Sam merit priority

[alphacat]

Ok, I recently decided to take up sam again, which I got to 75 a while back, and never touched again. I know what to merit, I just don't know which order.

Basically now, I have no sam merit, and I'm planning on maxing out:
Overwhelm, GKT skill, store tp, meditate

I currently have full crit, but nothing else, I'm wondering which one I should work on next.

Sorry about such a nub question since sam is my only melee job ._.

[Niiro]

I recommend throwing a few points into GKT first since they're cheap, then

Overwhelm > Med > Finish GKT > Store TP

Store TP merits exist to accomplish a 6 hit setup which will only benefit you in situations where you can spam WS like mad (read: not all). Overwhelm gives the most apparent and significant improvement and a shorter Med recast is also very useful for HNM situations where there's not always something to TP off of.

Store TP merits only become useful at level 4 (or 5, depending) and offer the least significant improvement IMO since you won't be using your TP at 100% all the time.

[hyuuga]

Depends on what you use your sam for and what job you get those merits from. If you use sam to merit like I do, I get store-tp first to break free from those horrible hachiman pieces, solely for the purpose of using better gear to perform better in merit PTs. I meritted GKT skill before lvling sam so nothing i can tell you there. Meditate vs. Overwhelm i'd get meditate first and then Overwhelm for those HNM events.

[Alibeemac]

I have:
Level 5 Med (Made this my first Priority since my SAM is for end game only)
Level 5 Store TP
Level 3 Overwhelm (3rd Priority cause it rocks)
Level 1 Shikikoyo (Won't reduce recast time on this since I don't like to share my Tp =p )
Level 1 Ikishoten
Level 1 Blade Bash (Just to have it even tho it is worthless >.> )
Level 8 Great Katana (2nd Priority behind Med but if you have NIN at 75 I would cap this out before hitting 75 on SAM)
Level 4 Crit Hit+
Level 4 Enemy Crit Hit

Probably dumping some merits into GKT skill is advisable as a starter since SAMs like to whiff sometimes and the delay til next hit sucks. I dinged into Justice Torque so never had a huge issue with Acc but it's definately something that should be addressed early especially now with the 2H update where SAMs sub /WAR instead of /THF on HNMs so there is no guaranteed hit with SA. Honestly tho Capped GKT, Med and Overwhelm is enough for what you need. The rest are just to pimp your SAM out.

[Yutuyu]

Blade Bash is a lot less worthless than it used to be now that the stun procs reliable. Even still, it's not worth maxing, but 1 merit in it can't hurt. With as high as accuracy is now adays, Zanshin for a 75 SAM with maxed GKT merits isn't gonna help very much, so Ikishoten is barely worth having. Shikikoyo is nice for events like Limbus, BCs, etc. but has very few practical uses in XP or anything casual. Full Store TP merits give an extra 1.5 TP per hit, that's nothing to scoff at.

Maxed meditate merits give you 12 meditates in 30 minutes. Without, you get 10. So it's an extra ~300% TP in a half an hour (given AF+1 helm & hands). Which means on average an extra 10 TP per minute. But because the TP is given in such large amounts it makes hate control harder, and in the end is less effective than Store TP.

Personally I'd go:

LV 8 GKT > Overwhelm LV 3 > Store TP > Meditate > 5 STR > LV 4 CRIT > Everything else

Crit doesn't effect WS.

[Amele]

5 meditate > 8Gkt/5storeTP/3overwhelm(in any order) > else.

if you don't want to build a six hit setup, don't merit store TP and merit something else instead in that category (honestly I'm not sure what I would do - maybe third eye recast ? 25 second third eyes sounds like it might have potential)

if you do sam/rng primarily, I might merit archery before gkt. (maybe)

you should have 4/4 crit before you hit 75 on sam if you have any 75 job.

if not, I would do crits first. they may not help weaponskill but they do alot for your dot.

[Martinius]

for me, i did this:
meditate maxed first. it's a little thing, but if you have both af1 head and af2 hands, every 5 minutes you have 300tp. is not a big deal, but on mobs like tiamat, khimaira, etc, where you're swapped in for ws only, it's very nice.

after that, max overwhelm. in fact, if you decide to wait on meditate, max overwhelm first then. 15% att bonus when facing the mob and the mob is facing you is basically a mini-assassin train, and prior to our little 'elemental weaponskill' patch, really made breaking up SA and TA a great thing. even still, it's a great bonus and very noticable.

then do store tp. i actually did this last because i wasn't playing sam much after a series of crap exp pts and being asked to sub nin or thf too much, but when i came back and explored haste and store tp builds, this is what really did it for me. basically will give you 10 store tp, so that with a 450 delay gkt, you only need +11 store tp in gear for a 6 hit build. some folks opt to swap in rutters/askar/hume rse2 feet for 3 str during their ws, and if you choose to do that, you'll need to melee in hachiman kote, which will get you a 6 hit build all the same. personally i opt to ws in hachiman feet(still working on the +1s ><). the next point is what you do with the rest of your gear... if you get your store tp with feet, either wear okote/bkote if you opt for an attack build, or dusk gloves if you're on a haste build(this is what i do personally). if you get your store tp from hands, either fumas for haste, or sam af2 for att, and b/c of the patch, acc. i spose you could wear the assault feet w/ the acc and att, but the name escapes me. it all becomes moot too if you get the salvage feet, since those have acc, att, haste, and +7 store tp on them lol.

after that, it's sort of a mix and match. i'd recommend capping gkt merits, since that will let you eat meat at more exp camps, as well as use more haste gear, which really helps up the damage we do in merit pts, and our tp gain in general.

i have one merit in shikikoyo, and honestly i'll probably max it b/c the other two don't appeal to me, and being able to give a skillchain partner tp in dynamis, or between windows while camping kings is always nice.

oh, and cap crit hits, it's freakin seksi

[Repairs]

My belief on any merit that lowers "reuse" time, is that they become somewhat limiting. To actually realize or see returns for these merits you must to 100% on-top of that "reuse" ability. I.e. Meditate: if you're meriting, you cannot waste a single second once med is available. So if you are afk, waiting for repop of sky gods, someone's not pulling, someone else is afk, or you simply loose track of med by 5-30sec's you are loosing out on those merits. Basically, if there is any down time more then the 30sec merits, they seem like wasted merits. I'm somewhat thinking Zashin instead...

Basic example of fully meritted, zashin/Iki versus Full Med/1Iki/random merit:

Base Theory:
5 sec/swing
17 base tp/hit

20 tp/hit zashin hit for meditate setup
26 tp/hit full zashin/iki hit

100 Static dam per hit
1000 Static dam per WS

0.5 base zashin rate
0.55 fully merited

......................... Meditate vs Zashin/Iki
30 min..................360.........360
90 acc...................324........324

Dam from hits.........32400......32400
# of WS for hits.......55.08.......55.08
Dam from WS..........55000......55000

Base Total Dam 87400 87400

Misses..................36..........36
Zashin rate.............18..........19.8
Zashin dam.............180........190
TP.......................360.........514.8
WS......................3............5
Total WS dam..........3000.......5000
Total Zashin Dam......3180.......5190

Meditate................12..........10
Average TP gain.......140........140
Total TP gained........1680.......1400
# WS....................16.8........14
Dam.....................16000......14000

Total....................106580....106590
Edit** format didn't stick... o well...

Not much difference for a continuous 30min fight. Meditate would loose out if you miss hitting meditate within that extra 30 sec. But, if you are always on top of using Meditate it will win out in the long run. My problem is that there is always some sort of down time...

[Amele]

50% base zanshin rate?

I'm sorry, that seems way high; do you have a link to research on zanshin proc rates?

the 'common' assumption is that it procs about as much as double attack, except on misses instead of all swings; which should make it only about 10%+merits+gear

[Repairs]

It's somewhere in these BG forums... I'll try to look for it when i get more time.

I think it was some tests on level 1 mobs though...

[Max™]

Zanshin, the only job trait that gets better the more you suck.

[Tiernin]

Zanshin, the only job trait that gets better the more you suck.

Pretty much the way I look at it.
med, overwelm, GK, store tp, another group two. Not sure where I will start though

[Shoju]

this is what ive done/plan to do:

Samurai (6/6 ~ 8/10):
Third eye recast -
Warding Circle recast -
Store TP effect - 3/5
Meditate recast - 5/5
Zanshin Attack Rate -

--- Group 2 ---

Shikikoyo - 3/3
Blade bash -
Ikishoten -
Overwhelm - 3/3



Others (7/8):
Enmity increase -
Enmity decrease - 3/4
crit hit rate - 4
enemy crit hit rate -
spell interruption rate -

and as for samurai combat: gkt 8/8 archery 4/4 (currently 2/8 and 0/4 cause ive been meriting/xping other jobs)


basicly what i did since my sam has been 75 (was my first job a couple years ago) i did the following in this order (or there abouts):

crits -> 4
meditate -> 5
-- new merits came in here roughly for my sam --
overwhelm -> 3
Shikikoyo -> 3
store tp -> 3(as stated above, going to 5)

reason why i did shikikoyo to max is because when i looked at the other abilities i weighed being able to give tp to tanks (ws for hate or chivalry) / DD (for SC's), or just getting rid of tp if i hit 300 on hagun by accident in any other situation, against having tp from Zanshin (i put 0 stock in zanshin, its just a "hey thats cool" kind of thing to me) or having blade bash to help my claiming ability. i took the former obviously, and havnt looked back since.

**edit: clearification

[Keston]

Glad the OP made this thread. My SAM is rapidly approaching 75 atm, and I'm looking forward to dumping some merits into the job. From what I have read here, will probably work on Overwhelm 3/3 (first for the ePeen), Shikikoyo 1/3, Store TP 5/5, Meditate 5/5, in that order. Already have STR 5/5 and Crit 4/4.

Thanks for the informative posts.

[Amele]

It's somewhere in these BG forums... I'll try to look for it when i get more time.

I think it was some tests on level 1 mobs though...

unless it involved a ton of -acc and blinding potions the miss rate was not high enough to generate a large enough sample pool I'm willing to bet (you'd need to do ~20,000 swings to get even 1,000 misses vs. level 1 mobs)

[alphacat]

Is there any way to tell the difference between zanshin and DA, or does DA not proc after you miss an attack?

[aurik]

Is there any way to tell the difference between zanshin and DA, or does DA not proc after you miss an attack?

no way to differentiate on a single extra swing. You can DA and then proc zanshins on either swing though.

[devildrifterX]

I believe you can tell with the TP return after you merit it, since i believe a Merited one will yield more TP. As for merit priority, i did Overwhelm, Store TP, GK and finishing meditate. depending on whatever gear you have, you can change it up, like if you have byakko's haidate, with the acc change you can do it last, or not having Raja's for 6 hit would put store TP last since there isn't much point in it unless you can make a 6 hit without it

[Toralyn]

GKT > Meditate/Overwhelm > Meditate/Overwhelm > Store TP > Iki..whatever > Shik..whatever is probably the best order overall. Obviously you'd want crit+ rate and STR merits at some point too.

[Resin]

5 meditate > 8Gkt/5storeTP/3overwhelm(in any order) > else.

This is the right answer.

A SAM's unique ability is to generate TP faster than anyone else (basically). Being able to meditate sooner and with AF2 hands makes you a better SAM. The next one would depend on what your primary roles are. If you do HNM stuff with a group that's centered around skillchains and you find yourself waiting for other melee a lot, then GK should probably be next. In most circumstances you want to be able to WS as soon as you can, (merit parties, meleeburn HNMs, etc) and 5/5 StoreTP does just that. GK and overwhelm makes you more accurate and hit harder, so both are quite nice to have. ^^