pick the ring that you will wear the most.

my current jobs at 75 are RDM BLM WHM THF MNK WAR NIN

What was telling for me was the order you listed. That order screams Tamas. Put it in reverse it screams Rajas. But you didn't do that.

[Toshiko]

Or look at it this way. X months from now you're done with those other jobs and have 15 at 66+. What are you going to be most of the time? Pick the ring that you will wear the most.

my current jobs at 75 are RDM BLM WHM THF MNK WAR NIN

What was telling for me was the order you listed. That order screams Tamas. Put it in reverse it screams Rajas. But you didn't do that.

I really think im going to just stick with Tamas at this point. What everyone's been saying in this thread makes sense to me. I like my melee jobs a lot, I LOVE my monk, but when it comes down to it, Im a Red Mage through and through. Currently im on 67 SMN and 59 BRD so losing tamas right now would be stupid while im exping those. I love my mage jobs, although i did most of my merits to benefit both sides. 4hp 4mp, crit hit up, enemy crit hit down, etc.

Thanks for the input to everyone, its kind of solidified my original reasoning for switching to tamas in the first place.

And yea, i need a new non-animated sig

[Amele]

Same, Rajas is a full time thing, I will be using it for everything, as a Great Axe Warrior, I just don't see it likely for something better (damn near a Haubergeon on your finger) to come around, I would sell a Sniper +1 if given one, but again I don't have any intention to level another job that would use it, though I'd like one for Monk, it is on hold while I work on War with my renewed love of it.

That's all I was saying, dismissing Rajas as a Exp only benefit, particularly with a 2h weapon, is really neglecting what a huge buff the ring is now for one slot.

no one is dismissing it. that's the point I was trying to make; people who implied/stated exp ring in this thread meant either for the OP or for themselves; not in general.

[Michaera]

I skimmed, so I'm terribly sorry if I missed this above. :/ I didn't see anyone mention this, though...

Now here's the kicker- I'm going after maats cap. So i'm going to have to level more 2handed jobs, notably SAM and DRG. My DRK is 73 as of today,

Bear in mind when you make this decision that you don't actually get the 5 STR 5 DEX 5 ACC 5 ATK out of the Rajas until... 70? 75? I can't remember, but you certainly don't get it at 37, which I imagine is where those jobs are presently. For your purposes, a Sniper's/Woodsman's/Jaeger (which you probably own already) would probably be better or just as good until you got high enjoy for the Rajas to really matter, and by that point you're nearly done with the jobs anyhow.

Stick with that Tamas!

[Max™]

At 45, Rajas is 3 Str/Dex/Acc/Att.

Coupled with 2h getting base Dex benefits, I can't say I wouldn't use it full time unless I had Sniper +1/Divisor/Mar's Ring/Toreador in some combination, and even then I'd probably sell off one of those and use the Rajas anyway.

[Ciaran]

Hmm, I leveled WAR with Rajas from 37 to 75, and I never had accuracy issues. Not enough to merit removing my Rajas Ring in favor of another acc ring. I'm also a RDM main for my HNMLS, but, like others have said I took Rajas because I can use all of it's stats at all times. Tamas I can only use one of it's stats at any given time, and there are rings comparable to it for MND/INT and other rings which are better for MP. But all that's been said before and I won't rehash it now.

Something that hasn't been said is, there is another ring in the game that blows Tamas away, in my opinion, for Red Mage end game - Omega Ring. (+3 INT/MND/CHR and +3 Magic Accuracy. Obtainable through Ampoules of Therion Ichore. And yes, I know, most dynamis mobs and kings don't need the Magic Accuracy, but trying to land Slow 2 on Cerberus or Khimera is such a bitch, which is where this ring shines. Also with landing Sleep on Kindred Paladins in Dyna-Xarcabard.)

Toshiko, I am going to go out on a limb here and assume your linkshell regularly does Einherjar. Once you've built up enough points to get Omega Ring, you might want to consider swapping out your Tamas for Omega in your build and getting the Rajas so, if you're asked to come as a DD job to a HNM, you have Rajas. By then, hopefully you'll have finished leveling BRD and SMN to 75 and can make the swap easily enough. You *could* go Tamas/Omega, but going Omega/XXXX on RDM allows you to go Rajas/Sniper on your DD jobs and then everything is pimped out.

[Spekkio]

one thing worth mentioning is that rajas scales better to low levels than tamas or sattva rings, since on the t/s rings, hp/mp is variant across levels while on r both the storetp and the subtle blow remain constant from 30-75. then again, this brings up the comment of "lolsubtleblowonnonchariots" so that argument might actually work backwards.

[Septimus]

Something that hasn't been said is, there is another ring in the game that blows Tamas away, in my opinion, for Red Mage end game - Omega Ring. (+3 INT/MND/CHR and +3 Magic Accuracy. Obtainable through Ampoules of Therion Ichore. And yes, I know, most dynamis mobs and kings don't need the Magic Accuracy, but trying to land Slow 2 on Cerberus or Khimera is such a bitch, which is where this ring shines. Also with landing Sleep on Kindred Paladins in Dyna-Xarcabard.)

Omega Ring doesn't really blow Tamas away. I wouldn't put stock in 3 magic accuracy helping to land Slow II on anything that you cannot land it on already- even with an 11 Warlock's Roll I still had a ton of trouble landing Slow II on Khimaira and one would hope that was a lot more than 3 magical accuracy.

With that said, I still got a Balrahn's Ring for the refresh in Assault, and because I am a total whore for slight improvements to spells that are not affected by MND/INT. >_>

[OctavoGilgamesh]

Something that hasn't been said is, there is another ring in the game that blows Tamas away, in my opinion, for Red Mage end game - Omega Ring. (+3 INT/MND/CHR and +3 Magic Accuracy.

Has uses yeah, blows away no imo. On Khim your generally going to be es / max mind that slow II anyways, so why give up 2 mnd for 3 macc? I'd say it's the best ring for grav, silence, bind, etc.
It would add 2 inv spots for me, but it would be cool for a max enf skill macro to use Omega and Balrahn's Ring would give you 7macc and 3mnd/int.

[Ciaran]

Different lsmate of mine traded out +4/+5 MND for +4 Magic Accuracy (one of the other new rings) and started landing Slow and Paralyze alot more consistently on Khimera.

So, yeah, the +Magic Accuracy does make a difference, more so than 1-2 more to a stat.

I should also note that most often our linkshell uses RDM/DRK to stun Khimera's Fulminations or Cerberus's Gates of Hades. So ES is not an option.

[Septimus]

Different lsmate of mine traded out +4/+5 MND for +4 Magic Accuracy (one of the other new rings) and started landing Slow and Paralyze alot more consistently on Khimera.

So, yeah, the +Magic Accuracy does make a difference, more so than 1-2 more to a stat.

I guess they changed how magic accuracy works then.

I wouldn't put stock in 3 magic accuracy helping to land Slow II on anything that you cannot land it on already- even with an 11 Warlock's Roll I still had a ton of trouble landing Slow II on Khimaira and one would hope that was a lot more than 3 magical accuracy.

[Ciaran]

Maybe.

We were capable of landing it beforehand without the aid of ES, but it would take several casts to do so. The additional +4 MACC seemed to cause it to require far fewer casts, because he hit Slow on it 4-5 times in a row with 3 RDM's spamming it when it was down.

Either way, I wouldn't write off MACC as being worthless, especially not on those fights. That being said, I also wouldn't go out and get max MACC gear, either. There's got to be a good balance between +Skill, +Stat, and +MACC. But a piece like Omega Ring which combines two of those - stats and MACC, is a pretty sweet little deal. I'd personally prefer it over Tamas.

[Lordwafik]

I have the same dilemma that you have of tama v rajas, except instead of having 2hander, I have mandau.

At the end, I stuck with tamas because it's a nice little ring and I'm on RDM more than anything (and unlike alot of RDM, I actually like to play it!) . For me, the Rajas would be a WS ring onry anyway, so it wasn't really a big deal. Rajas would be nice to TP in low eva mobs, like demons in Xarca, colibris, or maybe the new expansion, but hardly different enough to get it over my tamas.

People who argue the whole "omgz you dun uz INT n MND at once" are silly. Melee and Mages aren't the same breed, therefore it's not really an argument. Especially for someone who's aiming for a Maat's cap, and also somone who wants to be an optimal RDM, the last thing you'd want is more inventory room (MND rings INT rings MP rings blah) when one of those could take the place of them all. Wheras other melee jobs pretty much can share rings. My THF / BST / BLU use the same rings, hell even my lowbies used the same rings together. If you're gonna be hopping between mages a bunch then even more reason to pick Tamas.

If you are gonna be a serious 2h user , get rajas (when you're in the 70s), however if you're gonna just level them and gtfux then just buy thunder rings.


Edit : Magic acc is definitely not worthless, especially in slots that don't take too much away from you. I use my morri cuffs while debuffing hard things and now i'll use Bal ring too. If i'm gonna resist, that MND / INT is gonna be useless anyway, I'd rather help let it stick (yes I know int/mnd help to a degree, but I don't beleive as much as magic acc do).

[Septimus]

Maybe.

We were capable of landing it beforehand without the aid of ES, but it would take several casts to do so. The additional +4 MACC seemed to cause it to require far fewer casts, because he hit Slow on it 4-5 times in a row with 3 RDM's spamming it when it was down.

Either way, I wouldn't write off MACC as being worthless, especially not on those fights. That being said, I also wouldn't go out and get max MACC gear, either. There's got to be a good balance between +Skill, +Stat, and +MACC. But a piece like Omega Ring which combines two of those - stats and MACC, is a pretty sweet little deal. I'd personally prefer it over Tamas.

Magic Accuracy is not worthless, but it is also not miraculous. Certain mobs (Shijin, Hydra, Cerberus, Khimaira) are just not meant to be enfeebled normally. From the first time I ever fought Genbu until now I have gained at least 46 enfeebling skill and I have found no appreciable difference in my ability to stick enfeebles to the Shijin. Genbu, Sieryu, Suzaku, and Byakko all pop as level 88-90, but so is Fafnir, and most Red Mages can enfeeble Fafnir in their sleep. Nidhogg pops at least at level 90, he's no problem to enfeeble. CoP wyrms pop at level 95, generally no problem to land enfeeble that they are not strong against. (Except for Ouryu, he can be a bastard sometimes.)

So I guess my point is that the mobs that we cannot land enfeebles on normally are designed that way for one reason. Square hates Red Mages. No amount of magical accuracy is going to fix that.

[Ciaran]

Fix? No. No amount of gear or MACC will allow you to stick Slow 2 on Khimera or Cerberus as easily as we do on Fafnir. But, it will help close the gap and decrease the number of attempts needed to stick it. In fights like those, that's the most important thing. So, I'll gladly trade out 2 of a certain stat for +3 MACC, or +4 on the Bal. Ring. Especially on Khimera, where it can resist stuns.

[Spekkio]

Fix? No. No amount of gear or MACC will allow you to stick Slow 2 on Khimera or Cerberus as easily as we do on Fafnir. But, it will help close the gap and decrease the number of attempts needed to stick it. In fights like those, that's the most important thing. So, I'll gladly trade out 2 of a certain stat for +3 MACC, or +4 on the Bal. Ring. Especially on Khimera, where it can resist stuns.

the one use for a chausible in existance! the day you can get sept in one is the day i die laughing though. ^^