Dancer

[Spira]

stuff condensed to avoid wall-o-text quoting

I'd basically like to know what part of Songstress and Mog were the Dancer part. Are you simply saying Songstress was a Dancer because she wiggled her butt and did a little jig while singing? Despite the name, just because the animation shows a person dancing doesn't make it a Dancer (FF job). Where was Sword Dance? Where's the HP/MP drains? Sure, she danced. She wiggle her butt, and she moved her feet. But what part of her abilities was the Dancer part? Same for Mog. Aside from the command being labelled "Dance", what part of his abilities was the Dancer part? What did he actually do that was a signature Dancer ability, and not a Geomancer ability?

There are 2 characteristics of Dancer that to me define dancer.

1. Doing anything of a somewhat magical effect without the use of MP. Operative phrase for me here is without use of MP. The actual effects don't rather matter. It can be damage, buffs, heals. (GEO and BRD both qualify here too)

2. Do stuff in (1) through a dancing action. Dancing must show physically.

Songstress is both Dancer and Bard to me because it fulfills the above 2 criteria, and the BRD criteria for me too
(ie. 1 is the same, 2. do stuff in (1) through singing or a musical instrument).

As for Mog, I can hardly remember it but I'm pretty sure he did dance too.. in his 16 bit kinda way..
If that doesn't justify it, maybe this will
Mog Dances

[Lordwafik]

Obviously dancer needs signature moves! It's not a dancer without signature moves!!! Are you STUPID!?!?!

Like how BLU got White Wind, and how BLM got ultima.. oh wait.

[Spira]

so tell me..
what is Bard's signature move?

what is Warrior's signature move?

the list goes on.

edit: lol i read the rest of it..

the 2 u mentioned are kinda signature moves.. they just havent shown up in XI yet.

[Obev]

I think you just fell into the Sarchasm. That's the point; blue and black mage don't get those 'signature' spells in XI, so there's no reason to assume dancer will get anything that has defined them in previous final fantasies.

[fantasticdan]

Since when was ultima a signature blm spell? IIRC, ultima has never even been specific to blm in a single final fantasy game.

[LD]

1000 Needles, Self Destruct, Bad Breath, and Magic Hammer are in the game. White Wind is in the dats.

I really don't care what this argument is about, I just wanted to make that clear.

[Spira]

Since when was ultima a signature blm spell? IIRC, ultima has never even been specific to blm in a single final fantasy game.

thats kinda because every FF game that has had Ultima useable in it doesnt restrict job classes.
However, it has been classified as Black Magic in at least 1 FF series entry, so there.

I was actually expecting Goblin Rush to be a BLU spell cos in most previous FF entries, BLU often had that spell (Goblin Punch), which was cheap MP cost (sometimes free?) and ok damage.

The BLU spell repertoire has always changed alot anyway.. just because they get it in some games doesn't mean they always do.
The thing that remains the same tho, is that all their spells always come from monsters first.

[fantasticdan]

thats kinda because every FF game that has had Ultima useable in it doesnt restrict job classes.
However, it has been classified as Black Magic in at least 1 FF series entry, so there.

It has also been white magic in FF2. In FFT it was only learnable by the special Squire class, which wasn't even a mage at all.

FF1/3/5/4/9/FFTA: Black mage is a job, no ultima available.
FF2: Castable by white mage.
FF7: Castable by everyone.
FF8: Castable by everyone.
FFX: Black magic.
FFT: Castable only by special squire class.

That hardly seems like a black mage "signature spell" to me.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Flare is closer to BLM's "signature spell", if you ask me.

[LD]

Goblin Rush is currently in the dats, but it's not exactly the same.

and just to clarify...

WAR: Berserk, Defender, Break Arts, Axes (WAR is based on the Generic Fighter arch-type, which actually changes a lot, so it draws from different classes like knight, fighter, and berserker)
THF: Steal, Mug, Flee
MNK: Martial Arts, Boost, Kick, Chakra, Counter
WHM: High Level White Magic
BLM: High Level Black Magic, Higher MP
RDM: Slightly Lower Level White and Black Magic

PLD: Cover and White Magic
DRK: Souleater (The ability has been used on other jobs or games with a looser job system, but it is usually found on, and then associated with, DRK)
RNG: Ranged specialization and Sharpshot (Aim)
BST: Charm (Control), Tame (Calm)
BRD: Buffs
SMN: Summons, Highest MP
NIN: Dual Wield, Utsusemi
DRG: Jump
SAM: Use of many sword skills

I'm only doing a fast & dirty list, but these are all skills and traits carried over from the same or similar jobs in older games which are, usually, the defining characteristic of the job. So there is a point in keeping track of such things, even if it is likely it will not be used in exactly the same way.

Dancer and Bard were always defined by the way they gave their buffs or debuffs because they usually had a random assortment of spells....that were also often used randomly. However, Bards always mostly used Buffs and Dancers mostly used Debuffs.

[Uzor]

Dancer is to Bard, as Black Mage is to White Mage?

edit: Obviously Dancer will be a DD. It dual wielded in the video. So obviously RDM is a DD too. It will also be female onry since only female dancers were shown. And PLD will become a pet job with their own caitsith.

[Asphodel]

Although I don't think X-2 counts towards cannon any more than Tactics does, I'd like to point out that Songstress is an almost direct combination of Dancer and Bard...from Tactics. In FFT, Dancer does AoE debuffs/damage to all enemies, with an emphasis on debuffs, and Bard does AoE buffs to all allies. Looking at the Songstress, she has...debuffs that effect all enemies, labeled as dance, and buffs that effect all allies, labeled songs. Granted, it didn't have Swords Dance, and the buffs/debuffs weren't completely divided along those lines, but it certainly gives it a connection to past FFs; as noted, I think that both this AND FFT are non-cannon, so I don't think the 'not inspired by FFT' rule applies here.

As for Mog, look at the mechanics from FFV's dancer. When you dance, you have a chance of doing 4 random effects, with a higher chance of damaging the enemy than debuffing/buffing. When Mog uses a dance, he changes the background (so his abilities are only LEARNED by fighting in a zone; once he knows them they aren't restricted to certain terrain like Geo traditionally is), and he uses one of 4 random effects until the end of the battle, with a higher chance of damaging the enemy. Same mechanics for effects as the Dancer, he just learns multiple sets of dances from terrain. I think that counts as a combination of Dancer and Geomancer.

So yes, I think the FFXI dancer will be damage-oriented, as it follows the trend from FFV and FFVI. I doubt it will be ALL damage, but since the jobs where it emphasized debuffs were odd side-games, I think its safe to rule those two out.

For those saying it will be a Cor-type debuff/DD job...read the description on the website again.

these thewy terpsichoreans would weave forbidden magics upon themselves and their enemies

So although it could be debuff/DD oriented (if SE breaks from tradition somewhat), it'll won't be pure debuffs.

Actually, from that quote, it sounds like the Dancer casts buffs on itself only, which would be an interesting change and help offset the general low damage of daggers. I think we might be seeing a job that uses absorb-ish mechanics, using a dance that will debuff the opponent while buffing the dancer, using dance to improve its DD rather than doing damage through dances directly. For instance, Sword Dance could do Attack Down on the mob, and Attack Up on the dancer. Of course, a more powerful varient would be to simply make the effects related; Defense down on the mob and Attack Up on the dancer, or Accuracy down on the mob and Accuracy Up on the dancer. The latter could almost be a good basis for a tank job, if you could have several dances up at once, although I don't think this job will be designed to tank.

Meh, we won't know until people get to play with it at the Fan Festival. /end baseless speculation.

[Seigfried Of Pandy]

Couldn't Corsairs get Job Ability aggro using Phantom Roll? Or was this tested and disproven? >_>

cor JA's do get ja aggro

[Bregor]

Obviously dancer needs signature moves! It's not a dancer without signature moves!!! Are you STUPID!?!?!

Like how BLU got White Wind, and how BLM got ultima.. oh wait.

Every time that stupid ISNM puk uses White Wind, I get bitter. I would level BLU for that damn spell, but no...

[Spira]

lol.. I'd prefer to consider the BLMs signature spell as Flare.. because it came from the BLM in FF1. Then again, alot of 'signature spells' don't carry over all the time..
Ultima is more of a signature series tradition spell than it is a job-specific one..

to me.. the job-defining moves/traits, generally speaking:

WAR: wield lotsa weapons
MNK: punch punch, Chakra
WHM: Cure, Life/Raise, Protect, Shell, Holy, Dia*
BLM: Flare, Drain, Aspir.
RDM: cast both white and black magic
THF: steal, mug, flee
PLD: cover
DRK: souleater/darkness.
BST: charm enemies, control enemies.
BRD: sing songs, uses no MP
RNG: shoot arrows well. barrage, probably.
SAM: wield great katana
NIN: dual wield, ninjutsu
DRG: jump
SMN: summon magical beings
BLU: use abilities originally from monsters
COR: use abilities that heavily factor in risk / randomness
PUP: attack through a doll / puppet / something which is clearly not a living being.
DNC: dance, use no MP

[Kachi]

True, but i dont know where eles it would fit in except for a support role.

I've been working on a Mime concept, and I have it as a jack of all trades job (a true one, rather than a failed one like RDM)

[Metah]

ITT how to fail at Final Fantasy

[Epidemic]

It's another excuse for all of the men playing girl characters to flirt more realistically over the internet.

Aww, did someone's widdle heart get bwoken by a cute manthwa? Poooor baaaaaaby.
Now shut up. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.

You know what allows men playing female characters to flirt more realistically over the internet?
Stupid, desperate men who need to get out more.

Thanks for bolding the man in manthra. I finally get that joke now, good one. Can't stop laughing. And what's so dumb about it? You know as well as I do that there's guys out there who run around and flirt with emotes. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. And I agree 100% with your last statement. It's pretty pathetic really.

[Khamsin]

By signature moves and abilities, I don't specifically mean a certain move that has to be there. I mean the basic qualities of how the job works.

In every incarnation of a particular job throughout the FF series, every job has changed slightly in its spell repertoire, abilities, etc. yet they still keep their defining qualities such that you know they're that job without even seeing their job name. For example, if we saw a Geomancer preview for the next job in FFXI, but they didn't tell us the name, we'd still know it was Geomancer just from seeing it in action. Despite whether or not they have the same exact spell names they used in past FFs.

That's what I mean by signature moves and abilities. Not that BLU doesn't have White Wind, but that we know a BLU by heart when we see one in action. We know a WHM or BLM when we see one. We know a Geomancer when we see one.

Songstress did nothing similar to what Dancer had ever done before. It did everything similar to what Bard had done before, however. The only thing Songstress ever did to make anyone think it was a Dancer hybrid was dance, and believe it or not, a dancing animation isn't the defining quality of Dancer. If you put a Geomancer in white robes with red triangles and give him a WHM casting animation, that still wouldn't make it a WHM when you see it using Geomancer abilities. Like I said, I can point out similarities between Songstress and Bard without resorting to "but she sings!". Can you do the same without resorting to "but she dances!"? Besides, in FFX-2, pretty much every job danced at some point during its animation. It's FFX-2. lol

[Sera]

It's another excuse for all of the men playing girl characters to flirt more realistically over the internet.

Aww, did someone's widdle heart get bwoken by a cute manthwa? Poooor baaaaaaby.
Now shut up. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.

You know what allows men playing female characters to flirt more realistically over the internet?
Stupid, desperate men who need to get out more.

Thanks for bolding the man in manthra. I finally get that joke now, good one. Can't stop laughing. And what's so dumb about it? You know as well as I do that there's guys out there who run around and flirt with emotes. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. And I agree 100% with your last statement. It's pretty pathetic really.

Ofc there are guys that do that. But blaming a JOB for that is retarded. I know a guy who did this on sam.
Next you'll be saying they should take out wedding gear because it causes this. lol