Einherjar: Wing/Tier 3

[benny]

Is there something I'm missing about leeches? For some reason, whenever we get them, they are little destroyers of fucking worlds to us. Sunday we got a T2 with 24 leeches and Corse boss and could not even make it to the boss, and we've gotten 12 of them on T3s before that were going flawlessly until the little buggers popped, and they timed us out before we could even attempt the boss.

Edit:errr don't mind me, I missed part of your post. Never noticed leeches having particularly more HP than other mobs, so really not sure...

[Neosutra]

Is there something I'm missing about leeches? For some reason, whenever we get them, they are little destroyers of fucking worlds to us. Sunday we got a T2 with 24 leeches and Corse boss and could not even make it to the boss, and we've gotten 12 of them on T3s before that were going flawlessly until the little buggers popped, and they timed us out before we could even attempt the boss.

Our healers can never keep up with the curaga and erase spam, no matter what jobs we use. WHM, RDM, even with a couple SCHs it doesn't matter, we're always out of MP after like 7-8 of them and have to just ride out the last batch. They always seem to have more HP than the other waves too, so our usual "stun and own it before it uses a tp move" doesn't work. For all the TP moves they have, they sure love acid mist.

I've never seen anyone mentioning having a hard time with them, but I think, short of the massive HP dahaks, they are the worst thing we've encountered...even Logis and Draugars go smoother now. Does anyone else have trouble with these?

Whats your setup? Leeches shouldnt be that bad of a problem honestly. If you are blunt heavy, or arent balancing your parties with enough support, I could see them sucking a bit.

[Marcicus]

Whats your setup? Leeches shouldnt be that bad of a problem honestly. If you are blunt heavy, or arent balancing your parties with enough support, I could see them sucking a bit.

This. As long as your melees are getting constantly erased then leeches are cake. Also, look at your party setups. If you have a super DD party with a brd/cor/your best DDs and you have another DD party that has some nonsense like 5 DDs and one mage, you're screwing yourself over. Balance is key, especially in T3.

[Yugl]

Is there something I'm missing about leeches? For some reason, whenever we get them, they are little destroyers of fucking worlds to us. Sunday we got a T2 with 24 leeches and Corse boss and could not even make it to the boss, and we've gotten 12 of them on T3s before that were going flawlessly until the little buggers popped, and they timed us out before we could even attempt the boss.

Our healers can never keep up with the curaga and erase spam, no matter what jobs we use. WHM, RDM, even with a couple SCHs it doesn't matter, we're always out of MP after like 7-8 of them and have to just ride out the last batch. They always seem to have more HP than the other waves too, so our usual "stun and own it before it uses a tp move" doesn't work. For all the TP moves they have, they sure love acid mist.

I've never seen anyone mentioning having a hard time with them, but I think, short of the massive HP dahaks, they are the worst thing we've encountered...even Logis and Draugars go smoother now. Does anyone else have trouble with these?

If your healers can't erase fast enough, then you next best option is to just have everyone on the same leech. We tend to do that on mobs that have heavy ATT down simply because it's more important to kill the mob than it is to avoid AoEs. Maybe when you're down to about five mobs or less you can use groups, but generally speaking on leeches, Wivre, and Buffalo, it's much easier to just assist one or two tanks (WAR tanks).

[Sonomaa]

einherjar isnt one of those "Ill come on whatever job I want to" events like some retarded linkshells I see. It has to be balanced and controlled properly. When I hear about fuckers showing up to dynamis and limbus on shittarded jobs and you have 5 melee 1 healer I want to stab the world for incompetance. Einherjar especially shows you that its simply not possible to do that, you have to have 100% committed players doing the best on their job, not always the job they want to be on but the best job for the group.

[Grieverao]

einherjar isnt one of those "Ill come on whatever job I want to" events like some retarded linkshells I see. It has to be balanced and controlled properly. When I hear about fuckers showing up to dynamis and limbus on shittarded jobs and you have 5 melee 1 healer I want to stab the world for incompetance. Einherjar especially shows you that its simply not possible to do that, you have to have 100% committed players doing the best on their job, not always the job they want to be on but the best job for the group.

This^

I try to excercise this ethos in all my events, and it's gotten to a point now where everyone knows this, and understands it. And we rape shit :D

[Sprint]

Our ls assigns peoples jobs to avoid that problem. Alliance setup typically:
melee alliance:
whm, rdm, brd, dd, dd, dd
whm, rdm, brd, dd, dd, dd
whm, rdm, brd, dd, dd, dd

pld/blm alliance:
whm, rdm, brd, pld, pld, mule
cor, sch, blm, blm, blm, blm
cor, sch, blm, blm, blm, blm or 2nd mule

use plds to pull and support sleepers. pretty good balance of melee damage, magic damage, and support.

What causes the hp variation on mobs? Got screwed 2 runs in a row by the super dragons with 50k hp, got them again 3rd run and they had less than half that much hp and died as easy as any other mob.

[Dammerung]

whm cor brd >>>> whm rdm brd

I bring like.. 1 RDM to all runs, and their job is just really refresh PLD and chainstun on boss.

hp variation seems to at least be partially affected by total number of mobs, or it might just be completely random!

[Sprint]

whm cor brd >>>> whm rdm brd

I bring like.. 1 RDM to all runs, and their job is just really refresh PLD and chainstun on boss.

hp variation seems to at least be partially affected by total number of mobs, or it might just be completely random!

only have 2 cor in the ls, trying to recruit more, but not a very popular job on my server.

[Dammerung]

don't put them with BLM then, give them to melee

[Gtype954]

we dont use any PLDs, sometimes we use 1 PLD. We like to work on speed and that means bringing lots of DD and of course some very well geared mostly taru blms. sch is a beast in every event these days the stoneskinga and the enspell-ga really helps with offense and defense greatly. SCH sometimes alternates to give weather spells.
I'm not a fan of BRDs in the melee party for our setup. There is about 34 ppl and 4 BRDs. we only have 1 burn mage party of about 5 blms 1 rdm.
We throw on 4 songs and cor rolls if we have cors, all the sams and /sams use meditate, they shinkoku(however its spelled) the other DDs who cant meditate like mnk and... guess just mnk. Before entering.

- Warriors must have tomahawk merited, and
-Drgs must have angon.

-BRD is better with melee songs then mage songs so BRD is melee support Job. (March song)
-COR beats Brd on buffs for the mage department but not on the melee so if we have CORs we throw 2 on the mage party. Wizard roll, Evokers Roll, Schs roll, and Warlocks Roll on a fully merited Taru BLM is just godly. (refresh Mattk, macc, conserve MP.)

Mages usually always bring Yag drinks and pies and we almost always get the treasure box bird which drops ethers, 5tic refresh drinks, a bunch of other crap.

Swapping out is your friend and I have never heard of a gorup who beat all 9 chambers without ever swapping Players.

-Swap brds for 4 songs or for 2 songs in each party if brds are low.
-Swap Cors to get 4 dice rolling on the mage side, If you are quick enough and it wont distract you too much, try to get 1 roll in on the melee side)
-Swap To random Deal Warriors or red mages if one of those jobs is not in your party.
-Swap To wild card the DD party instead of the mage party.
-Swap the Whm to devotion a low MP blm or another whm if thats even possible.


To me, Einherjar Revolves around swapping. A good swap group can beat lower tiers with only 2 Brds and 1 alliance.

While an UNBALANCED group of 25ish can lose without a proper swapping.
This is speaking of course for average geared ppl. We beat Tier I with 25 ppl and 15 mins left. We beat Tier IIs with 10 mins left and we beat Tier IIIs with about 1-2 mins left and the boss in Tier III should die within 1 min each time cause thats usually the time You have to fight it.
Swapping isnt needed for Tier I or II, But I honestly Never seen a Tier III with our setup won without the swap method.

[Dammerung]

Swapping out is your friend and I have never heard of a gorup who beat all 9 chambers without ever swapping Players.

-Swap brds for 4 songs or for 2 songs in each party if brds are low.
-Swap Cors to get 4 dice rolling on the mage side, If you are quick enough and it wont distract you too much, try to get 1 roll in on the melee side)
-Swap To random Deal Warriors or red mages if one of those jobs is not in your party.
-Swap To wild card the DD party instead of the mage party.
-Swap the Whm to devotion a low MP blm or another whm if thats even possible.


To me, Einherjar Revolves around swapping. A good swap group can beat lower tiers with only 2 Brds and 1 alliance.

While an UNBALANCED group of 25ish can lose without a proper swapping.
This is speaking of course for average geared ppl. We beat Tier I with 25 ppl and 15 mins left. We beat Tier IIs with 10 mins left and we beat Tier IIIs with about 1-2 mins left and the boss in Tier III should die within 1 min each time cause thats usually the time You have to fight it.
Swapping isnt needed for Tier I or II, But I honestly Never seen a Tier III with our setup won without the swap method.

Fuck swapping. Been doing Ein since Nov '07 and the only swap we do is BRD for boss zerg.

I can't recall the last run we lost. Lost a few in the early days, but that was still learning the event and how to best approach certain bosses (eg: behemoth).

WHM/SCH BRD COR DD DD DD - Most DD will sub nin, but a few can get away with /SAM if they know how to use it. Sometimes a SAM/WAR sneaks in too. 2 of these parties.

RDM/DRK PLD PLD BRD DD DD - Misc party. PLD pulls and helps on crowd control. PLD is useful if you get Behe or Chairguy boss, tank really helps there depending on your approach.

BLM5 BRD or some such, generally have 7~8 BLM per run.

Mule party. 3 odin mules, then usually 1~2 2box for feather.

[Arthars]

when swapping gets complicated, it goes down to being redundant

and i doubt it is that necessary to swap that many to win a 30 min event that, really, does not require swapping

and for newbies reading this thread, the swap method you guys proposed kinda cause headexplosion to them

keep it simple and help the new shells out. not create more trouble ^^

i doubt anyone can swap well for their first few events. the key here is not swapping, is give out standard, meaningful advice to new shells so they can have a good start to the wing, and eventually they can improve from there(thats when swapping come in)

[Arthars]

Swapping out is your friend and I have never heard of a gorup who beat all 9 chambers without ever swapping Players.

Yes, my group dont swap since we started
http://mectradegroup.com/FFXI/odinMustDie

dont make fun of my behe strat pls. thats my 3 mins work

[Suiram]

I don't doubt that people can win without BRD swapping. But I would seriously be surprised that if those same groups didn't clear it even faster and easier if they tried it (assuming a few runs of practice where the BRDs and PT leaders become accustomed to swapping, it isn't the kind of thing that always works perfectly right away).

For what's it's worth, we set up PTs like this 90% of the time:
3 pts of DDx4 RDM BRD (melee pts)
1 PT of BLMx4 RDM BRD (blm pt)
1/2 PT of me, RDM, excess BLM if any, sometimes a guy who only has PLD levelled, etc (puller/whatever pt)

The RDMs in blm- and puller-pts sub /drk. One DD spot in each melee pt can be COR, this makes it easier to setup PTs in case another melee logs in at the last minute, you can put them in that spot, move the cor to BLM pt, and move the BRD from BLM pt to puller PT, or whatever.

First two melee pts ally, and one brd swaps between them playing marches, the other minuets. The 3rd melee pt allies with BLM PT, and their brds swap playing marchx2 minuetx2 for melee pt, whatever for blm pt (usually marchx2 balladx2). For the boss, the 3rd melee pt drops from that ally and joins the other 2 pts, and those 3 brds do a 6x song SV rotation.

I say 90% of the time because occasionally we have way more people (like full 36 with mules) or way fewer (like 18~20 ppl). In the case of way more, we add a 4th melee PT, have brds swap in pairs between two of the 4 pts, and then for boss do a SV 4 brd, 3 swap, 6 song rotation which is tedious to explain here. Also occasionally we only have enough for 2 melee pts, so we have them swap their brds for regular mobs, and they get blms' brd for boss 6 song rotation.

[heartslaught]

Our group also doesn't do brd swapping, nor do I believe any ls on Hades actually practices the tactic. The only real difficulty we've had recently are on certain tier 2s where something happens and we get screwed over for whatever reason (read: slimes, corse boss being an ass, or just short on people) but even then it's rare. Tier III doesn't really bother us once we got our speed down, and it's been a while since we've lost one (in recent memory, only when behemoth has appeared).

Honestly, unless your group is damned efficient at it, brd swapping is more hampering than helpful imo. Yes, extra songs are great, but when they are buffing and not sleeping and mobs decide to beat down our plds all at once (read, multiple -ga III class spells hitting at once on a pld or group of them) then extra songs mean nothing.

Having a strong call speed, and people who can optimize their job's potential are the keys to winning any einherjar tier and Odin. Simplicity is your friend there, and it's needs beaten into skulls.

(Final note: we've done bard swapping, but with meh results. The attention required distracts from jobs performing key functions, and violates the basic KISS principle. So yes, I'm criticizing it because I've seen it, and shrugged it off.)

[Drex]

Make a macro for each bard you're supposed to invite, it's really quite easy to do rotation. 2x march + 2x minuet will make you kill faster, no matter how pimp your melee are. If your party leads really suck, you can have the bards make macros that send a tell to the next party leader when they drop from party too.

We run with 4 bards, so 3 in melee ally rotating and one in tank party. The one in tank party does ballad+march and sleeps, the ones in the melee ally rotate. WHMs help out with repose on light sleep only waves, rdms are sub blm except for one /drk so they sleepga the dark sleepable waves. Guess it depends on your setup, like everything else.

[heartslaught]

Our setup

3+ plds with traditional tank support, and usually our puller
2 or 3 rdm/drks spread throughout second ally
3x DD parties with a x4 DD+BRD+WHM setup (whole first ally)
1 blm party
1 misc/ranger party

Pretty much, we pull a horde or use quick pulling methods and then lock down the mobs, then proceed to plow through the mobs as fast as we can. We have excellent callers who keep them down time between kills to near zero, and plus some of us come ranger (I'm required on it as I tend to go full acc and eat meat in here... yeah, I parse very high, and usually have a bard to support with a single prelude if acc is being bitchy) mainly for acids bolts and/or the ability to splatter mobs with 2k+ sidewinders/slug shots.

Our idea is we treat this how we treat dynamis, which is constant kill speed with no down time. Since we are NOT an HNM shell, our tactics probably differ than most shells who have aegis/g horn/and other DD relics at their disposable. We don't have that stuff(well, outside shandreax who has two relics, but he has lots of gil...), so we compensated in other ways to make it work, and it works very well.

In short, there is no one method to making this work, but there exist tried and proven methods like this that just shine once you do use them. We busted our asses to make these tactics work, and learning the chambers. In the end, it's been worth it.

[dhearic]

I don t really like brd swapping during the waves, we do it only for boss~. For some kind of mobs, only brd can sleep them, and i think it s better to have them focus on that, than spamming the song.
When i m on, brd, i usually start with night/troub on the melee, then focus on the sleep / elegy / dispel.

For the message above, 3+ pld seems quite a lot, but well, it always depends of what those people other job 75 have~. We usually got 1 or 2 pld which are the puller, and invincible when zerging boss.

[Farseer]

Just wondering why CORs do better with 2handers? noob post ><