Concern about BG Wiki

[Bagel]

On the topic of memes, what about drama? Or notable/infamous players?

[Xavier]

We'll work out the details soon, but I imagine its ok as long as they're on entirely seperate pages and don't show up on any actual information pages.

[Tricen]

What's with the upside down shoe and hat?

[Bagel]

I dunno, but I love the upside down calligae and chapeau

Also, I can't wait for the vandalism on the hypothetical Ryko page.

[Lujei]

For example, if I was to look to a page with Tiamat, I don't want to see anything about Fire Crystals, I want to see her abilities, possibly an assumed HP, spawn times, and the total drop list.

a. make up your mind



b. people fighting tiamat don't wanna see anything about fire crystals either, but not much choice eh? welcome to ffxi

While this question has been cleared up by an above post, this was meant about the whole Fire Crystal shit. I, personally, don't want to see a reference to "lolFireCrystal" or other such things that the NM has surrounding it, rather an entire list of drops. But as I said, it's been cleared up and said not to be on the main page, so it isn't even worth debating.

[Milkymallards]

Basically if you want a good answer, do the following before you make a post:
1. Use the search function.
2. Post in the correct forum.

Absolutely true of course, but I like the idea of gathering all of this information into one easily-navigated volume, with relevant links drawn between things that maybe somebody searching forums wouldn't even have considered. Condensing multiple pages of debate into one thought-out, unified article drawn from all those viewpoints makes everything much more accessible too. Also, as Xavier pointed out, it allows for the knowledge to be separated from the argument and for a neutral environment for those uninitiated to the forum to get what they are looking for.

In short, I think this is going to be good.

[Ryko]

I dunno, but I love the upside down calligae and chapeau

Also, I can't wait for the vandalism on the hypothetical Ryko page.

In before 13 year olds who think theyre cool for using the n bomb.

[Zarath]

What's with the upside down shoe and hat?

Rocl's Super robot thingy, I forget the name of it
Main page news thing, like 3 months back

[evilbau]

We'll work out the details soon, but I imagine its ok as long as they're on entirely seperate pages and don't show up on any actual information pages.

does that mean no mention of map on the n.sash page? haha

[Amele]

I mentioned this in the other announcement thread, but I guess it makes more sense here:

Why isn't the BGwiki GFDL? Not to get too much of a free vs. proprietary argument, but I don't see any benefit to closing off the wiki. Plus, if it's GFDL, that means that BGwiki can instantly copy any and all of the useful data the community has already put into ffxiclopedia (with no legal worries) without having to try to reinvent the wheel with a mega-thesaurus to avoid legal gotchas.

Plus, the ultimate accountability to the community is being able to take our community knowledge and move on if things go sour (see: current events). Not that I doubt BG admins' intent, but sh*t happens; people quit the game (or have to quit), free hosting deals change, etc. For all the negatives about the ffxiclopedia deal, the one good thing is that their choice to go GFDL from the start means that they can't lock up the community's work.

I have to wonder why BGwiki isn't GFDL, Sonomaa mentioned something about BGwiki being a "don't steal our shit" license, but it would make life a lot simpler if BGwiki was GFDL and we could get all the content we contributed to FFXIwiki (with a link back for attribution, as the GFDL requires).

GNU is better than GFDL for our purposes I think. (the biggest one being since it's *not* GFDL the other wiki can't copy the ridills and shit over.)

we can go to the original source for most of the mundane stuff anyway (somepage etc) and there wasn't alot of significant research on the other wiki that BGWiki won't have the original authors for anyway; so we're pretty much set there too.

[Spider-Dan]

I mentioned this in the other announcement thread, but I guess it makes more sense here:

Why isn't the BGwiki GFDL? Not to get too much of a free vs. proprietary argument, but I don't see any benefit to closing off the wiki. Plus, if it's GFDL, that means that BGwiki can instantly copy any and all of the useful data the community has already put into ffxiclopedia (with no legal worries) without having to try to reinvent the wheel with a mega-thesaurus to avoid legal gotchas.

Plus, the ultimate accountability to the community is being able to take our community knowledge and move on if things go sour (see: current events). Not that I doubt BG admins' intent, but sh*t happens; people quit the game (or have to quit), free hosting deals change, etc. For all the negatives about the ffxiclopedia deal, the one good thing is that their choice to go GFDL from the start means that they can't lock up the community's work.

I have to wonder why BGwiki isn't GFDL, Sonomaa mentioned something about BGwiki being a "don't steal our shit" license, but it would make life a lot simpler if BGwiki was GFDL and we could get all the content we contributed to FFXIwiki (with a link back for attribution, as the GFDL requires).

GNU is better than GFDL for our purposes I think. (the biggest one being since it's *not* GFDL the other wiki can't copy the ridills and shit over.)

I'm not sure what you mean by "GNU".

GFDL = GNU Free Documentation License

http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html

There is no GNU license that I know of that would prohibit ffxiclopedia from copying back (since that's pretty much the antithesis of what the Free Software Foundation is about).

Furthermore, to reply to the upstream poster, the GFDL requires no link for attribution:

2. VERBATIM COPYING

You may copy and distribute the Document in any medium, either
commercially or noncommercially, provided that this License, the
copyright notices, and the license notice saying this License applies
to the Document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add no other
conditions whatsoever to those of this License. You may not use
technical measures to obstruct or control the reading or further
copying of the copies you make or distribute. However, you may accept
compensation in exchange for copies. If you distribute a large enough
number of copies you must also follow the conditions in section 3.

You may also lend copies, under the same conditions stated above, and
you may publicly display copies.

You don't have to provide any attribution to ffxiclopedia at all. All that you must do is include a copy of the GFDL license on the website, so that other downstream readers have the same rights to copy that you did. This is the fundamental spirit of all the FSF licenses.

[Khamsin]

We'll work out the details soon, but I imagine its ok as long as they're on entirely seperate pages and don't show up on any actual information pages.

does that mean no mention of map on the n.sash page? haha

Under the N.Sash page, you could just put a little section on recommended jobs who should get lotting priority. Like NIN/WAR > DRK/PLD/BST/THF/PUP/BLU/COR > WHM/BLM/RDM/SMN/BRD > RNG/MNK > DRG.

[Bagel]

I find that very unfair, since DRG can't equip swift belt.

[Khamsin]

Oh, ok... bump them up a tier to be with the RNGs and MNKs, then.

As for the copying of FFXIclopedia, we could probably prohibit people copying from BG wiki, and then just copy over from FFXIclopedia only those things that the BG community had a hand in. We should be safe, then.

[alphacat]

Don't do that, it's retarded. Every LS should figure out their own way of distribution instead of following some sort of 'recommanded priority'.

[Spider-Dan]

As for the copying of FFXIclopedia, we could probably prohibit people copying from BG wiki, and then just copy over from FFXIclopedia only those things that the BG community had a hand in. We should be safe, then.

Yeah, we could, but I don't understand the point.

I don't understand what the goal of preventing ffxiclopedia from copying BGwiki would be. The information itself would still be freely available on various forums (including this one); any ffxic poster would just have to state it in their own words. However, the danger of a non-free license is great; in the current situation, had ffxic went with a non-free license, Ganiman could have sold the site to, say, IGN, who could then turn around and charge the community to access it. Using a free doc license precludes such an event.

Put rather simply: making BGwiki non-free would accomplish nothing and would open up a potentially HUGE problem (an event that would make the current ffxic scandal look like Monica Lewinsky compared to Iraq), while making BGwiki free would have no drawbacks and would save thousands of hours of time (in addition to avoiding any claims of copying ffxic).

[Plow]

We'll work out the details soon, but I imagine its ok as long as they're on entirely seperate pages and don't show up on any actual information pages.

does that mean no mention of map on the n.sash page? haha

See that's the thing, and this applies to the fire crystal thing too.


Even if they aren't going to allow stuff like "instantly makes you one of the most renowned players in the game," a Tiamat page without at least links to fire crystal crap and a fafnir page without links to a fafnir drama page wouldn't be worthy of the name "bgwiki." imo of course...

[Thevaultdweller]

Maybe at the bottom of such pages, there could be a "Memes and/or drama associated with this subject" section, and it could hotlink to explanation pages? (For example, a Fafnir page with a hotlink at the bottom to an article about "Throw Some Ridills On Some Shit" and a second hotlink to a page which explains why Fafnir is often a source of drama.)

[Gere]

Oh, ok... bump them up a tier to be with the RNGs and MNKs, then.

As for the copying of FFXIclopedia, we could probably prohibit people copying from BG wiki, and then just copy over from FFXIclopedia only those things that the BG community had a hand in. We should be safe, then.

Still unfair since dragoons can't equip accuracy gear.

[Chupunpupun]

I find that very unfair, since DRG can't equip swift belt.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/c/c9/SwiftBelt.png
?