Question for the law buffs (regarding fraud)

[Michaera]

Ok, so let's say you have the following situation:

Over the past 2-3 years, you/someone you know/whatever has been giving someone else money--lots of money--to "protect the family from illness." The person was completely conned into forking over large sums of money to no obvious avail (for crazy voodoo shit), possibly with the promise of specifically protecting the family from some "curse," if that detail's significant or not, I dunno.

So my question to BG is does you/someone you know/whatever have any chance in court to get your money back, get the con artist jailed, sue, etc? Or is that person screwed because it's "spiritual" and thus hard to prove that they did not receive their curse-protection? I'd like to get some input before I suggest they should consult a lawyer, and I know we've got law buffs on here (Eles I'm looking at you!). Any feedback appreciated, especially so if you can cite something for me. The state in question is New York I believe.

[Plow]

I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure they're gonna laugh at you (them... whoever).


It sounds like calling a psychic hot line and suing because they were wrong.


Not to mention they've got the chewbacca defense pwned with the "DO YOU SEE ANY CURSE?!" defense.

[aurik]

It can be constituted as fraud, really depends on the facts though. Regardless of the legality, you won't see a penny of the money back when they skip town, so it's probably best to learn the lesson and move on.

[Michaera]

I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure they're gonna laugh at you (them... whoever).


It sounds like calling a psychic hot line and suing because they were wrong.


Not to mention they've got the chewbacca defense pwned with the "DO YOU SEE ANY CURSE?!" defense.

I've been leaning towards thinking about it like the Wiki thing, where they're taking the money but not providing anything. I guess with a psychic you're paying for the reading, whatever it is, wrong or not, whereas here they're paying for a fraudulent cause? That's how I've been looking at it. Good point though. :/

[Tyche]

Depends if the guy has any type of medical license. If so, then absolutely, but not for fraud. If the Voodoo guy doesn't have a medical license >>edit in: and the party was aware of this lack of license<<, then no, they're pretty much up shit creek without a paddle.

[Elesirdur]

Was there any kind of contract involved in this exchange of money for services? If so, the one of the parties may be in breech of contract and you can proceed legally from there. (Robot Devil: You should have read the wording in the fine....priiiint.)

Did this activity involve Medicaid in any way? If so, the New York State Department of Health has information on fradulent use of the medicaid program here: http://www.health.state.ny.us/health_ca ... aid/fraud/

Here's a link with various resources for reporting fraud in the state of New York:
http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortga ... w_York.asp

In particular, here's a form to the New York State Consumer Protection Board where you can enter a complaint:
https://www1.consumer.state.ny.us/cpb/C ... tForm.html
Here's their main website: http://www.consumer.state.ny.us/

Now, from my very rudimentary understanding of U.S. law, because this is a financial/trade issue, and if the fraudulent party in question is doing business in another state, then this is a Federal felony offense and you should contact the F.B.I.

Check out this FBI site on various scams: http://www.fbi.gov/majcases/fraud/fraudschemes.htm At the bottom of the page you can find links to various resources on fighting back against scams.

However, the bottom line is that unless you want to spend the money to hire a lawyer yourself to fight this then I wouldn't hold out too much hope of getting your money back. That's not to say that you shouldn't make the best use of all the resources available to you, including making the appropriate contacts to your local PD's white collar crime unit, and the F.B.I. Even if they don't solve your case, the information you provide may allow them to build a case against the scammer and nail them in the future, of which you may be able to receive monies from.

Sucks to hear that your family's gotten roped into this kind of thing, but I hope these links will put you on the path to getting some restitution.

PS: To be totally frank, if there's any kind of religious aspect to this (ie. you pay $50 a month to Lady Dashuba in exchange for her protective powers to keep the Dark Lord Thrakerzog out of your hair until your cheques start to bounce) I wouldn't hold out too much hope. Buyer beware, and merchants associations don't look too kindly on suckers that have buyer's remorse and want their money back because they realized they were stupid in the first place.

[Elesirdur]

Found some more stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Frauds
Check to see if the "agreement" between the two parties falls into any of those categories requiring a written contract.

Whether there's a signed document or no, stating to provide a client a service for an agreed upon fee with agreed deliverables and time frames is, by definition, a contract. Even an oral contract holds some weight in legal situations, and if one of the parties is not holding up their contractual obligations then that would be considered to be a breech of contract. In that case, the non-breeching party is entitled to make a suit against the breeching party on specific grounds (material/fundamental/etc breech) and, through legal action or arbitration, the breeching party must make amends.

However, you must be able to demonstrate that the other party is in fact in breech of contract and, as Plow said, it seems like this could be difficult to prove.

If you're really into this, try looking at the NY Dept. of Justice's website and see if you can research legal cases online from there. If you can find similar cases, and see the court's rulings and recommendations you may get some clues in how to proceed.

[Michaera]

PS: To be totally frank, if there's any kind of religious aspect to this (ie. you pay $50 a month to Lady Dashuba in exchange for her protective powers to keep the Dark Lord Thrakerzog out of your hair until your cheques start to bounce) I wouldn't hold out too much hope.

Thanks Eles. This is a lot like what it sounds like to me, but the official story that's been reported to me has been a little ambiguous so I'm not sure how it was officially worded. Needless to say I didn't agree with it all in the first place but I didn't have much say in it either.. And unfortunately there was no contract involved or anything, as far as I know, but of course we can probably get checks and stuff that had been cleared for this service or whatever it was.

It's a shame though. Could've paid my car off twice with all the money that went into it. Some people.....

[Slapper]

Someone get mixed in with Scientology?

[Charla]

Sounds like Scientology meets Voodoo to me.

[Einherjar]

Sounds like it needs to become boot meets face to me.

[Katlan]

Sounds like a "verbal / oral" contract to me and thats only enforceable if it's over $10,000 and both parties agreed to it. If there is something in writing then ur fine as long as u can prove it. Oral contracts are considered "good faith agreements" so it really depends on the situation. If the person was just giving the other money as an investment (in the hopes of being paid back), courts have a tendency to shrug it off saying something like "it was an agreement made w/the understanding that there is potential to not be paid back" and then ur screwed.