What would happen if SE adjusted the Level Correction for EP

[Zalius]

I don't see the point in paying to play online with other people and choose to play solo.

yeah, wow is really lonely leveling, but it doesnt have to be because of how well duo-trioing works during questing and grinding, and you almost always have the option of picking one or the other.

the point isnt playing alone, its that the game becomes unplayable and dependent on people that you often dont know. i dont like getting shoved into a party where i dont know half the people just so that i can get 30% of my level because one of the members is a. constantly afk b. shitty c. a combination of both. sure, you can wait for people you know, but then job combinations become very important. You should always have the option of solo content, always

[Bakthi]

You're also never really playing "alone", because you're in the economy and world along with everyone else. Oh, there were times when I was leveling BST that I really wanted to instance Garliage Citadel ^^ Going there after the peace and quiet isolation of the Oibliette sucked hardcore.

The point about learning how each job functions in a party has some validity, but if someone is really gonna take PLD or RDM 1-75 as /BST (and it has been done), I'm not sure they were going to party it anyway. If they're just soloing to fill in some gaps, then they're probably partying more than enough to learn (unless they are dense, and wouldn't have learned by 75 anyway). If they're soloing it to use for raids, half the time that's a different style of play. I could see it being an issue sometimes, but not often.

But yeah, I don't know. I like to fish, and I like to solo jobs at low levels. Those are both just things I can do with the game that happen to (hopefully) not immediately involve other people; nobody was using those mobs in Buburimu anyway. I don't take my linkshell off while I'm doing it, and I sell the drops on the AH after I'm done. Some people like to go to Valkurm at 10 and hate solo; that's fine for them.

[Luto]

And you do have the option. Besieged, exp scrolls, solo ENM, actually going out and soloing. And hay guyz, there are things to do in the game besides exp. Crafting, exploring, many quests, etc. A party is a staple of the FF series. You can complain about how laughable the solo exp is compared to a party but it's probably not going to change.

[Kachi]

Frankly, to me a good party isn't always a fun one anyway. The real problem with xp parties imo is that I can't just grab a group of friends to go out and kill with and still expect to be relatively effective.

But as for soloing, any job can solo 3k an hour with /bst sub (and some significantly more). Of course, have to level BST to 75 first...

[LD]

And you do have the option. Besieged, exp scrolls, solo ENM, actually going out and soloing. And hay guyz, there are things to do in the game besides exp. Crafting, exploring, many quests, etc. A party is a staple of the FF series. You can complain about how laughable the solo exp is compared to a party but it's probably not going to change.

That's the problem.
Crafting and questing isn't exping, solo isn't anywhere near as effecient as PTs, Beseiged and such are highly conditional and restrictive. The idea is to allow free solo play wherever you can, whenever you want for a reasonable value. To make real progress without having to rely on something or someone else. Simply getting exp on your own is not the same as MAKING it and having it actually mean something more than a drop in the bucket.

It's about the option, not playing alone.
Sometimes, you just want to be by yourself, but you still want to engage in the world and possibly be called on by your friends or even have them join you. That's how MMOs usually work.

[Luto]

And you do have the option. Besieged, exp scrolls, solo ENM, actually going out and soloing. And hay guyz, there are things to do in the game besides exp. Crafting, exploring, many quests, etc. A party is a staple of the FF series. You can complain about how laughable the solo exp is compared to a party but it's probably not going to change.

That's the problem.
Crafting and questing isn't exping, solo isn't anywhere near as effecient as PTs, Beseiged and such are highly conditional and restrictive. The idea is to allow free solo play wherever you can, whenever you want for a reasonable value. To make real progress without having to rely on something or someone else. Simply getting exp on your own is not the same as MAKING it and having it actually mean something more than a drop in the bucket.

It's about the option, not playing alone.
Sometimes, you just want to be by yourself, but you still want to engage in the world and possibly be called on by your friends or even have them join you. That's how MMOs usually work.

You can go solo whenever you want. >_> If you want more efficient exp, join a party. If you want efficient solo exp play an offline RPG.

[FinalJustice]

You can go solo whenever you want. >_> If you want more efficient exp, join a party. If you want efficient solo exp play an offline RPG.

That's pretty ridiculous logic. Thats = to saying "if you don't like it play something else". And is not a good defense at ALL. SE has made more attempts at solo content or small party content in the last year then they have ever done. They even made small group exp in Conquest zones decently viable to an extent. Clearly they are open to change. Telling someone to go simply play an offline rpg is silly. Excuuuuuse them for wanting more option in a game they like.

Edit: And of course we all know about Besieged and crafting, is there. But for the purpose of THIS particular conversation we are talking about EXPing. Time is Time no matter what you are doing.

[arus2001]

For me, it's not so much paying to play online just to play alone, as technically virtually any player could have a ripple effect on my own experience (Crafting, camping on/with me, passing through and tossing cures/buffs, etc.), but rather me hoping to eke every inkling of entertainment out of my dime that I can get. I don't really expect quests to start giving EXP, per se, but the often paltry rewards and generally crappy stories aren't much encouragement to do them, either.

I've already got a capped craft character and a couple mules I futz around on, too. I've done most of the quests, camped most of the NMs worth camping, leveled a majority of my jobs to 37+ along with my 5 75s, far enough in Assault ranks to have gotten what I wanted, and farmed enough coffer keys or soloed limits for people that progression's just kind of flat-lined. Sure, I could slave away at Salvage or partake in the botting snorefest that is kings, but both are kind of shining examples of the wrong things to do in an MMO (insanely rare drops for no reason other than to keep people trying and stupid long repop timers that kind of perpetuate the same). Sure, it's in their best interest to try and keep us hooked, but I'd rather that process come through variety and the ability to play more freely rather than the same old treadmills.

Meanwhile, on the solo end, while it may breed some stupid players, it can also do the opposite and create highly versed and intelligent individuals that can come to understand mob behavior patterns, grasp a full understanding of their range of TP moves, and otherwise know how to cover their own asses when shit hits the fan (and I'm not just talking about bee-lining to the zone) if it's even possible.

I know at this point people love to chime in with zing phrases like "go play WoW" if accounting the above, but I do believe challenge and the community aspect can be maintained even with some adjustments. Joe Blow'll need to learn eventually. Otherwise he'll constantly find himself kicked from any shell of worthwhile repute, or eventually end up in the conglomerated dredge of server sewage that such individuals find themselves in already. Much as I'll poke and addle SE, knowing both them and Blizzard, I'd rather give my money to SE. They're far from perfect, but I don't think it's a point of no return.

[Ravenlokk]

In response to enhancing solo play, not so much level correction what if...

They had an anniversary-style ring that only works when youre playing solo. That is rechargable, or has a self-regerating timer of 20-24hr or something like that. It would allow players with limited playtime to get some decent xp in the time they can play, without breaking PT xp, etc.

3k an hour sucks, but netting 6k in an hour before going out for <stuff> aint so bad. Look at all the blms camping puddings, thats usually between 6-8k/hr. Id imagine a lot of jobs can get 3-4k/hr solo fighting the right stuff.

[orson]

I think the majority of people want options in this game. We struggle long and hard to get SE to be less restrictive and give us more options. Overall that's the key to FFXI's survival.

If anyone has played a solo job then you know the incredible frustration involved at times. SE has made this game very anti-solo making huge exp loss for not having a raise they have changed it a bit lowering the amount lost and making RR items but overall they punish you harshly for being out in the field by yourself without a raise. Since MPK has been eliminated there should be no need to lose exp. All exp loss is now, is a time sink it offers a bit of encouragement to avoid death but having to HP or loss claim on the NM if you die is just as much a reason to not want to die. Having an idiot party member cost you 2400 exp because they wipe you and no one has RR is a hardcore slap in the face.

Unless they can balance parties (which they can't) and get everyone invites (again this won't happen) then we should have other options to lvl jobs. Even if they were able to do the impossible you still have to face the dwindling population generally there are less and less mid lvl characters to party with. Getting a party is not necessarily a 100% thing. That's stupid, many jobs have almost 0 ability to earn exp whenever they want. Solo should nvr net you more exp then doing a full blown party but there should be options to earn about +3-4k/hr solo (without risk of death or exp loss) through quests that any job can easily do and get the same amount of exp.

Ya sure there's other options like farming and crafting but sometimes you just want to lvl and tbh it's frustrating to sit on your ass because A. you don't have a party desirable job or B. you're having to wait on a Brd, Whm, Tank, DD, Etc. to actually get some decent exp. On top of that parties sometimes are just frustrating I can't think of anyone who hasn't gotten those shitty parties lost more exp then you earned and thought "I wish I could just get that last 3-4k so I have aggressor without having to wait 1-2 hrs for a party."

[LD]

Luto obviously believes solo should be inferior to PT play, and it should, but I'm saying the gap is wider than most other games and that has to come to an end. Solo play is meaningless to the point where those jobs who can't do it well do it either for an item or just to show they can. It is very rarely for the purpose of making exp.

Meaningful solo play cannot replace PT play, but the current yeild is not enough to make it worth the time and money. The average 75 melee soloing lesser colibri makes, with sanction bonus and emp ring, 69 exp a kill and will take 2-5 minutes to down one. That's 828-2070/h. That is really nothing, you can make more in Beseiged. If you have to utsu, you're spending much more money for your exp. If you bloodtank it without a reliable form of healing (or higher evasion), you have down time. Think of it this way; the ineffiiciency of solo is so great, most people would rather idle somewhere than waste the time & money on these low gains.



The idea is to give EVERYONE the option. Otherwise, it's not really an option, is it? Making another 'patch', like adding another exp ring, isn't fixing the problem.

Orson pretty much has it, the reason this is needed is because it is impossible for everyone who needs exp to get an effective PT. If not because of job balance, then simply player population. I'll use 'The 600,001 Senario.' There are One Hundred-thousand functioning, active PTs....and ONE guy is left out. He has done all the quests, he is unwilling or unable to craft anymore, he fed his chocobo, he trained his pit monster, he has been everywhere and seen everything, but he still needs buffer + merits. Should he have to get less out of this game just because he wasn't lucky enough to get a PT? How is that balanced? How is that fair? He's paying just like everyone else, he should be able to gain something on his own.

[ceolceol]

Looking at this from the sort of tight-knit schedule I've recently been thrown into, I'd really appreciate some sort of ability to solo exp that didn't mean wasting a load of time.

From 60-64 I solo'd on DRG and I had only one party, which was at 64 in the Subterrane (sp?). The amount of exp I got from that stretch was pretty nice. My friend, who was leveling WAR at the time, would duo with me every once in a while and we would net about 6k/hr and enjoy doing it. We could AFK whenever we wanted, run around and fight random mobs and die and not get pissed about it. It was fun.

It seemed as soon as I hit 65, the exp went to hell and there wasn't a good place to duo. Every other camp was either out of range of the Sanction Refresh I needed to net that heal-spam ability (Kuftal) or was almost always full because it was a main spot for leveling. I mean, we would get passively aggressive towards the beastmen seal farmers on the outskirts of Al Zahbi... and we would rejoice when we could grab one before that damn NIN could get Provoke off

I guess my point is that I had more fun in that duo setup than I did in all of my exp parties combined. It was set up fairly fast since we were on at the same times, it was fun because we really were just hanging out first and exping second, and it didn't feel like a time-waster as we were netting just-par exp/hr. The only thing we had to worry about was whether or not two or three 75s would show up and solo the same mob by the time my friend and I had cleared the remainder of the zone.

I think, if SE could make a way that soloing didn't break the balance of the game but was practical, they would make the grind to 75 a lot more entertaining. It is a game, right? Sometimes it feels more like a job.

[LD]

Another good example, solo-trio play could actually create LESS of an enphasis on exp and make it a more easy-going environment.

...but I'm not really trying to sell solo play here (well, not entirely.)
I really want to know what effect it would have on the damage formula and how much it would actually affect the game.

[Aquilla]

I really think that solo is fine right now, and I agree with some of the previous posters that making it easier would just create more problems, rather than solve them.

There is not a lack of xp camps in the game... there's just one popular spot, and most pick up parties crowd to it. I have been invited to parties where the leader goes "OK, lets head to the mire" automatically, without checking for camp availability. Things would not get better if solo.

People would crowd to popular spots still, there would just be a great many n00bs to bother one while playing.

I love bst. It's my favorite job to xp, and I've never taken it to a party. I also try to avoid ToAU areas, because I don't feel like dealing with overcrowding. There's just no way to really encourage people to 'explore', if they aren't gonna do it as a party, they certainly aren't gonna do it solo.

Anyway, I made lv 27-32 in the same party in Oldton movalpolos... it was fun, and it's certainly not impossible to pull there, but does require *some* pulling skillz. I had a blast xping bst on purgonorgo isle, and my lv 56ish party in Ulegooogooo range was making (according to a windower-endowed friend) 7k/hr.
I've had kickass parties in bibiki bay, simply because zone to oneself > overcrowded mire.
Good luck getting that pick up pt with xxSefirotxx to go there.

[loial]

I agree that there are zones that people simply don't touch. Think Meriphataud, Battalia, Jugner and Sauromugue (minus weapons). These zones are mostly barren of exp PTs. I'm not really sure what SE could do about it though.

When I played EQ2, they flagged certain mobs as "solo" and certain as "small group, full group or raid." Solo mobs yielded shit exp for a group, but mediocre exp for a solo player. If you only had an hour to log on, you could go harvesting for crafting materials and kill some solo mobs along the way and make a dent in your exp. But, that sounds much more like "catering to the solo player" which is what other games are about. I think WoW has something similar (not sure myself, never played it).

Regardless, I doubt SE will do anything about it.

[spooky]

If you want to solo while LFP, level BST.
The end.

[Ryuho]

There's just no way to really encourage people to 'explore', if they aren't gonna do it as a party, they certainly aren't gonna do it solo.

They could actually make the quest system worth a shit, and have them involving more areas of the world. /gasp

Fact of the matter is, there are many unique qualities that FFXI brings to the table, but at the same time it falls short in many, many aspects of fun gameplay. Seriously, i don't even know why people are trying to argue like there's soloability in this game (besides pet jobs). Yea, technically, you CAN do it. But i can also technically paint a house with a toothbrush, that doesn't make it a worthwhile option.

[NynJa]

HOW DO I SHOT WEB ??
HOW DO I FITE SORO ??!?
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/9...3121440ej7.png


Suck it up, get a fucking secondary account. Its almost 2008, everyone should be able to 2box these days. Saying you cant 2box is like SE saying "welllllll we cant do this because of ps2 limitations".

[superfob]

Not everyone is willing to pay for two accounts just to self PL.

I never ask others for account info, because I'm not willing to put my account at risk by giving my info out.

Beastmen pets are awesome, but freakin solo blms hog alot of them (kept running into them while trying to level my bst).

I'm surprised people that have played FFXI long enough to get to 75 have not realized that FFXI is a hardcore gamers MMORPG. The gameplay is not built for casual 30min-hour players. I think SE covered this in one of their interviews before, but they want you to party (including bst).

[Talisien]

There's ton of stuff to do solo. There's nigh infinite quests to do in this game by yourself. There is coffer hunting to do, there is NM camping to do, there are missions to do (many of which don't require groups, especially in taou). There is your Adventuring Fellow to level (which is most often done solo), there is a job change button which can switch you to a low level toon and you can solo 1-10 for seals, crystals, bee chips, etc. There is regular monster farming to do for gil, there are even jobs that can xp at a pace comparable to a party, though they suffer from drawbacks in a pt to account for their solo strengths. There is crafting to do, chocobo racing, and breeding to do, there is pankration to do and even skilling up to do. The only thing that isn't typically done solo is gaining experience points.

I wish I could succinctly describe to you the lack of joy involved in a game that allows solo play to be equal to group play for experience points. It may be difficult to understand for FFXI players, but people in WoW don't group unless forced by quests or assault-style dungeon runs, and even those groups are fueled purely by necessity and end as quickly as the objective is completed. Speaking of speed and efficacy, if solo play is allowed, grouping is overpowered almost by default. Think about that for a minute, because it's as deep as a puddle on a hot day. If monsters are balanced for Thieves to beat solo, for BLMs to nuke down with less fear of death, for Warrior/Monks to counter attack to death, then our typical groups of Refresh, Haste, Debuffs, sleeps, Attack bonuses and /nin DD will rip through those things even faster than they already do. Without an almost instantaneous respawn time, whole areas of the world will be devoid of monsters as a few melee sit around running a lazy circle around an area that respawns as soon as they reach the end of their circuit, only to restart it all over again. Because solo play exists, parties journey to the depths of dungeons only to find one player monopolizing their camp spot just like Beastmasters can do to parties now, except writ large.

FFXI is one of the last bastions of forced grouping. In the future, it's possible that only foreign games will provide a gaming experience where people are taught to rely on others (and be relied on) all the way up the level curve. People on this board, elitist as it may be, scoff at people who don't understand the subtle intricacies of gear swaps and gear choices, but in WoW you couldn't expect a PRIEST to understand how to heal in a RAID scenario, just because he had never been asked to heal in his 60 level career. That's tantamount to a whm going Whinja from 1-75 (I know it's impossible, but just go with it) and then at 75 being invited to heal for the tank in a Bahamut v2 fight. He has no enhancing magic skill, he has no healing gear, he has 0 hmp gear, but god damn he has some nice clubs.

WoW is a great game, and solo play for XP has its place -- in single player games. I've seen comments in this thread that ask for mobs to be available for YOU, when YOU want. That is the very essence of a single player game, not a Massively Multiplayer Online (ahem...roleplayingcough) Game.

-tali