Dear Ganiman, Gahoo, Mierin, and Wikia

[Dank]

I'd like to point out that it's very possible (given Ganiman's utter disregard for being truthful to FFXIclopedia users) that 9,000 and some odd dollars might not have been the real amount of donations. :O What if he actually received 15k in donations, and just pocketed the rest?

Stuff you pull out of thin air is far from 'very' possible. Let's not get stupid and make stuff up to get outraged over. Actually I think we've more or less run out of things to attack apart from Kaslo's irretrivably poor defense of Ganiman's actions.

All I'm saying is it's worth looking into, there's not much that Taj can't get obviously. I'm just saying I don't believe a single word Ganiman says, and he is the person who got the donations in his paypal account.

[S N K]

Oh, and posting in this thread has become like claiming nm's. You keep getting beaten to the claim, and when you do claim you get shit for drops anyway.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/images/it...erfeit-Gil.jpg

[Khamsin]

2. Using donated money for unintended purpose: Actually this seems that it could have been used to it's intended purposes

But Kaslo, everyone here knows it wasn't. Even Ganiman himself didn't use all the money for what he promised it to be used for.

Kaslo may be right, actually. It's intended purpose was to pay for Ganiman's personal entertainment and luxury, and Ganiman did use it for that purpose. It may not be the purpose he explicitly stated to the public, but deep down, it was the intended purpose.

[Kaslo]

No I say there is not enough evidence because I have not heard from both sides. And no I'm not saying thier shopped I am saying there could be a valid arguement on Gani's side that hasn't been presented. It's similar to the Duke case where all the media and public persecuted them without even allowing them to defend themselves.

Mani, I agree that if he just pocketed it for no good reason then that's wrong, but that hasn't been proven in my eyes. And from my view of the timeline the donations were needed for the upkeep of the website because at the time no agreement had been reached between him and wikia but I may have that messed up. Also, we do that $6000 of it was spent on what it was suppose to. If he had a valid reason to pocket the money based on the upkeep of wiki there is a non-issue.

Ess, I do like to play DA, but here I wanted to point out some legal flaws in arguements here (because some people wanted legal action). The other side is I personally don't know enough to allow myself to condemn Gani, I would need some more-concrete evidence against him.

And if you want to be so critical of what a court would hold, note that you need to CITE A CASE that proves your side before there is anything for me to cite against.

Those who cry about some punctuation realize I did not sit down to write a brief or a memo here so not everything is perfect, and just like other students law students aren't all writing geniuses, we use word and it's squiggly lines like everyone else ;p

[Alistaire]

Comprehension into seeing outside of what you think you're seeing will go a long way with you if you consider that not everyone looks for the sun to shine on a rainy day.

OK so at least we have poetic justice on our side.

Edit: p.32 claim...for great justice!

[klvino]

If you do something fucking stupid on the internet and then lie about it, part of the consequence is that you'll be called out for it. It's one of the lawls of the internet jungle. People defending what took place is like saying, "go easy on them, they're handicapped." Handicapped people aren't cut any breaks or shown sympathy online since we're all on the same playing field. A lion in Africa isn't going to avoid eating a gazelle cause it's "slow", they get their shit chewed first. Nor would I expect anyone online to go soft on someone especially when they're clearly responsible for a colossal clusterfuck.

They fucked up, this is consequence. Clean, plain, simple.

[*Shinzon*]

If you can't write you shouldn't be in law school. You can get into a Law school without taking a single law class just on the basis of knowing how to write. No offense but thats the way I was taught and I'll hold every other law professional to that same standard.

[S N K]

No I say there is not enough evidence because I have not heard from both sides. And no I'm not saying thier shopped I am saying there could be a valid arguement on Gani's side that hasn't been presented.

If that was the case Kaslo he should have manned up a long time ago before this and said something. He has an account here along with his Vice-Admin so it's not impossible for him to actually say something but he won't.

FFXI is a very tight-knit community of players. Ganiman was able to from a large amount of people's viewpoint, profit off that for his own gain on the wiki.

He acts like him and his admins were the ones who did all the work when it should be considered that the wiki was kept & maintained by a lot of dedicated fans and players of this game. When people found out their work was being sold off to line someone else's pockets and even more so when Ganiman and his crew were questioned about it, they backed out of saying outright anything and wouldn't even discuss the donation money they got from those people.

Of course people are outright fucking pissed off and I would be also. There's a life's lesson which held true years ago and even holds true today.

You do not fuck around with other people's money. You can seriously get your ass beat for that kind of stupid shit.

~S N K

[aurik]

Kaslo, you're missing the facts:


Fact 1: There was money "missing" from the Wiki Fundraiser. This proves some misappropriation of funds occurred.
Fact 2: Ganiman has control of the fundraiser funds.
Fact 3: Ganiman asks Gil to "chip in" missing funds and attempts to conceal it from the people who donated. This shows mens rea, guilty mind.

Guess what, those 3 add up to Ganiman committing embezzlement.

[sirelrohir]

Sorry I only brought out the major legalities because people were crying for lawsuits from fraud or breach of contract or w/e.

However you are attacking my opinion, which is, without more evidence, I don't think what Gani did was wrong plain and simple. I believe that he acted in wiki and his best interest, both of which anyone would do in the same situation. However, this issue does arise in the money, which I don't feel may be wrong. He may have accidentally used them from his own fund which may be negligent or he could have re-imbursed himself which I don't have a problem with. (I reitterate only because people seem to attack me without viewing my reasoning)

And I don't see why conceleing business discussion is so outrageous. It's common priciple that you don't discuss the innerworkings of a company to the general public, just like how you don't disclose every little thing you do with your family. Should we require people to disclose how often their meals are cooked at home or how much they have sex with thier partner? In this case alot of the situations were ones where, "I think I'm gonna do this, but don't let it out publicly" this is like telling a friend, "I think I may leave my wife but don't tell anyone" the reason being is A. It's not final and B. revealing it could lead to outcry's even though it's only a possiblility and not a certainty.

But as always I must stand by my ~opinion~ because nothing has been offered to change it, only allowed for more questions that should be answered.

Actually when you are talking about the bigger companies, they general public may not need to know about it, however the stockholders do. Think ENRON, but by your mindset you would probably consider what they did ok. Considering his site is built upon OTHER people's information and OTHER people's money (donations) he should be answerable to anyone that has ever contributed to his site.

Now kaslo, i dont know you, but do you have some kind of stake in ganiman's company? Law school or not, i think common sense would prevail here, but for some reason in your case it isnt.

Now, explain this to me: He took in donations so he wouldnt have to move to wikia. A deal came up, and he took the deal. However, after the deal was finalized, his website was still asking for donations to not move to wikia?

On top of that, the missing 2K+ that was in his bank account, then not in his bank account? I'm sure there are lawyers that are just a tad brighter then you that could probably make a case out of this. If anything it could force them to settle to offset court costs on their part, which would be justice enough imo.

[Stromgarde]

You say you need to see both parties' perspective. Well, let's take the case of Enron for example. When the thing first broke, did they:

A) Admit to hiding losses and cooking books
B) Lie their asses off
C) Keep quiet

I'll give you a hint, it's not A!

[Correction]

If he had a valid reason to pocket the money based on the upkeep of wiki there is a non-issue.

He never said he spent the remaining money on things unrelated to the Wiki one way or the other. Furthermore there are no real good ways he could justify simply pocketing the money for 'upkeep' since that's what the leasing of the physical servers was supposed to be, upkeep. He could have paid himself for the work he did on the software side of things but that wasn't part of the agreement he set forth with the donators. Fact: Ganiman can't account for over two thousand dollars of donated money. His continued failure to do so in the light of Taj's evidence isn't proof that he's a thief but it's enough to get angry about. I can't believe this still flies over your head.

Those who cry about some punctuation realize I did not sit down to write a brief or a memo here so not everything is perfect, and just like other students law students aren't all writing geniuses, we use word and it's squiggly lines like everyone else ;p

And yet you continue to post as if you're trying to prove things to other people from your viewpoint as an up-and-coming legal professional. You typed it; We're going to read it. And if you type like a 12 year-old girl texting her bff jill without actually contributing anything to the discussion other than the world's longest 'nuh-uh' then we're going to laugh at you. Welcome to BG Forums.

[S N K]

Kaslo, you're missing the facts:


Fact 1: There was money "missing" from the Wiki Fundraiser. This proves some misappropriation of funds occurred.
Fact 2: Ganiman has control of the fundraiser funds.
Fact 3: Ganiman asks Gil to "chip in" missing funds and attempts to conceal it from the people who donated. This shows mens rea, guilty mind.

Guess what, those 3 add up to Ganiman committing embezzlement.

Aurik,
It's not so much as facts as I think he's intenionally ignoring common sense for gain of trying to make a mountain out of molehill when there is a large enough amount of evidence to already support that Ganiman should have never been trusted with anything he's done.

Losing a job yeah I can understand that but honestly it shouldn't be a gateway for you to take money that was never givin to you to abuse outside of it's intended purpose.

[Alistaire]

Mani, I agree that if he just pocketed it for no good reason then that's wrong, but that hasn't been proven in my eyes. And from my view of the timeline the donations were needed for the upkeep of the website because at the time no agreement had been reached between him and wikia but I may have that messed up. Also, we do that $6000 of it was spent on what it was suppose to. If he had a valid reason to pocket the money based on the upkeep of wiki there is a non-issue.

No Kaslo, when Kaniman got the offer from wikia he could've easily said "hey guys, I got an offer to sell to wikia, then you won't need to donate and I can even send back the donations given!" But no, he decided to continue receiving donations while secretly telling other people "let's hold out for a better offer then sell".

[Kaslo]

Now, explain this to me: He took in donations so he wouldnt have to move to wikia. A deal came up, and he took the deal. However, after the deal was finalized, his website was still asking for donations to not move to wikia?

On top of that, the missing 2K+ that was in his bank account, then not in his bank account? I'm sure there are lawyers that are just a tad brighter then you that could probably make a case out of this. If anything it could force them to settle to offset court costs on their part, which would be justice enough imo.

did it explicitly say he did the fundraiser to avoid moving to wikia or simply the upkeep of the site? I was under the belief that it was the latter. He didn't need to remove it the second the deal was made but within a reasonable time. If he didn't then yeah there is an issue there.

Now I'm not saying a case can be made, because a case can be made out of anything, just saying that a viable case with a good chance of victory can't be made imo.

Ali, You say for yourself there was no agreement made and he wanted to "hold out for more money" which meant that wikia at that time would not be gaining wikia and thus the money would be needed for the upkeep. Just because he's negotiation doesn't mean it's a done deal.


And sorry Shin but there is very little writing involved in applying for law school. There is one essay on the LSAT that is meant to measure you analysis of the issue not how well you write. Even then minor mistakes are overlooked because when put into a word processor you can catch them. For the most part the major thing that get's you into law school is logical analysis.

[aurik]

For the most part the major thing that get's you into law school is logical analysis.

So where's your logical analysis of Ganiman's 'disappearance' of $2300 of ffcyclopedia funds and subsequent attempted cover-up?

[S N K]

For the most part the major thing that get's you into law school is logical analysis.

So where's your logical analysis of Ganiman's 'disappearance' of $2300 of ffcyclopedia funds and subsequent attempted cover-up?

[Tristam]

Now, explain this to me: He took in donations so he wouldnt have to move to wikia. A deal came up, and he took the deal. However, after the deal was finalized, his website was still asking for donations to not move to wikia?

On top of that, the missing 2K+ that was in his bank account, then not in his bank account? I'm sure there are lawyers that are just a tad brighter then you that could probably make a case out of this. If anything it could force them to settle to offset court costs on their part, which would be justice enough imo.

did it explicitly say he did the fundraiser to avoid moving to wikia or simply the upkeep of the site? I was under the belief that it was the latter. He didn't need to remove it the second the deal was made but within a reasonable time. If he didn't then yeah there is an issue there.

Now I'm not saying a case can be made, because a case can be made out of anything, just saying that a viable case with a good chance of victory can't be made imo.

Ali, You say for yourself there was no agreement made and he wanted to "hold out for more money" which meant that wikia at that time would not be gaining wikia and thus the money would be needed for the upkeep. Just because he's negotiation doesn't mean it's a done deal.


And sorry Shin but there is very little writing involved in applying for law school. There is one essay on the LSAT that is meant to measure you analysis of the issue not how well you write. Even then minor mistakes are overlooked because when put into a word processor you can catch them. For the most part the major thing that get's you into law school is logical analysis.

There is no facepalm graphic large enough to express how I feel....

Ganiman initially said he didn't want to move to wikia, and needed the fundraiser to keep the site up and running fast. After a few months he then said: wow! Actually guys wikia is really cool! They're gonna be letting us do what we wanna do afterall! We totally misunderstood them!

Translated: Wiki gave me 200 large in stock: Cha-ching! Thanks for providing me with the finances to keep the site up while I held out for more money! Later losers!

[Alistaire]

For the most part the major thing that get's you into law school is logical analysis.

The irony of this is about as thick as your head right now. Just back off, forget everything you typed here, and maybe (just maybe) the things you've said won't end up in a dozen people's signatures here like the "for granite" comment. Then later, once you've forgotten everything you think you know on this subject, come back. Read the op, read the additional info from irc screenshots and everything brought to the table on this, and try and understand that people are rightly more concerned with the fact they were lied to and cheated than whether or not they can prove it in court. Hell, ask for a quoted tl;dr version if you need to and can't trust someone to summarize it in their own words without putting a spin on it. Then if you still don't get it, just treat it like an inside joke you stumble upon and move on without needing to "get it." Got it?

[Sasarai]

Now, explain this to me: He took in donations so he wouldnt have to move to wikia. A deal came up, and he took the deal. However, after the deal was finalized, his website was still asking for donations to not move to wikia?

On top of that, the missing 2K+ that was in his bank account, then not in his bank account? I'm sure there are lawyers that are just a tad brighter then you that could probably make a case out of this. If anything it could force them to settle to offset court costs on their part, which would be justice enough imo.

did it explicitly say he did the fundraiser to avoid moving to wikia or simply the upkeep of the site? I was under the belief that it was the latter. He didn't need to remove it the second the deal was made but within a reasonable time. If he didn't then yeah there is an issue there.

Now I'm not saying a case can be made, because a case can be made out of anything, just saying that a viable case with a good chance of victory can't be made imo.

Ali, You say for yourself there was no agreement made and he wanted to "hold out for more money" which meant that wikia at that time would not be gaining wikia and thus the money would be needed for the upkeep. Just because he's negotiation doesn't mean it's a done deal.


And sorry Shin but there is very little writing involved in applying for law school. There is one essay on the LSAT that is meant to measure you analysis of the issue not how well you write. Even then minor mistakes are overlooked because when put into a word processor you can catch them. For the most part the major thing that get's you into law school is logical analysis.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7...6293700503.jpg