Dancer sub prediction time!

[Khamsin]

Uh, but from what SE actually said it sounds like they are going to be debuffers?

SE said they'd weave forbidden magics on their enemies and themselves, like BLMs do. I don't see where they said they'd be debuffers.

[Senji]

Tactics doesn't matter because SE has never used Tactics ideas in any of their FF main series games until FF12, where it just used the name "Ivalice" and that's it. I doubt they'll start now.

Well lets just go down the job list shall we?

Squire: elements of War + Pld
Knight: elements of War + Pld
Samurai: Sam
Mediator: not in FFXI at this time
Priest: Whm
Time Mage: not in FFXI at this time
Calculator: not in FFXI at this time
Geomancer: not in FFXI at this time
Lancer: Drg
Thief: Thf
Monk: Mnk
Dancer: Announced
Chemist: Alchemist crafting job
Ninja: Nin
Oracle: not in FFXI at this time
Wizard: Blm
Summoner: Smn
Archer: Rng
Bard: Brd

"With their aggressive notes, these spoony poets would weave forbidden magicks upon themselves and their enemies, producing results rivaling those of even the most powerful sorcerer cants."

Does this sound closest to a:
Brd
Sam
Blm


I really don't know if your getting whooshed or your just being subborn with sticking to your guns

[Khamsin]

Tactics doesn't matter because SE has never used Tactics ideas in any of their FF main series games until FF12, where it just used the name "Ivalice" and that's it. I doubt they'll start now.

Well lets just go down the job list shall we?

Squire: elements of War + Pld
Knight: elements of War + Pld
Samurai: Sam
Mediator: not in FFXI at this time
Priest: Whm
Time Mage: not in FFXI at this time
Calculator: not in FFXI at this time
Geomancer: not in FFXI at this time
Lancer: Drg
Thief: Thf
Monk: Mnk
Dancer: Announced
Chemist: Alchemist crafting job
Ninja: Nin
Oracle: not in FFXI at this time
Wizard: Blm
Summoner: Smn
Archer: Rng
Bard: Brd


[quote:d80e1]
"With their aggressive notes, these spoony poets would weave forbidden magicks upon themselves and their enemies, producing results rivaling those of even the most powerful sorcerer cants."

Does this sound closest to a:
Brd
Sam
Blm


I really don't know if your getting whooshed or your just being subborn with sticking to your guns [/quote:d80e1]

Well, for one, WAR and PLD have nothing to do with Squire, WHM has nothing to do with Priest, and so on down the list. Those are jobs that are already defined within the main FF series. They didn't borrow anything at all from Tactics.

As for BRD and its aggressive notes, BRD has a history of being a buffer in the FF series. And I doubt SE would describe BRD as having aggressive notes or weaving forbidden magics on their enemies to rival the most powerful sorcerer cants.

[LinktheDeme]

If your trusting IGN with anything FFXI related your seriously mistaken. They had that one xbox 360 review when even alla posters ridiculued how ridiculous it was.

Examples
They said Mithras were an Elvish race
Stated that ShadowBIND paralyzed an enemy
Red mages could cast both white and black magic but at an expense they cast slower.
They said more retarded stuff those are the only things i remember.

Oh and saying WHM has nothing to do with priest, If you let FFtactics just sit there long enough at main screen instead of priest and wizard it will say Black Mage and White mage just as an FYI

[Avé]

It's either DNC/DRG or nothing at all. GTFO my parties with anything less than that. GDI, you pansies, go level a real job.

[Senji]

As for the sub, it will be /whm at first until we figure out how to buff it. Standard stuff at this point, exactly like Cor to /rng and Pup to /mnk, except i'm not sure what trait(s) would benefit it besides attack bonuses.

Cor can DD, but its a support class. I think Dancer will be a bit heavier DD than Cor, but while still debuffing the mob at the same time.

[Calais~]

/nin because every job winds up subbing nin

[Judai]

idk why ppl keep saying leave tactics out of this when tactics was one of the most job defined FFs. Preist is definately like WHM so idk if you are just bullshitting or not but yea, you are full of shit if not being sarcastic. Preist had Cure1-4, Raise1-2, Regen, Pro/Shell, etc. So unless you are being sarcastic you are just being foolish. So far, FFXI jobs have been pretty accurate with Tactics' jobs.

I would say support but more on the debuffing/dd side of support then BRD is. The one real true version of Dancer was in Tactics, so it's the thing people fall back on when describing it. Dancer in tactics sounds EXACTLY like they described it will be in FFXI to me. It was a decent melee class with Dances to debuff and befuddle their enemies.

No clue on sub, maybe /war, prolly /nin if it is a solid front line DD. Then again, there are still CORs who ditch their DD possibilties and sub /whm.

Just because Tactics followed it's own course and didn't fit in exactly with everything doesn't mean it should be thrown out. Especially when there are a ton of things in FFXI that were used in Tactics. Going by your logic though, I guess Monk, Thief, Wizard, Summoner and the other Tactics jobs are nothing like their FFXI counterparts, right?

[BRP]

Uh yeah, if Dancer isn't random and isn't Geomancer-like... then you will have to admit it's based on Tactics(which itself was a less random Dancer).

[evilpaul]

I'm hoping for a magic DoT job. I'm not entirely sure how that would work though.

[Khamsin]

idk why ppl keep saying leave tactics out of this when tactics was one of the most job defined FFs. Preist is definately like WHM so idk if you are just bullshitting or not but yea, you are full of shit if not being sarcastic. Preist had Cure1-4, Raise1-2, Regen, Pro/Shell, etc. So unless you are being sarcastic you are just being foolish. So far, FFXI jobs have been pretty accurate with Tactics' jobs.

Uh yeah, if Dancer isn't random and isn't Geomancer-like... then you will have to admit it's based on Tactics(which itself was a less random Dancer).

Oh and saying WHM has nothing to do with priest, If you let FFtactics just sit there long enough at main screen instead of priest and wizard it will say Black Mage and White mage just as an FYI

I think you're all missing the point about Tactics. I'm saying Tactics got Priest (WHM) and such from the main FF series. Tactics has borrowed a lot from the main FF series, but never the other way around.

When Tactics was made, WHM was already a part of the FF series. Priest in Tactics did not invent the job for the FF world. Neither did Dancer.

As for Tactics being the most job defining game in FF, and FFXI being consistent with it... you're making the same mistake. FF5 was the most job defining game in FF, with FF3 being a close predecessor. FF3 first introduced changable jobs, but without much definition. FF5 introduced many jobs, and further defined others through the use of job traits and abilities. You could level multiple jobs and combine aspects of jobs you've levelled, sort of like subjobs. In fact, the FFXI jobs are similar to the FF5 definition of the job. e.g. RNG in FF5 had X-Fight (4x hit attack) and Aim, and in FFXI they have Barrage and Sharpshot. RDM in FF5 had X-Magic (cast 2x spells in one turn) and in FFXI they have Fast Cast and Chainspell. NIN in FF5 had blink, SAM had special evasive/parry abilities, Mystic Knight had enspells but that was wrapped into RDM, THF had flee steal and mug, and so forth. The biggest changes to the jobs in FFXI compared to FF5 was the mechanics of SMN, BRD, and BST, so they'd work in an MMO setting. And the addition of PUP.

However, there is not a single thing in all of the FF series that you could say was borrowed from Tactics (i.e. something that Tactics itself didn't borrow from the earlier FF series). The name "Ivalice" in FF12 is the first thing ever, and even that was just in name only.

In short, Dancer was defined by FF5, Tactics later borrowed from it and changed the job like it did many others. However, I've never seen the Tactics version of anything in a main-series FF game, let alone FFXI. So far, all the jobs in FFXI that existed in both the main FF series and in Tactics are closer to the main-series FF version (e.g. FF5) than the Tactics version. Although there will be similarities to both, because they all originated from the same thing: early FF games. The only ones that didn't, like Calculator and such, we've never seen outside of Tactics.

[theo]

Eh, I voted WHM but I don't honestly agree with either option (ridiculed or solo job, neither sounds right to me). Probably should have just put a bunch of potential sub jobs up in the poll choices and left out the commentary.

[alph]

Voted /whm because I'll cry if it's another DD job. Seriously, like we don't have enough DD jobs to pick from already, why add more?

[Judai]

I believe you are missing the fact that Tactics took what was in several FFs and combined many of them to create a more defined sense of the jobs we know. Yes, in several games the jobs had already began but that doesn't mean you just toss out Tactics versions of them like they meant nothing to the evolution of the jobs.

Just because one game did it first doesn't mean that's the sole recipe for jobs. You throw out Tactics because it wasn't the first to introduce jobs, yet games are always evolving and usually borrowing from previous games. Every FF borrows things from past games. FFV borrowed jobs from FF3, yet you still think FFV was the one that defined jobs. Why would the jobs cease to evolve suddenly at FFV? Why would you not at least consider the possibility that Tactics has some part in the course of jobs.

FF stopped using the job system after Tactics until FFX-2 and XI, in which both have borrowed example of the jobs we have from all previous FFs. Stuff has been taken from FF3, FFV, Tactics and Avatars and abilities have been taken from other FFs. It is part of the evolution of the FF series.

No matter what you think, Dancer was still a job in it's basic stages in FFV that was a melee class which used dances to debuff the enemy with one of four Dances.

• Tempting Tango - Confuses every enemy. Always works. [/*:m:14b1d]
• Jitterbug Duet - Drains HP from the enemy. [/*:m:14b1d]
• Mystery Waltz - Drains MP from the enemy. [/*:m:14b1d]
• Sword Dance - Attack for four times the damage.[/*:m:14b1d]

Tactics took the same job and evolved it a bit more and added Dances but the job basically stayed the same.

• Witch Hunt - Dance causes MP damage with a mysterious costume.[/*:m:14b1d]
• Wiznaibus - Dance causes HP damage with powerful dance steps.[/*:m:14b1d]
• Slow Dance - Dance lowers enemies' Speed level by confusing them with slow dance movements. [/*:m:14b1d]
• Polka Polka - Dance with vivacious moves. Lowers physical attack power. [/*:m:14b1d]
• Disillusion - Dance lowers enemies' magic attack power by distracting them with a mysterious costume. [/*:m:14b1d]
• Nameless Dance - Dance with unexplainable moves. Causes various abnormal status.[/*:m:14b1d]
• Last Dance - Ultimate dance. Turns enemies' CT count to 0[/*:m:14b1d]

The Dancer from Tactics is merely an evolved form of the Dancer in FFV, it has 2 of the same exact Dances and several others were added. Every sequel borrows what worked in past games. Usually, they also evolve them and add new things.

With their aggressive notes, these spoony poets would weave forbidden magicks upon themselves and their enemies, producing results rivaling those of even the most powerful sorcerer cants.

If you are trying to say the above sounds nothing like the melee/debuffing Dancer in previous FFs, then I don't know what you are thinking personally. There is nothing saying Dancer will not be a form of support job and nothing confirming it is either. Personally, from looking at the evolution of the job I think they will play a support role solely in a debuffing way. I doubt they will have many or any party support dances and will more then likely have Dances that inflict status effects on the enemies and possibly buff themselves as well.

[evilpaul]

People argue over what stuff SE says in release notes after it's already in-game. Other than being able to equip daggers, they haven't really given us a clear picture of what Dancer will be capable of.

[Judai]

That's why this is called speculation. It would involve a discussion about the different view points we have about how we percieve the job to be and our speculations of how it will turn out. There is a difference between an arguement and a discussion with varying view points.

[Lordwafik]

All the JPs in HNMLS's will sub /whm everywhere (not just @ NMs), and then not reply to you when you tell them to sub something worth a shit, like they did with cor , blu, pup, and then the NAs will lead the way once again with subjobs that are effective.

I predict the best SJ will be something melee, I don't think /nin because I have a hunch that WotG will be the anti-utsu expansion, all mobs will AOE or ignore shadows, and not hit rediculously hard.

[BRP]

If they are like meleeing BRDs with a bit more focus on enfeebling, then /WHM in all situations where they can't melee(like HNM) and basic melees subs(WAR, NIN) in exp, with /WHM not out of the question. I wouldn't be surprised if their melee capability isn't fantastic, like a THF with a little less skill and no SA or TA(uh, like PUP, but with a Bish weapon).

EDIT: PUP is pretty much built like a Dancer thinking about it. Evasion traits, daggers, hand to hand. Just like Corsair is built like a "Fencer"(more so than RDM). Oh SE, and your wasted potential.

[evilpaul]

They better add more points to Combat/Magic skill merits again soon.

[Lordwafik]

They better add more points to Combat/Magic skill merits again soon.

What for? Everyone is basically overloaded for all situations at this point.