Concern about BG Wiki

[Reij]

I've known BG to be a site about endgame. A BG wiki would surely contain a lot of information about various endgame activities. However, endgame activities are not why I play the game. I play the game for the history of vanadiel, the main stories, side stories, characters and all the little details about vanadiel. What I like about ffxiclopedia is that it contains these storyline and character info that BG and other endgamers dont care about. So I'm concerned that a BG Wiki would only contain endgame info.

[thestalkmore]

viewforum.php?f=47

and

http://www.allakhazam.com

[skurlover]

Nah, there will be everything afaik. Secondly, its not like FFXIcylopedia is going under. It just got bought out and most of the BG crowd wants nothing to do with it now after a 40 page drama fest.

You just won't see much editing of FFXIclopedia from BG members anymore.

[Varg]

not to be mean, but with elmer and brp around - don't see why this would be a concern.....I too love the history and quests and I would gladly help if A.) I knew what the hell I was doing and B.) BRP wasn't doing it. Hell, the stuff Elmer posts ends up trickling down to other places, so its not as if BG is devoid of vana'diel's history.

[Charismatic]

If I didn't suck at editing wikipedia and wasn't too lazy to learn... I'd be all over that shit as well.

[EdgeMoragan]

Somehow I knew this topic would appear somewhere. Its great how being effective and knowledgable in game mechanics automatically makes you an elite-monger who has forgotten about game plot. Not like whats been mentioned above (such as elmer's subsection)- you know, EXISTS or anything.

[BRP]

Somehow I knew this topic would appear somewhere. Its great how being effective and knowledgable in game mechanics automatically makes you an elite-monger who has forgotten about game plot. Not like whats been mentioned above (such as elmer's subsection)- you know, EXISTS or anything.

Pankration section doesn't exist either!


BG forums is probably a better source for "lore" and information on quests than just about any other forum I can think of...

[Zarath]

BG forums is probably a better source for "lore" and information on quests than just about any other forum I can think of...

I know all of my knowledge of vana'diel history is from here, it's a nice read from time to time

[Khamsin]

Nah, there will be everything afaik. Secondly, its not like FFXIcylopedia is going under. It just got bought out and most of the BG crowd wants nothing to do with it now after a 40 page drama fest.

You just won't see much editing of FFXIclopedia from BG members anymore.

In other words, it'll be alla-maintained.

[Yutuyu]

I used to think BGers didn't give a crap about Lore, and a lot of them don't. But there are enough of them that DO care and will help maintain the Wiki, that I don't think it'll be lacking in any way.

[Ish]

I don't post much, but I've been a member a long, long time. This is the only FFXI page I frequent for info outside of the old Wiki. While I'm certain what I'm quasi-suggesting is a little out of sorts, I wanted to bring up that in one thing, Ganiman does have a point. He wanted to make he and the admins wanted to benefit from the work they did. So should the up and coming BG wiki. To wit, how much possibility is there in allowing the BG wiki to only be accessed/updated by BG members?

I'm sure percentage-wise it's probably .01% but, let's look at it this way. Why should Alla be allowed to benefit from BG *or* why should the people at the new wikiffxi bullshit shoveling feces loving backstabbing thieves (oh my goodness, turrets) not just log into the BG wiki for their updates? It seems that since we as endgame players are better at disseminating new information on a much larger scale than the other FFXI websites, wouldn't it be unseemly to allow that same effort to go into a Wiki that would simply be pirated to another source? Isn't that the kind of raging douchebaggery that the good ol' folks at the Wiki would take advantage of?

Anyway, I don't pretend to know the answers to half of the questions in this post. Maybe some of it merits discussion, then again, likely not.

[Khamsin]

I don't post much, but I've been a member a long, long time. This is the only FFXI page I frequent for info outside of the old Wiki. While I'm certain what I'm quasi-suggesting is a little out of sorts, I wanted to bring up that in one thing, Ganiman does have a point. He wanted to make he and the admins wanted to benefit from the work they did. So should the up and coming BG wiki. To wit, how much possibility is there in allowing the BG wiki to only be accessed/updated by BG members?

I'm sure percentage-wise it's probably .01% but, let's look at it this way. Why should Alla be allowed to benefit from BG *or* why should the people at the new wikiffxi bullshit shoveling feces loving backstabbing thieves (oh my goodness, turrets) not just log into the BG wiki for their updates? It seems that since we as endgame players are better at disseminating new information on a much larger scale than the other FFXI websites, wouldn't it be unseemly to allow that same effort to go into a Wiki that would simply be pirated to another source? Isn't that the kind of raging douchebaggery that the good ol' folks at the Wiki would take advantage of?

Anyway, I don't pretend to know the answers to half of the questions in this post. Maybe some of it merits discussion, then again, likely not.

Well, limiting it to BG members would be a bit restrictive, but the BG forum community would be acceptable. I suggested elsewhere tying BG forum accounts to the BG wiki accounts, and limiting edits to those with a certain postcount (something trivial, like 100). It could be possible to limit viewing to those with certain postcounts, as well. If edits/views were limited to 100-postcount or above, it'd keep out people who don't frequent BG and deter vandalism. There are people who lurk more than post who still make valuable contributions when they do post, so that's why I wouldn't suggest anything much more than 50-100 posts... just enough to ensure someone didn't just make an account 10 minutes ago to check out or edit the wiki.

[Zarath]

I don't post much, but I've been a member a long, long time. This is the only FFXI page I frequent for info outside of the old Wiki. While I'm certain what I'm quasi-suggesting is a little out of sorts, I wanted to bring up that in one thing, Ganiman does have a point. He wanted to make he and the admins wanted to benefit from the work they did. So should the up and coming BG wiki. To wit, how much possibility is there in allowing the BG wiki to only be accessed/updated by BG members?

I'm sure percentage-wise it's probably .01% but, let's look at it this way. Why should Alla be allowed to benefit from BG *or* why should the people at the new wikiffxi bullshit shoveling feces loving backstabbing thieves (oh my goodness, turrets) not just log into the BG wiki for their updates? It seems that since we as endgame players are better at disseminating new information on a much larger scale than the other FFXI websites, wouldn't it be unseemly to allow that same effort to go into a Wiki that would simply be pirated to another source? Isn't that the kind of raging douchebaggery that the good ol' folks at the Wiki would take advantage of?

Anyway, I don't pretend to know the answers to half of the questions in this post. Maybe some of it merits discussion, then again, likely not.

Though you do make a good point, I think it would be more beneficial to leave it open to the public. The current situation, yes Taj did give them a big hit, but the fact is the wiki is still there with all it's information. What the new BG Wiki needs is to win the greater population's hearts so to speak. Right now if one were to close editing right to a large majority of the population we'd essentially lose out on a lot of potential people as well leave a distaste of "elitism" in people's mind.

Essentially, BG Wiki will be at competition with ffxicylopedia, and whoever plays their cards right will become the better wiki.

[Zalius]

make a forum section specifically for the wiki and instant ban any actual allakatards (not the good ones, just, you know, THE allakatards)

[Ish]

Though you do make a good point, I think it would be more beneficial to leave it open to the public. The current situation, yes Taj did give them a big hit, but the fact is the wiki is still there with all it's information. What the new BG Wiki needs is to win the greater population's hearts so to speak. Right now if one were to close editing right to a large majority of the population we'd essentially lose out on a lot of potential people as well leave a distaste of "elitism" in people's mind.

Essentially, BG Wiki will be at competition with ffxicylopedia, and whoever plays their cards right will become the better wiki.

Well, wait a minute. Win over the hearts of the greater population? The greater population of who? You are *never* going to win over people at Alla. It's the simple truth, because there are so many different mindsets to playing the game. Some people are competitive, some people aren't. Generally speaking the two types can play the same game but never philosophically meet. That isn't a matter of winning them over. It's about being completely superior to the wikiffxicyclopedia in every way. In which case, why wouldnt the wiki people just steal from BG?

Further, the amount of advertising that the people at wikipedia offer is so much more than what BG can offer (not to mention from a playerbase perception standpoint) that you'd never pull people to the BG wiki in droves. If that's the case, why not make it exclusive for the people who post here, come here for their info, update the BGwiki, and want BG to succeed as opposed to "where can I get the info fastest".

As to elitism well... if elitist means "not the dumbest fuck in the room" then I'm an elitist. And proud of it.

[Zarath]

Well, wait a minute. Win over the hearts of the greater population? The greater population of who? You are *never* going to win over people at Alla. It's the simple truth, because there are so many different mindsets to playing the game. Some people are competitive, some people aren't. Generally speaking the two types can play the same game but never philosophically meet. That isn't a matter of winning them over. It's about being completely superior to the wikiffxicyclopedia in every way. In which case, why wouldnt the wiki people just steal from BG?

Further, the amount of advertising that the people at wikipedia offer is so much more than what BG can offer (not to mention from a playerbase perception standpoint) that you'd never pull people to the BG wiki in droves. If that's the case, why not make it exclusive for the people who post here, come here for their info, update the BGwiki, and want BG to succeed as opposed to "where can I get the info fastest".

As to elitism well... if elitist means "not the dumbest fuck in the room" then I'm an elitist. And proud of it.

Just see elitism and already zammited. Read and realize what I say before saying anything.

The fact that not entire population could be privy to what Taj has revealed. The words "Why recreate the wheel" comes to mind, if we maintain a wiki of just BG members what's really the point? Most of the information I've read on these forums are already compiled into my mind and organized, but those who visit the BG wiki, what about them? They see one supported by SE, another one just supported by people of this forum, a choice will be made then and that is where I feel that a BG only wiki will fail in comparison to ffxicylopedia.

There aren't two population of ffxi players, zammites and us (and maybe KI) but there's a many players that probably don't post, or read anything on those forums and just use the wiki as a reference material.

You say "It's about being completely superior to the wikiffxicyclopedia in every way." and how do we become superior if we only cater to BG, not much of a win if you ask me... What I'm thinking is total defeat of ffxicylopdia, not being just superior but rather a wiki that will take over ffxicylopedia. And yes catering to a specific set of people is rather pompous attitude....

[Khamsin]

The BG wiki doesn't have to impress anyone but BG. Given that its non-profit, and there's bound to be limited bandwidth, the fewer people using it, the better. This isn't BGcorp trying to take over the world. It's a BG wiki maintained and utilized by the BG forum community.

It doesn't need to impress alla. It doesn't need to impress KI. It doesn't need to convert all former FFXIclopedia users to BG wiki.

It just needs to be a wiki that this community can contribute to and benefit from, containing information that this community thinks is important.

Keep the scope of the BG wiki in mind, and don't fret about whether it'll appeal to the entire FFXI community. Just be concerned about whether it'll appeal to the BG forum community. Who cares about anyone else?

[Zarath]

But where's the fun in that ; ;

[Spoony Bob]

I'd thought this idea of a BG wiki was supposed to be an alternative to ffxiclopedia so the entire FFXI community wouldn't have to associate with the slugs responsible for this whole fiasco.

[Eaglestrike]

If bandwidth was going to be some form of issue, I wouldn't mind the wiki to only be for the BG community. But if that isn't an issue I don't see why it shouldn't be public.