Einherjar: Valgrind (Odin's Chamber)

[Eldelphia]

sorry this is off topic, but why would you let these kind people rejoin the group?

they (from my perspective) are the kind of ppl who quit when the going gets tough, and make it even harder for the dedicated people.

on topic, we've been beating t3's very easily now, although neph never really had any issues

I see your point but honestly they're not earning enough points to be a bother. We're not talking about complete dicks, just peeps who were getting a bit burnt out. We get rid of the complete dicks...


Anyone care to share their loot distribution system?

[Neosutra]

Points.

Come to einherjar. Earn a point.

Want to bid on something? Bid points.

Max you can lose for any item is 25 points (but can bid as high as you want, providing you have the points). (I based the point cap loss on the average drop rate of the highest desired item (E.body) and the rate at which a good LS should be hitting Odin).

That directly rewards players for their work put into the system, and also removes the ability for people to lose a year of work in one single bidding war due to an item being rare/more wanted than others.

It is by far the most fair and robust system you can have. If you dont agree then you're wrong and should feel bad.

[Eldelphia]

Points.

Come to einherjar. Earn a point.

Want to bid on something? Bid points.

Max you can lose for any item is 25 points (but can bid as high as you want, providing you have the points). (I based the point cap loss on the average drop rate of the highest desired item (E.body) and the rate at which a good LS should be hitting Odin).

That directly rewards players for their work put into the system, and also removes the ability for people to lose a year of work in one single bidding war due to an item being rare/more wanted than others.

It is by far the most fair and robust system you can have. If you dont agree then you're wrong and should feel bad.

I went for this too but we're reviewing it right now as we're about to hit Odin. Our problem in part is we can only go once a week because its a mixed timezone shell so Odin drops will be rarer and we award 2 points for run. So my feeling our points cap is a little low.

[Neosutra]

Doubling your points and your points cap nets the same result.

Inflating points will only net inflated point bids.

Just keep it simple and fair.

[Khory]

Neosutra,

Can you give us any idea of how many points items some items usually ended up costing?

[Neosutra]

For my LS: (41 Odins).

E.body usually goes for max points (60-70, truncated to 25).

We are capped on A.body.. but usually went for about 40-50, truncated to 25. Now they go for 10 or so.

V.body/helm usually go for capped points (people just bid all their points on high tier items due to only losing 25).

Rest goes for chump change except for the occasional N.head/legs etc.

From our website history thread:

"40 Odins as of July 2010, giving us over 160 Einherjar Abjurations/armors/weapons to the LS, specifically 17 E.bodies, 11 A.bodies, 8 Valhalla Helms, 4 Valhalla Bodies, 3 Valk Forks, 5 Hofuds, and 110 other Abjurations!" was our statistics as of our 40th Odin.

Last Odin kill was with 17 people, so the update has made things a lot easier on bidding since there is a lot less competition when you can kill Odin with a little over 2 parties in about 15 min.

[FailureMidgard]

Points.

Come to einherjar. Earn a point.

Want to bid on something? Bid points.

Max you can lose for any item is 25 points (but can bid as high as you want, providing you have the points). (I based the point cap loss on the average drop rate of the highest desired item (E.body) and the rate at which a good LS should be hitting Odin).

That directly rewards players for their work put into the system, and also removes the ability for people to lose a year of work in one single bidding war due to an item being rare/more wanted than others.

It is by far the most fair and robust system you can have. If you dont agree then you're wrong and should feel bad.

For my LS: (41 Odins).

E.body usually goes for max points (60-70, truncated to 25).

We are capped on A.body.. but usually went for about 40-50, truncated to 25. Now they go for 10 or so.

V.body/helm usually go for capped points (people just bid all their points on high tier items due to only losing 25).

Rest goes for chump change except for the occasional N.head/legs etc.

From our website history thread:

"40 Odins as of July 2010, giving us over 160 Einherjar Abjurations/armors/weapons to the LS, specifically 17 E.bodies, 11 A.bodies, 8 Valhalla Helms, 4 Valhalla Bodies, 3 Valk Forks, 5 Hofuds, and 110 other Abjurations!" was our statistics as of our 40th Odin.

Last Odin kill was with 17 people, so the update has made things a lot easier on bidding since there is a lot less competition when you can kill Odin with a little over 2 parties in about 15 min.

Honestly, what's the point of having a bidding system there? Why not just make all the items that go for good points cost 25, highest point holder that wants it gets it. Just seems unnecessarily bulky, seeing as that's essentially what you're doing anyway?

Also, could kill Odin with 17 in 15min after last update too. Not sure with just 2 parties though.

[Eticket]

It's been way too long since I've done Einherjar so I can't remember all the details of our system.

There were no points though. For the most part it was attendance based with priority based lotting. People could switch jobs every few cycles.

It worked pretty well through about 5 leadership changes until attendance tanked and we closed up shop.

[Neosutra]

Honestly, what's the point of having a bidding system there? Why not just make all the items that go for good points cost 25, highest point holder that wants it gets it. Just seems unnecessarily bulky, seeing as that's essentially what you're doing anyway?

Also, could kill Odin with 17 in 15min after last update too. Not sure with just 2 parties though.

Because I dont want to charge someone 25 points for E.body (or A.body, or whatever) if no one else wants it.

"Hey, no one else wants this item, but you're going to lose 12 weeks of effort because I'm going to arbitrarily charge you points to lot this".

Point cap deductions protect members from disproportionate spending of points. Minimums just ensure a minimum amount of work has been put forth to lot an item.

That being said, we do have a minimum of 9 points to lot E.body/A.body/Vshit.

And ya, we killed Odin with 17 before the update too, but a lot less room for error. (Still 5+ minutes left, but there can be problems if last 2 sets of adds both spawn at last 10%).

After update we had it at 15% at around the 12 minute mark without 2 hours or really trying, and that's with 2 Plds for atonment, a thf, sam, drk, and 2 smns for damage.

[Chen]

our system was orginally set point cost on items, person with the highest points got the item, and then they lost the set cost.

after about 1 year we changed this so it's now bid as many points as you like, and you lose 1/2 of them, so that 1 years work doesn't = 1 a.body or something

[Chen]

Neosutra,

Can you give us any idea of how many points items some items usually ended up costing?

i know this wasn't directed to me, but since our point systems are somewhat similar, and nephilim has done about 30odins orso, you'll find the price of items goes up the longer the shell goes on for, due to drop rates not being fast enough.

in points system, you can't think, "Rite, imma bid 40 points on a.body, no more." cause then some turd joins and 20runs(2per) and they get the drop before you. while you have 300points and sticking to your plan. as time goes by, price goes up, more money/points put into system, inflation.

e.bodies etc will always cost near max points, until you place a cost-cap. otherwise the bidders will never get one.

[Neosutra]

I think people missed the part where I said my system was best and if you did it different you should feel bad.

[Michelob]

We go on a points system as well for Einherjar but ours doesn't involve bidding. You get both a main-lot point and a sub-lot point. Drops go to the main lotter with the most points. If no main lotter for the drop, then it goes to the sub lotter with the most points. If no lotter at all then it is free lot. If you get your drop for either main or sub lot, your corresponding points are reset to 0. Free lot drops aren't don't affect points. We have never had a problem with lots at all and it seems entirely fair to me.

Also, you could change your lots at the end of each month or if you got your drop for main or sub you could pick a new lot immediately.

[Neosutra]

That's a great system for disproportionately rewarding/fucking people for their work based on random luck.

Seriously, what's so hard about:

You come, you earn credit, you use credit to attain armor you worked for...

The ONLY downside to that kind of system is perhaps your "best" war doesnt get E.body before a semi decent one. But honestly, the "best" war should show the fuck up more.

[FailureMidgard]

That's a great system for disproportionately rewarding/fucking people for their work based on random luck.

Seriously, what's so hard about:

You come, you earn credit, you use credit to attain armor you worked for...

The ONLY downside to that kind of system is perhaps your "best" war doesnt get E.body before a semi decent one. But honestly, the "best" war should show the fuck up more.

How do you come to this conclusion? Your way potentially does the same thing anyway. If you go Abody first, then Ebody second, you get fucked 'cause you paid 25 for your abody and will pay 25 again for ebody it sounds like (while being lower). If you went ebody first, you got that with high points, and now pay minimum for abody?

Furthermore, if 3 people all need ebody say, 1 of them misses a t1 so can't make odin, the other misses odin, the 3rd gets it for minimum points, but the other 2 have to pay full still?

And besides, his system lets you not fuck over your main job to get an item for a 2nd or 3rd job. Like, rather than let the abody freelot to BLMs, maybe someone wants an ebody more, but would like an abody for their rdm too, can take it over freelot, but doesn't ruin their chances of getting ebody for their main (lets just call it a relic war or drk for fun?).

[Michelob]

That's a great system for disproportionately rewarding/fucking people for their work based on random luck.

Seriously, what's so hard about:

You come, you earn credit, you use credit to attain armor you worked for...

The ONLY downside to that kind of system is perhaps your "best" war doesnt get E.body before a semi decent one. But honestly, the "best" war should show the fuck up more.

Meh to be honest, the majority of our members already had most of the gear to begin with aside from the Einherjar-specific drops and a random king abjuration here or there. The only noteable drop that we actually needed more than 3 or 4 of was Ebody. Seeing as we have done this for over two years now, no body has truly been "rewarded for luck" nor fucked over in our system.

[Neosutra]

How do you come to this conclusion? Your way potentially does the same thing anyway. If you go Abody first, then Ebody second, you get fucked 'cause you paid 25 for your abody and will pay 25 again for ebody it sounds like (while being lower). If you went ebody first, you got that with high points, and now pay minimum for abody?

Furthermore, if 3 people all need ebody say, 1 of them misses a t1 so can't make odin, the other misses odin, the 3rd gets it for minimum points, but the other 2 have to pay full still?

And besides, his system lets you not fuck over your main job to get an item for a 2nd or 3rd job. Like, rather than let the abody freelot to BLMs, maybe someone wants an ebody more, but would like an abody for their rdm too, can take it over freelot, but doesn't ruin their chances of getting ebody for their main (lets just call it a relic war or drk for fun?).

25 is the most you can lose. You can get for less.

And yes, people get it for cheaper if no competition.

It's my way of saying: Show the fuck up to einherjar if you want to lot. It encourages people to show up or be dual boxed so we dont lose 20% of people every Odin due to random people missing T1/2/3.

And seriously, are you bringing up "main jobs versus 2nd/3rd job". This isnt 2006. My (and yours I assume) 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc jobs are just as well gear and useful/used as our "main job". I stress flexibility and like people to be able to come a variety of jobs, not "oh you're mostly on drk, so you're a drk main".

[Michelob]

It's my way of saying: Show the fuck up to einherjar if you want to lot. It encourages people to show up or be dual boxed so we dont lose 20% of people every Odin due to random people missing T1/2/3.

Do you actually have problems fighting Odin with people missing? We used to come to Einherjar with 33 people and 3 mules but hell, these days even before the cap increase we are lucky to get 20 people that can enter Odin's Chamber each round. Killing it with an ally or slightly less really isn't difficult though.

[Neosutra]

Do you actually have problems fighting Odin with people missing? We used to come to Einherjar with 33 people and 3 mules but hell, these days even before the cap increase we are lucky to get 20 people that can enter Odin's Chamber each round. Killing it with an ally or slightly less really isn't difficult though.

I suppose you missed the earlier posts about 15-17 people per Odin with ease.

But if 2-3 people miss for RL each chamber, and you're only taking in 20-22 people per T1/2/3 chamber. You're looking at 6-9 people missing out of a base group of 22-25 people.

So yes, given a shitty rotation (where a lot of people have RL commitments), I would prefer to not have to fight Odin with 13 people.

Not that 13 people is impossible at 80, but still.

People act like it's hard to set aside 30 min twice a week.

[FailureMidgard]

It's my way of saying: Show the fuck up to einherjar if you want to lot. It encourages people to show up or be dual boxed so we dont lose 20% of people every Odin due to random people missing T1/2/3.

I guess that's alright, never really thought of it that way.

And seriously, are you bringing up "main jobs versus 2nd/3rd job". This isnt 2006. My (and yours I assume) 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc jobs are just as well gear and useful/used as our "main job". I stress flexibility and like people to be able to come a variety of jobs, not "oh you're mostly on drk, so you're a drk main".

Eh, I was more commenting from a general standpoint, and assuming that anyone who asked about point systems in Einherjar isn't in the same situation as you or I am. I've gotten 0 items from Einherjar, and care about getting 0 items more from Einherjar, so it's not really an issue. I got an A-body from Nid, and don't really care about anything else that drops there as I can't equip E-body, Valhalla, or V-fork. I guess I could theoretically use N-legs, but I'm not too concerned with thief, and at this point I don't think it's worth the gil to uncurse vs waiting for Tumbling Trousers to drop in price.

In any case, I don't mean main job to be what you normally come on or anything else, just the fact that if you really want 1 piece, it blows to have to pass on absolutely everything until you get that 1 piece or you'll lose it. And not to say I think people should lootwhore, but ya know, having some ability to get an item over freelot without ruining your chances of what you truly want isn't bad, in general, in a system. For Ein in decently geared shells that have been running for a while, /shrug, whatever. For someone who's making a new shell with less geared players, I do think primary, secondary, etc jobs or items is worth considering, and furthermore, it should be considered for people like us in newer events like Abyssea, no? I mean, I pass on gear others need more than I due to Sam being my "main" job, and I expect them to show me the same courtesy anyway, but we don't really have a point system in Abyssea atm. If we did though, I'd like to see that incorporated. Also, I have no qualms coming on jobs other than Sam (well, I didn't at 75, due to relic trials, just getting back from a 4 day vacation, and not focusing on leveling a single job to 80 after Sam, but switching as was needed from party to party, I'm kinda still stuck with 1 80), but really putting me on XYZ support so someone else can hop on their NQed out DD is a bit silly in the end.