Einherjar: Wing/Tier 3

[Kidnoftle]

Ok, another question for t3:

I know the basic strat for chair dude, Motsoginirr (sp), but I want to know how ls' start the fight. I ask this because everytime I've tried to pull on pld and just ramp+sent and hold till sleeps get off I get raped. We tried sending in 2 blms and a brd next with me right behind but something similar happened.

Would it be best to have 2 blms run up to the front and then have 2 other blms circle around to the back and time sleep to try and get all of them in one cast round?

[Vedder]

Ok, another question for t3:

I know the basic strat for chair dude, Motsoginirr (sp), but I want to know how ls' start the fight. I ask this because everytime I've tried to pull on pld and just ramp+sent and hold till sleeps get off I get raped. We tried sending in 2 blms and a brd next with me right behind but something similar happened.

Would it be best to have 2 blms run up to the front and then have 2 other blms circle around to the back and time sleep to try and get all of them in one cast round?

THF PD or PLD Invincible and tag Chair Dude, demons come running to camp, begin elemental seal sleepga II order, send Chair Dude off w/ the kite team and start raping demons w/ melees.

[donnie]

Ok, another question for t3:

I know the basic strat for chair dude, Motsoginirr (sp), but I want to know how ls' start the fight. I ask this because everytime I've tried to pull on pld and just ramp+sent and hold till sleeps get off I get raped. We tried sending in 2 blms and a brd next with me right behind but something similar happened.

Would it be best to have 2 blms run up to the front and then have 2 other blms circle around to the back and time sleep to try and get all of them in one cast round?

we keep it simple , send your mule ur using to collect feathers, and let him aggro any demon and run back or die there it doesnt matter , just stay at entrance and wait for the horde of demons to run to you. just have the PLD infront with sentinel up. now blms and rdm/blm behind the pld will be spamming sleepga 1 , sleepga II , thats it .. they dont nuke they dont stun , they just use sleepga.

the control PT or rather PLD+BLU rotate kiting chair dude. thats it.

[vitali]

Ok, another question for t3:

I know the basic strat for chair dude, Motsoginirr (sp), but I want to know how ls' start the fight. I ask this because everytime I've tried to pull on pld and just ramp+sent and hold till sleeps get off I get raped. We tried sending in 2 blms and a brd next with me right behind but something similar happened.

Would it be best to have 2 blms run up to the front and then have 2 other blms circle around to the back and time sleep to try and get all of them in one cast round?

We've gotten this boss our last two odin climbs. After SV rotation, we have a pld run in, senti, ramp, etc, and get hate on everything, blms have an ES sleepga order (we usually have 5-7 blms), and bards spam lullabys as much as they can. While everything's being slept, the pld takes the dverger to the opposite side of the chamber with a whm and rdm as support. As long as he keeps him far enough away, the demons are a joke. Melee 2hr the first mobs so the first few die quick.

We target them BLM > DRK > WAR (there's a list of name/jobs on wiki, so you're caller will have to either memorize them, have a list, or be able to bring it up quick).

[Kidnoftle]

The problem is that I (pld) get dropped fast; t4's along with multiple melee hits and draw in on the boss makes my hp 0 pretty fast.

The mule run in and run back strat doesn't make much sense to me since I was under the impression that as soon as you pulled one demon all of them link and the boss draws you in, is there something I'm missing?

Ultimately I suppose I'll just have to hound my blms to sleep faster.

[Neosutra]

Ya, sleep faster, cure faster, and make proper use of sentinal/rampart.

Draw in will happen, so it isnt like your mages wont know where you'll be standing 2 seconds after aggro.

[turtler]

My group doesn't bard swap ever, and we have never taken a PLD to any einherjar run except Odin. That being said, our keys to being successful are crowd control, a quick caller, and melee that can make use of a quick caller.

BLM in our group are mainly worried about sleepga and keeping themselves alive. On mobs that are highly resistant to sleep they slack a bit and help the brds. Bind and Grav help a ton, when those timers are done either rebuff or nuke. BRDs should focus on using finale immediately on mobs that generally have ice spikes, and keeping songs on/horde. BRDs using finale efficiently makes a big difference.

Have someone as the designated caller, he doesn't need a worthless macro in /l chat or anything. He just needs to switch mobs before the current one dies. This way when the mob dies a melee can type "/assist Callerdude" and they can immediately start on the next mob. Melee should learn to love the /assist command.

If we get stupid chair boss dude then usually I(drk/nin for tier3 usually) and our resident BLU/nin(puller/sleeper/aoe def down) will kite it with the help of a single rdm. He doesnt hit hard with a decent dmg - setup. Only worry is his magic, which pretty much one shots me if it hits. However, he is just as easily kited weakened as unweakened if you have the help of another person. Last time we got him I died 3 times while kiting but it was under control the whole time with the help of the BLU(draw-in + ga3 for 1700 blows.) I keep hate off the rdm with typical stun/bind/sleep1/sleep2. Pretty easy to keep him occupied while the alliance takes care of demons.

Edit: To start the fight, usually the BLU just pulls them and a BLM is ready with sleepga2. This will hit most of them without the BLU dying if the BLM is prepared. The BLM demons usually lag behind but thats fine since we fight those first anyways. Make sure your caller knows the names of the BLM demons(found on wiki) so that you can knock them out quick. Them waking up and doing sleepga2/thundaga 3 is an annoyance.

[Kidnoftle]

I know this is going to start a shitstorm but I honestly can't figure out why a ls would opt not to brd rotate. My group runs in with 20-24 people tops and if it wasn't for bard rotations we would never have cleared t2 lol. It just seems like you get a lot more bang for your buck and could give yourself grace time for mistakes if you have 6 songs up on all melees. I realize my ls hasn't cleared odin yet etc etc but I would imagine brd rotations would easily shave off 5minutes of your normal kill time.

Not inditing you or anything, just wondering that when given the option (and if your ls can get to and clear odin you obviously have some clue as to what your doing I hope) why do you opt out of a brd rotation? Too hectic?

[Suiram]

I know this is going to start a shitstorm but I honestly can't figure out why a ls would opt not to brd rotate.

Every couple months this comes up. The two sides of the argument resolve as follows. One group says, "Our LS doesn't use BRD swaps and we win every zone. Having swaps just complicates things and adds more chances for people to fuck up. If you need BRD swaps to win, you suck." The other group says, "Having a few people play two songs, drop party, and join a new party every minute or two is not compicated. BRD swaps make runs go faster, and if your LS can't handle something that simple, you suck."

So in conclusion, everyone sucks, regardless of whether or not they use swaps, so just do what works best for your LS.

[Drex]

True key to winning t3 is pelvic rotation

[donnie]

The problem is that I (pld) get dropped fast; t4's along with multiple melee hits and draw in on the boss makes my hp 0 pretty fast.

The mule run in and run back strat doesn't make much sense to me since I was under the impression that as soon as you pulled one demon all of them link and the boss draws you in, is there something I'm missing?

Ultimately I suppose I'll just have to hound my blms to sleep faster.

so as I said, the mule will die/comeback both doesnt matter, if he get draw in and die, the hate wont get reset and they will run to alliance , thats why i said have the PLD infront of the group.

[Neosutra]

Every couple months this comes up. The two sides of the argument resolve as follows. One group says, "Our LS doesn't use BRD swaps and we win every zone. Having swaps just complicates things and adds more chances for people to fuck up. If you need BRD swaps to win, you suck." The other group says, "Having a few people play two songs, drop party, and join a new party every minute or two is not compicated. BRD swaps make runs go faster, and if your LS can't handle something that simple, you suck."

So in conclusion, everyone sucks, regardless of whether or not they use swaps, so just do what works best for your LS.

Actually I think the real conclusion was "there is no reason to not be twice as efficient for minimal increase in effort".

[Killkenny]

Actually the real conclusion was "it will vary from ls to ls" but the uncomprimisingly narrowminded conclusion was what you said.

[Arthars]

i read back the pages

i think no one said brd rotation sucks lol

just saying it may complicate things to new LS/group, but if you think you can do it after everyone get the hang of things, go for it

[Neosutra]

Actually the real conclusion was "it will vary from ls to ls" but the uncomprimisingly narrowminded conclusion was what you said.

Ya, because using the best approach is narrowminded.

I bet using hagun over other non relic alternatives is narrowminded too?

Since when is using the best and most efficient solution "narrowminded".

It is obtuse and plain silly to not take advantage of massive increases in damage at MINIMAL increase in work.

Stop making excuses for your own failure.

[donnie]

its not even about the DMG only, it will give a really short time for any monster todo more then 1 TP move if any. and that also takes only 1 stun to lock the mob and freeze it to death.

[Killkenny]

Ya, because using the best approach is narrowminded.

I bet using hagun over other non relic alternatives is narrowminded too?

Since when is using the best and most efficient solution "narrowminded".

It is obtuse and plain silly to not take advantage of massive increases in damage at MINIMAL increase in work.

Stop making excuses for your own failure.

Our own failure? Such a defensive stance implies that you feel you may be wrong when all I said was that its stupid to try and generalise every individual group.

There are too many factors involved for you to make a blanket statement about what is best for every ls. Yes we all know if done correctly it will speed up kills, but if its not done correctly then it can slow them down.

Not everyone that plays this game puts as much effort in as the next person, newer groups or groups containing people newer to endgame, or just people who don't focus will not benefit from swapping bards and it could well slow them down. I'm sure you've got some clever response about "get better people" but its not an option for everyone, but everyone can do einherjar.

As for the Hagun comment, that really makes absolutely no sense at all. Yeah relic will obviously do best, but just like bard swapping its not feasible for everyone, but also the fact that even hagun isn't feasible for everyone. Onimaru will parse extremely close to hagun in an einherjar situation.

[Aurara]

BRD rotation is really nice, but there are situations where it is just not safe to do.(i.e T3 with REALLLLLY shitty mobs where people need to be focused).

[Neosutra]

"If not done correctly".. How the hell do you screw up bard swaps?

If you dont have 2-3 competant party leaders in your LS capable of hitting a /partycmd add PlayerX macro every few minutes, then just accept the critism you're getting.

I have an open Einherjar LS that had members ranging from Relic wielding einherjar experts to the guy that goes "oh, what tier did we just do". None of them have ever had a problem with this complicated concept of moving a person from one party to another..

It is laziness, pure and simple.

[Aurara]

it can be easy to screw up if the brds dont know whats happening.