Einherjar: Valgrind (Odin's Chamber)

[Hapernack]

I've also given my complaints in regards to redoing ALL the wings and how I'd rather see a focus on Tier 3 clears than Tiers 1 and 2.

Then why the fuck are we arguing?

[Angelsin]

I've also given my complaints in regards to redoing ALL the wings and how I'd rather see a focus on Tier 3 clears than Tiers 1 and 2.

Then why the fuck are we arguing?

I'm saying it can be done with not absolute perfect gear and not 36/36 people. It sounds like what your saying is that it's too hard without full or near full alliance with best gear. And that's what your complaining about (at least that's what I'm reading).

I'm complaining about repeating and the time factor between Odin fights. Being restricted to 3 days per run is pretty dumb imo. That's 10 runs total x 3 days waiting = 1 month per Odin attempt given everyone (or at least the really active ones) are online for those runs. Salvage = fight LBC w/e. Dynamis = fight DL every 3 days. Limbus = 3/12 days-ish for Omega/Ultima respectively (depending on #'s - low man limbus are awesome). Hell, Kings are a random 4-10ish days wait for a chance to fight them. Everything else in the game is like 2 weeks or less for a chance to fight the main objective. Odin SHOULD be the same way - after you beat Odin though.

The difficulty is fine. Yeah you can get fucked (stupid goddamn Marid per adjustment). Or you can get REALLY lucky. The hard stuff is going to require more practice. Not beating wings the first run all the time should be expected. But it's not completely impossible. Sorry if you don't agree on the difficulty but I personally hate it when SE nerfs things that don't need to be nerfed. CoP Promy's come to mind for this.

[Marsala]

I don't know about your but 1 month seems reasonable. My LS claimed less than one king per month and Odin is a garunteed king drop. so unless your LS rocks all the kings than it is better than nothing.

[donnie]

I don't know about your but 1 month seems reasonable. My LS claimed less than one king per month and Odin is a garunteed king drop. so unless your LS rocks all the kings than it is better than nothing.

with you on that

[Hapernack]

I've also given my complaints in regards to redoing ALL the wings and how I'd rather see a focus on Tier 3 clears than Tiers 1 and 2.

Then why the fuck are we arguing?

I'm saying it can be done with not absolute perfect gear and not 36/36 people. It sounds like what your saying is that it's too hard without full or near full alliance with best gear. And that's what your complaining about (at least that's what I'm reading).

I'm complaining about repeating and the time factor between Odin fights. Being restricted to 3 days per run is pretty dumb imo. That's 10 runs total x 3 days waiting = 1 month per Odin attempt given everyone (or at least the really active ones) are online for those runs. Salvage = fight LBC w/e. Dynamis = fight DL every 3 days. Limbus = 3/12 days-ish for Omega/Ultima respectively (depending on #'s - low man limbus are awesome). Hell, Kings are a random 4-10ish days wait for a chance to fight them. Everything else in the game is like 2 weeks or less for a chance to fight the main objective. Odin SHOULD be the same way - after you beat Odin though.

The difficulty is fine. Yeah you can get fucked (stupid goddamn Marid per adjustment). Or you can get REALLY lucky. The hard stuff is going to require more practice. Not beating wings the first run all the time should be expected. But it's not completely impossible. Sorry if you don't agree on the difficulty but I personally hate it when SE nerfs things that don't need to be nerfed. CoP Promy's come to mind for this.

We regularly clear Einherjar. I'm not complaining that we can't do it at all if that's what you had been thinking. Its that we have to use the same retarded super-manaburn setup for the higher tiers relying entirely on Sleepga or Horde >> -aga III wave to clear the lower mobs. That is the complaint I have with the event itself. There's just no alternative. We don't have huge numbers either but we can get (if we're lucky) 20-24 to our T2+ runs. We keep having to go back to re-clear people who are new though and its very very annoying. Which brings my complaint about the feather design thing up. Limbus was more well designed in this regard. It'll take eons at this rate for a nice full odin roster. Finally, when we do kill Odin (and we will), it'll be just as freaking long for us to get re-cleared for it again because I guarantee we'll have 4-5 people always who are needing everything because they didn't show up. WIth our low numbers (relative to the max of 36) it means we HAVE to clear basically everyone unless we want to be pushing back Odin time and time again because of insufficient attendance. Its not that PEOPLE won't show up.... its will the RIGHT people who are cleared show up? That! is fucking annoying.

[Lhexh]

Its that we have to use the same retarded super-manaburn setup for the higher tiers relying entirely on Sleepga or Horde >> -aga III wave to clear the lower mobs.

Who the hell actually does this? I haven't seen anyone that uses heavy manaburn setups for higher tiers, they all use melee burn setups which seem a hell of a lot more efficient. We run with the same 18-24 people you do, and I have the exact same complaint about the feather system [ had to clear Tier 1 15 times, and Tier 2 7 times to start on Tier 3 ] but we only bring 3 BLM and never had a problem clearing anything.

[Hapernack]

Its that we have to use the same retarded super-manaburn setup for the higher tiers relying entirely on Sleepga or Horde >> -aga III wave to clear the lower mobs.

Who the hell actually does this? I haven't seen anyone that uses heavy manaburn setups for higher tiers, they all use melee burn setups which seem a hell of a lot more efficient. We run with the same 18-24 people you do, and I have the exact same complaint about the feather system [ had to clear Tier 1 15 times, and Tier 2 7 times to start on Tier 3 ] but we only bring 3 BLM and never had a problem clearing anything.

We do? We have maybe 6 melee DD in the LS. We have easily 10-14 BLMs if we are running our max capacity.

[ashke]

I (essentially) manaburn it, in Valgrind, an Einherjar LS on Asura. >.>;

We've got a tank PT w/ some amazing PLDs from a number of top LS's, a PT w/ some SAMs for SCs... but for all intents and purposes we're running 12 BLMs in 4 BLM PTs w/ a BLU, RDM, and BRD in each PT. Works really well.

[stinkypoo]

We regularly clear Einherjar. I'm not complaining that we can't do it at all if that's what you had been thinking. Its that we have to use the same retarded super-manaburn setup for the higher tiers relying entirely on Sleepga or Horde >> -aga III wave to clear the lower mobs. That is the complaint I have with the event itself. There's just no alternative.

False. Then again you say you only have 6 melees in your LS...didn't know that was actually possible for a medium/large linkshell x_X

Yes the feather system sucks; I think we've established that by this point. Some people just feel it sucks more/less than others, that's all. No need to repeat it a million times.

That being said, we did time out with ~30 people last night on tier III. Got 12 demons, 12 Ahriman and 12 Soulflayers (x_X) with Khimmy boss, and a Tourbillion near the start wtfowned our melees. Losing was frustrating, but overall I'd say I had a lot more fun trying to win this than I did sleepwalking my way through another boring limbus run earlier ;x

I dunno about the BLM thing...what if you get a boss that takes crap dmg from nukes? (Cerb does I think? Not sure as I was always WHM when we got him). How many rounds of -ga does it take to wipe a group of 12 mobs?

[Hapernack]

Ok before people take that 6 melee thing out of context, I mean that's what we bring to Einherjar. We COULD if we wanted have anywhere between 8-12 melee at max capacity. On the other hand we can also have 10-14 BLMs on max capacity with far better results since we only have maybe 4-6 melee are would be considered "well-geared and powered" even by extreme standards. The rest are what the majority of the extreme BG community would call "operational" if you get my meaning.

We used the -aga III method on higher tiers when we discovered we would have absolutely no chance of clearing the mob waves in time for boss. The number of mobs in 2-3 spans from 24 (still ridiculous) to like 40+ sometimes (wtf is this shit?!). We figured the only chance of a low-medium sized LS for this would be to get 10-14 BLMs, 4-5 BRDs/CORs, Tanks, and a few melee for an occassional SC and burn through them.

That being said, with 12 BLM -aga IIIing, a wave of 12 mobs taking normal damage from magic takes about 4 minutes to down. 2 waves or so max. That 4 minutes is including buffing and getting the mob organized/under control.

[Lhexh]

We figured the only chance of a low-medium sized LS for this would be to get 10-14 BLMs, 4-5 BRDs/CORs, Tanks, and a few melee for an occassional SC and burn through them.

Have you actually tried using a melee setup since the Einherjar nerf? You mention having 4-5 BRD/CORs which is perfect, and those are far more important than the quality of the melees honestly. The core of our LS is VERY well geared, but half the melees we bring are very NQish in gear since it's their 5th, 6th, etc jobs. As long as we bring proper support, any melee that can eat meat does very well for us.

A typical setup for us 4 BRD, 2 RDM 2 WHM, 3 BLM, 1 PLD, 1 NIN, 8 melee DDs [ WAR SAM DRK RNG DRGs ]. We're pretty lenient on who comes what as long as the first 3 jobs listed are covered by someone since support is the most factor in this zone so the quality of melees varies daily depending on who wants to play which job that day. The results have been very good since the nerf, it made things a lot easier. Last weekend we did a Tier2, had 36 mobs + Flan boss [ easiest boss ] but cleared it with 13 minutes left and we only had 20 people that day.

I'm all for SE fixing einherjar's feather system. I think it's a retarded system, but I just don't think einherjar otherwise is all that problematic. It isn't anywhere near as hard or as manpower dependant as some people make it out to be, and I do fully believe a single 18 man alliance can do it start to end. Of course that would require far more specific jobs and higher quality skill/gear but it would certainly be achievable by a sizable number of LS if they actually aimed to.

[aznmajiktaru]

As for avoiding that technique used by that last guy you fight in Einherjar… use the pose as if you were paying respect or praying and… Does this mean bowing or kneeling to Odin has some special effect?

sooooo anyone close to odin gonna try this? <_>

[Loziel]

lol by the time people realise he's about to do the move, disengage and /kneel or /rest they will already be dead. good luck trying this and loosing weeks of work. Sounds like they want people to fail.

[Belkin]

Or you can keep a tank, a couple mages and a heavy DD on it while everybody else runs away. I thought it was confirmed he only does this move once around 10%?

[donnie]

lol by the time people realise he's about to do the move, disengage and /kneel or /rest they will already be dead. good luck trying this and loosing weeks of work. Sounds like they want people to fail.

i doubt poeple will test that , nothing beats getting out of range lol

[Judai]

Can just have one person kneel and test it!

[Memo]

I have a question for the LS on Ramuh that beat Odin recently. How did you guys handle the valkyries? Our LS is a few days away from our second Odin fight and I'm just curious as to whether or not the valkyries have any effect on what drops you get. Our first time, we killed 3 of them then kited the 6 others til they despawned, but didn't get any of the Odin armor like the Valhala Body. So of course, our members started discussing the possibility of killing valkyries etc. to maybe make those pieces drop. If it's all random, and they don't have any affect, then we won't even worry about killing them, I'm sure.

And for the record, I'd gladly volunteer to test the /kneeling for Zantet lol. Just a question of how crucial or not my role will be during the fight. :3 I was a valkyrie kiter last time, so if i'm not something important this time, I'll run in with RR and kneel etc.

[Yusuka]

I thought it was;
Pink Bird = item chest
Brown Bird = weaken mobs (I've personally observed the mobs drop from 100% to 90% when they were pulled/slept whilst we killed the bird, I highly doubt they were all cursed by a thief)
Tiger = strengthen mobs if left up (? idk honestly)
Sheep = more drops (ingots, amrita, and what not in the boss crate)

Bingo. I can't attest to the effects of the sheep, but the effect you observed on the "brown bird" are dead-on, and the tiger mob if left to live has the exact reciprocal effect. We were doing mass-aga III to the group of mobs and we neglected to see the tiger. Whole group got an extra 10% HP right before what was supposed to be a final wave of Thundaga III.

We had the sheep once, killed it and when we opened the chest we got nothing but the usual 3 items of fail.

[Memo]

Not sure if Yusuka's post was a reply to my question, but if it was, that's not what I'm asking. My question was about the actual Odin fight itself, not a regular tier I, II, or III where the animals pop. Though I guess just like the animals can depop, the valkyries can similarly depop as well. Maybe there's some type of connection, like maybe killing a valkyrie might have a similar effect to killing a bird or tiger, etc. Our first Odin kill was about 5 weeks ago, so because of the long intervals between each Odin fight, it's not something that we can test easily. That's why I was wondering what the LS on Ramuh did with the valkyries.

[docvicious]

Really I can see where your LS is coming from, The whole concept of einherjar other than epic drop fail is to clear the entire room, de pop counts as a clear but what if the valkeries. But I seriously doubt thats the case. Valhalla stuff is probably just as much of a chance as two weapons just the fight itself takes awhile to get to hence making it seem like its a bad drop rate.