Account Lost and Recovered

[Sera]

Question: If ryko knew the whole time, why did he defend taj early on? Who else knew? I'm guessing Taj didn't share this with only ryko.

PS: I dont care if these people bought gil. That changes nothing.

My guess is that he was busy being sure none of us had PMed our info to each other or done anything compromise-able (not sure if this is actually a word, sorry) before he basically made himself or his LS possible future targets.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Question: If ryko knew the whole time, why did he defend taj early on? Who else knew? I'm guessing Taj didn't share this with only ryko.

PS: I dont care if these people bought gil. That changes nothing.

My guess is that he was busy being sure none of us had PMed our info to each other or done anything compromise-able (not sure if this is actually a word, sorry) before he basically made himself or his LS possible future targets.

But he DEFENDED Taj...

[Wizerd]

No. I've stated a bajillion times that he was wrong for what he did. The only thing I am pointing out is that steps were not taken to protect themselves.
The guy who walks into your house and steals your TV is still wrong, but if you left your front door unlocked, you're still a moron without a TV.

The door was locked you moron. Taj stole the hidden (not hidden very well, but hidden) key and let himself in.

[Garret]

I even threw in a pair of Herald's Gaiters!

this reminded me of some good times taj

and its not like the galka would be upset about 25 bucks when he already spends money on gil, amirite?

If you want to be technical in trying to drag my name through the mud it was spent on an occasion 3 years ago with no subsequent, you can ask Taj to confirm that if you care. Regardless I wholeheartedly defend any and all conduct of mine in the last 3 years, you can care or not care about the latter part of that statement, or the general validity of it all, I know it's true.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

No. I've stated a bajillion times that he was wrong for what he did. The only thing I am pointing out is that steps were not taken to protect themselves.
The guy who walks into your house and steals your TV is still wrong, but if you left your front door unlocked, you're still a moron without a TV.

The door was locked you moron. Taj stole the hidden (not hidden very well, but hidden) key and let himself in.

More like the door was locked, no hidden key, but the lock was only a 4 pin lock, those noobs.

and I still want to know wtf is up with Ryko. He acted really strange througout this ordeal. And why isn't Taj banned? I mean he definitely isn't somebody we want around anymore.

[Charismatic]

Taj was dumb for telling other people what he did.

You should have just done it and not said anything, fucker.

[Yutuyu]

No. I've stated a bajillion times that he was wrong for what he did. The only thing I am pointing out is that steps were not taken to protect themselves.
The guy who walks into your house and steals your TV is still wrong, but if you left your front door unlocked, you're still a moron without a TV.

The door was locked you moron. Taj stole the hidden (not hidden very well, but hidden) key and let himself in.

Saying it wasn't hidden very well isn't true either. What percentage of the population do you think would be smart enough to do what Taj did. As far as I understand from previous entries in the thread he managed to somehow download a backup of the forums, run them locally, and get passwords from there.

I'm willing to bet that less than 1% of the population is capable of doing that.

[Ashira]

Too many things to try and quote here.

@Hex: Nice try, but you're hardly outing me. I've fully disclosed my history here in at least three threads, though it still took everyone by surprise the most recent time; probably because more people read that thread than others.

@..Shuvo I think it was: Someone else summarized it, but from what I gather it is not the buying of the gil; but rather, the sides of the fight tends to be the people who denounce and deny they ever did so and then are found out vs those who admit to being stupid. And in the case of DVS, where he spent a lot and continued to do so, and possibly used it to earn a coveted item in game and talked about how hard he worked for it.. etc. It cheapens it.

I admitted having done so a very long time ago in a thread where someone else was trying to come to terms with his having made the same mistake (though he spent a lot more on it, which I think is more where his dilemma was coming from, that he'd spent a good amount of money on it (this is all back in like, '04)). I admitted that I too had purchased -- though in comparison a small amount -- to show that it could be anyone, that it was more players than people realized, and people should not have been jumping down his throat for it, especially if he truly truly was not planning on continuing the practice.

Some people will never forgive me for it; some still demonize me for it and try to use it to hound me. I figure somewhere in their heads they just assume it's a practice I still use. It isn't worth the time to try and convince them otherwise. It was a stupid mistake, and I can't really give the details that will satisfy people with why I did so. All I can do is come to terms with it, and be sure I am up front about it before I start arguing about the bads of buying gil, so that I cannot be labeled a hypocrite.

@...someone else: I am not excusing Taj because he is a kid. Rereading my post, I didn't really clarify my point in that paragraph very well, I realize, because at least two people quoted/paraphrased my remarks about him being young. I sort of assumed it would read properly.

It wasn't about the fact that he is young and thus we have to excuse him, but more about the fact that after he did so much for us and this game in general and he was sort of made an unofficial mascot for a while, it was easy to forget he was *only* a kid (and I use the term broadly anyway; I know 22 yrs olds I've referred to as kids ;P), and WE, as the community, faulted by just assuming because he was able to do these things, he was fully able and ready to take the moral responsibility that goes with it. It wasn't pointing out that he was a kid, it was reminding ourselves of such.

and @ the other wiki discussions: remember that the magic number 2300 was only what they figured out what *should* be left over.. not the actual amount of money gone (it was quite a bit more). It makes no sense that a fundraiser that earned more than enough for you to rent your servers for a year somehow only lasted four months.. and why not pay that year up front? Unless.. you were already talking about moving and still raising money. Which is more of the issue at hand anyway. ;P


And I have a feeling people claiming they changed passwords from whatever time various PMs were sent are just lying to make it look worse.

[Liselle]

Can we avoid the tortured analogies? I feel like I'm reading Slashdot, here.

[Sidanoir]

There is no reason to be remorseful over an internet related crime that if sent to authorities would get laughed at and discarded, he is clearly enjoying this.....
There is nothing you can do on the internet of equal harm that he did to the "victims" of this.....

Why do people in real life show remorse?
Typically its cause they caught and have to deal with consequences.....there are no consequences here, he has immortalized himself in this gaming community here......he doesn't play much anymore, he still obviously has some friends? He probably gained more Notoriety doing this than he had before...

If the people he did this to were able to exact revenge either through getting him arrested or the ever living shit kicked out of him, I think he would be slightly more remorseful...but they can't so again why would he care?

Just remember that in life what goes around comes around...it really is true, things have a way of making themselves right.

Hopefully the "victims" can all move back to their servers now, so no real damage was done...and all items seem to be recovered hopefully

Even though 17 to me is a kid, as was said its hardly young enough to say they don't know right from wrong

And by this post/discussion carrying on to 40 pages we are further giving in to what Taj wants

[Wizerd]

No. I've stated a bajillion times that he was wrong for what he did. The only thing I am pointing out is that steps were not taken to protect themselves.
The guy who walks into your house and steals your TV is still wrong, but if you left your front door unlocked, you're still a moron without a TV.

The door was locked you moron. Taj stole the hidden (not hidden very well, but hidden) key and let himself in.

More like the door was locked, no hidden key, but the lock was only a 4 pin lock, those noobs.

and I still want to know wtf is up with Ryko. He acted really strange througout this ordeal. And why isn't Taj banned? I mean he definitely isn't somebody we want around anymore.

Nah. If it were locked without a key and picked, then that would mean Taj hacked the passwords himself, instead of finding the passwords.

Yutuyu: If you can find the password to the admin database, the rest is about the easiest thing ever. Downloading the database dump doesn't take long and running it locally isn't very hard. He doesn't even have to run the whole forums locally, he can snoop around the PMs pretty easily if he wants to.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Gilbuying is a crime akin to doing drugs. Yes, it's bad and can support bad activities financially but seriously, it's not that huge. Just cut it out.

Ashi, do you know anything more? There is something we are seriously missing here.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

No. I've stated a bajillion times that he was wrong for what he did. The only thing I am pointing out is that steps were not taken to protect themselves.
The guy who walks into your house and steals your TV is still wrong, but if you left your front door unlocked, you're still a moron without a TV.

The door was locked you moron. Taj stole the hidden (not hidden very well, but hidden) key and let himself in.

More like the door was locked, no hidden key, but the lock was only a 4 pin lock, those noobs.

and I still want to know wtf is up with Ryko. He acted really strange througout this ordeal. And why isn't Taj banned? I mean he definitely isn't somebody we want around anymore.

Nah. If it were locked without a key and picked, then that would mean Taj hacked the passwords himself, instead of finding the passwords.

Yutuyu: If you can find the password to the admin database, the rest is about the easiest thing ever. Downloading the database dump doesn't take long and running it locally isn't very hard. He doesn't even have to run the whole forums locally, he can snoop around the PMs pretty easily if he wants to.

You have to pick the lock to get into the house, but the bank account numbers are just lying around.
He hacked to get into the database, but the acct info was just lying around.

[Svenghali]

The door was locked you moron. Taj stole the hidden (not hidden very well, but hidden) key and let himself in.

Make sure you read that, Sera. I posted it again just so you would.

I guess you haven't read AAngelicus' posts, but he has even asked Taj about how he got into the system. Does your linkshell have forums? Are they protected against any and all threats? And before you respond with "well I didnt PM my account info", save it. When people generally talk in their LS forums, they do so without being in fear of an unexpected hacker getting in and seeing everything. The extreme that Taj went to is completely and utterly unacceptable. There's a difference between having power and knowing how to use it. I know its hard to see when you stand on one side of the fence only.

[Sasarai]

He acted really strange througout this ordeal. And why isn't Taj banned? I mean he definitely isn't somebody we want around anymore.

I don't know, if he turns out to remorseful over it I think people would be willing to forgive and forget assuming he goes the distance to make it right/apologises.

This would after all be the first time he has crossed the line with the majority of people in BG (everyone, basically) and I don't think it would be impossible for him to repair that, given his contributions (Helping with the Wiki, Windower etc).

[wintersquall]

wow, 34 pgs.

hmm... summary.

taj is a douchebag, an immature script-kiddy who allows other people to justify/condone his actions, because he just really doesn't care. maybe he's pretty good with computers, but that doesn't excuse the douchebaggery... only explains the arrogance. and there are a lot of people better than him, who don't fuck other people over.

he doesn't give a shite, and it wasn't done with some deep sense of justice lol... he wanted gearz and gilz... read the irc.

ppl, plz get your heads out of his arse. i'm really sorry for all those who got screwed, and if it costs them actual money they damn well should go after the kid, even if it takes small claims court.

and there are STILL people defending him.


/wow

if he hacks my BG pass, he'll like it.

[Yutuyu]

It wasn't about the fact that he is young and thus we have to excuse him, but more about the fact that after he did so much for us and this game in general and he was sort of made an unofficial mascot for a while, it was easy to forget he was *only* a kid (and I use the term broadly anyway; I know 22 yrs olds I've referred to as kids ;P), and WE, as the community, faulted by just assuming because he was able to do these things, he was fully able and ready to take the moral responsibility that goes with it. It wasn't pointing out that he was a kid, it was reminding ourselves of such.

And I have a feeling people claiming they changed passwords from whatever time various PMs were sent are just lying to make it look worse.

Why are you defending him? WHY? Will you ever stop making excuses for the little shit?

That's what people are tired of seeing. All you need to do is post, "What you did was fucked up Taj" and leave it at that. But no, you keep qualifying it with other excuses, trying to justify his behavior.

He doesn't even care enough to justify it himself.

If he isn't going to apologise, then he doesn't DESERVE compassion, he doesn't deserve forgiveness, and he doesn't deserve understanding. Every post he has made here since the story broke was basically rubbing salt on the wound, dancing around like a jester, and attention whoring.

Stop taking up for him.

[Shuvo]

@ Ashira : That does make sense, but the trouble is initially people weren't saying that. Initial responses were just comparing amounts of gil bought. No offense but I think the only reason you're excused for it is because people like you a lot more, and that you're a girl.

Can we avoid the tortured analogies? I feel like I'm reading Slashdot, here.

Agreed.

BTW, is BG really slow right now or is it just me?

[Eticket]

They already explained why he's not banned. He could just sign up through a proxy and post anon if he wanted. May as well just let him post so you know it's him.

better the devil you know than the devil you don't afterall

[Sev]

Again to those who had your accounts taken, if you bitch moan and scream at S-E demand to talk to supervisors they can world shift you back, and probably take off the charge. Say your account was hacked with no 3rd party software and put the blame on them. If you threaten to quit write up and alert the community they usually find that "loop hole"

Fun fact: certain people at SE (either the GM's or some head office people) actually do read these msg boards...

Fun Fact: My good friend was fired from the GM team for attempting to restore banned characters.

Fun Fact 2: You can still get them moved back, if you bitch at S-E they allowed someone else to make a charge on your credit card. Even with the account breach being your fault (tho you dont tell them) the rest is their fault.