Zhayolm: 1F, 5F, 6F Poroggo Madames Info

[Hapernack]

So basically the only consistencies seem to be a large amount of people (of the people in the run) being completely pathos-free or a possible weather type?

[recuperi]

could each pathos correspond to 2 days of the week, kinda like the 4F rampart? and you'd need whichever pathos that corresponds to that day completely cleared on everyone to satisfy pop conditions. no clue how this would work and which pathos would match which day, but it could explain why some people are getting it to pop on basically same conditions with different pieces missing (not really sure tbh ._.)

[Arthars]

if your group is fairly done with all 25 drops and need none of the boss item, it is best to spend more time for cells and just try go for 5F N since it seem to be 100% pop FOR NOW IF everyone is fully unlocked.

[NynJa]

Ok, so I think I got this, but I'm in class, and my brains resting (thats wut I do in class)...

5F Madame (both north and south) is popped by having everyones pathos effects removed (or almost completely removed), right ?

[Almalexia]

So basically the only consistencies seem to be a large amount of people (of the people in the run) being completely pathos-free or a possible weather type?

Weather, day, time of day, time spent per floor, and moonphase are non-issues. Pathos seems to be the only constant, but just how much Pathos necessary for a successful pop is under deliberation.

could each pathos correspond to 2 days of the week, kinda like the 4F rampart? and you'd need whichever pathos that corresponds to that day completely cleared on everyone to satisfy pop conditions. no clue how this would work and which pathos would match which day, but it could explain why some people are getting it to pop on basically same conditions with different pieces missing (not really sure tbh ._.)

Well, there are 5 Pathos effects: Encuberance, Oblivescence, Debilitation, Omerta and the other guy. Kind of hard to fit that into the game day scheme of 8 elements, unless one of the Pathos is special somehow.

5F Madame (both north and south) is popped by having everyones pathos effects removed (or almost completely removed), right ?

We're only handling 5FN at the moment. 5FS could have to do with Pathos, but I don't think anyone has put it to the test since Boiling Saturday.

[Gwynplaine]

5F North madame can be spawned with as few as 2 to 4 members fully unlocked and various other cells used. However it does not always spawn when 2 to 4 members are fully unlocked. So far in the cases where 6 out of 6 members or more are fully unlocked the madame has always been spawned. Why this is no one's sure yet.

5F South has really not been tested since the idea of pathos unlocking. It would be nice if maybe there are some groups planning to do Battleclad Chariot runs soon to note what they unlock, and widescan for 5FS madame on the way to 6F.

[alphacat]

Well, there are 5 Pathos effects: Encuberance, Oblivescence, Debilitation, Omerta and the other guy. Kind of hard to fit that into the game day scheme of 8 elements, unless one of the Pathos is special somehow.

It's possible, with 3 pathos each corresponding to 2 days of the week, and darks/lights day each get 1 pathos of their own since they are 'special'.

[Acturus]

Well, there are 5 Pathos effects: Encuberance, Oblivescence, Debilitation, Omerta and the other guy. Kind of hard to fit that into the game day scheme of 8 elements, unless one of the Pathos is special somehow.

It's possible, with 3 pathos each corresponding to 2 days of the week, and darks/lights day each get 1 pathos of their own since they are 'special'.

Perhaps, but I think going this route may be overthinking the whole sh'bang.

[Max™]

6 People fully unlocked = 100%
2-4 People fully unlocked= Less than 100%
Have people gone up there with noone fully unlocked before?

Perhaps its just as simple as a counter of the pathos, when you get 6 people fully unlocked it equals 100% Pop, if you have 3 People, maybe its 50%, and so forth.

[Kaylia]

6 people unlocked = ton of mobs killed
3 people unlocked = less mobs killed usually

Look on the right track tho, but is there any run that killed more mobs and had less pathos removed?

[edit]
Certain # of cell used might be a better answer tho. That would explain how south frog popped as people were training (assuming both N and S pop the same way)

[Shadida]

These are all assumptions but they're good reasons for why no one would have seen 5FN assuming it requires full unlocks:

• The stat cells drop on the south path, which means having to go a far ways south in order to get enough to unlock, which is counterintuitive because it boils to the north.[/*:m:f4708]
• It's safe to assume that most people who ever got close to a full unlock in Zhayolm were melees, who would be less inclined to actually lot things like Velum and Spissatus Cells and use them.[/*:m:f4708]
• It's very unlikely to unlock anyone and meet the time limit for 4FN, which would have been the objective of many people who went north[/*:m:f4708]
• Even with one or more people unlocked, if not everyone is it appears to be only a chance of encountering the Madame[/*:m:f4708]

I'm really curious to see now what would happen if you zoned to 6F after killing 2 or 3 NMs. Jakko, 3F N/S Madame, and 5FN Madame make a combination of NMs which don't involve a time restraint.

Has anyone tried popping Jakko or the 3F Madame before going after 5FN or is anyone brave enough to give it a shot?

[Gwynplaine]

6 people unlocked = ton of mobs killed
3 people unlocked = less mobs killed usually

Look on the right track tho, but is there any run that killed more mobs and had less pathos removed?

[edit]
Certain # of cell used might be a better answer tho. That would explain how south frog popped as people were training (assuming both N and S pop the same way)

I don't think it deals with amount of enemies killed. Most people who spawned the madame defeated about 90-98 enemies. Avinor's group defeated about 120 enemies before entering 5F and had 0 members fully unlocked and the madame did not spawn.

[Shadida]

Here's a thought - if when you have 100% of members with zero Pathos it is a 100% pop, what if you d/c 5 members and leave an unlocked one to floor up and pop the NM? :D

[Aemora]

Tiara and Both feet, where though? South side? Or like the Chariot in Arrapago, the popping conditions are similar, as are the drops, shared on the same floor with the same pool.

Seems kinda fucked up to me that SE put the Gambison, a body armour, with the Hands and Legs or another. Why not the Tiara instead?

[Seditedi]

6F Madame is most likely the location of the rest of the 35s.

[Kaylia]

6 people unlocked = ton of mobs killed
3 people unlocked = less mobs killed usually

Look on the right track tho, but is there any run that killed more mobs and had less pathos removed?

[edit]
Certain # of cell used might be a better answer tho. That would explain how south frog popped as people were training (assuming both N and S pop the same way)

I don't think it deals with amount of enemies killed. Most people who spawned the madame defeated about 90-98 enemies. Avinor's group defeated about 120 enemies before entering 5F and had 0 members fully unlocked and the madame did not spawn.

Thought it was for South madame tho? Anyway, that's why i addes the edit saying # of cells used, since going north path give you 0 cell and 30ish kill. It's also one of the few explanations that make sense for the midfloor pop.

6F Madame is most likely the location of the rest of the 35s.

Unlike north frog (people always went south and rarely tried to pop it), this one is scary. No one ever popped it after 340583405 runs. Probably going to have to wait another 6 months before someone pop it accidently like we did for the Qiqirn.

[Shadida]

6 people unlocked = ton of mobs killed
3 people unlocked = less mobs killed usually

Look on the right track tho, but is there any run that killed more mobs and had less pathos removed?

[edit]
Certain # of cell used might be a better answer tho. That would explain how south frog popped as people were training (assuming both N and S pop the same way)

I don't think it deals with amount of enemies killed. Most people who spawned the madame defeated about 90-98 enemies. Avinor's group defeated about 120 enemies before entering 5F and had 0 members fully unlocked and the madame did not spawn.

Thought it was for South madame tho? Anyway, that's why i addes the edit saying # of cells used, since going north path give you 0 cell and 30ish kill. It's also one of the few explanations that make sense for the midfloor pop.

Well, one way to test this is to collect all the cells but use as few as you can manage with, and then when you get to the destination, pop them one by one and check if Madame pops. Just gotta make sure you've got the inventory space for it.

Unless she would only pop if you opened the door hm... then you'd have to get to the floor, see she's not up, pop all the cells, then open the door and give it another try?

[Arthars]

it will suck if number of unlock = % of popping

cos that means luck as drop cells from mobs is kinda lil random at 3F and 4F.

i dont like luck -_-

wait a min..........ramparts in bhaflau are luck to pop, but good drop rates.......

5F N madame high drop rate too! but no luck factor pls LOL

[Narse]

I think it has to do with pathos being removed, and that what kind prolly doesn't matter (there are 5 effects: Magic, SJ, Ability, Armor, Stats). I'm going to theorize that it's one of the following conditions:

1) Each member needs a certain number of pathos effects to be removed. Example, you enter with 6 members, each has 5 pathos effects on them. When porting up to 5th floor, each member must have only 2/5 remaining, or 3/5 remaining. This would mean that if 5 people were fully unlocked and one person had only magic unlocked, then the madame wouldn't spawn.

2) A certain number of pathos effects must be removed. We'll say this magic number is 24. This means that between all members, 24 effects must be removed. This could be done in a variety of ways, such as a 6 man group having all 5 effects removed from 5 people and having one member still completely locked, a 12 man group having 6 members with 4 of 5 unlocked and the remaining 6 locked still, etc.

3) A certain % of pathos effects must be removed. This means that the number would most likely be 60% or 80% as those numbers would allow whole numbers regardless of the size of the group. The number isn't 100%, we know that, and I can verify with a run that I just did (more info below) that 21 of 40 with an 8 man group (a little over 50%) did not pop the madame, and therefore we can rule out 20% and 40% as well. Example, we'll say the number is 60% effects must be removed. This would be 18 total with a 6 man group, but would be 24 with an 8 man group.

I have the following information concerning my run today with an 8 man group:

First off, no pop on 5th floor madame. We killed 3 mamool on 1st floor, 1 on the 2nd floor, popped N madame on 3rd floor, killed only the proper rampart on 4th floor.

Of our 8 members, the following pathos were in effect when porting to 5th floor:

Members 1 and 2: Stat
Member 3: Magic, Stat
Member 4: Ability, SJ, Stat, Armor
Member 5 and 6: SJ, Stat, Armor
Member 7: Magic, Stat, Armor
Member 8: Stat, Armor

This means that only 1 pathos effect was removed on one member, concerning the first posted theory.

21 Pathos effects were removed overall.
52.5% of pathos effects were removed.

[Kaylia]

Zhayolm drop rate is constant enough compared to let's say...arrapago. First floor and 2nd floor will always give you close to the same amount of cell. 3rd floor is random on hp/mp, but you get 3 stats cell on every kill, no? The madame should cover every needed hp/mp if you got screwed.
If there is anything, it's probably a static amount that is doable for 6 people (the minimum requiremed for salvage). What happen if someone dc? Probably the same thing that would happen on a lamp floor in Nyzul.