Endgame LS Rules / Points

[Khalil]

And I'll counter your argument by saying that if you cant trust your LS leader to make the decision that's best for your LS then you shouldn't be in that LS in the first place. Problem isn't the system, it's that people latch onto shitty leaders.

It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter if he'll always put the LS in front of himself, which I doubt for 100% no leaders can. So, in that case, what do I do? Like I said, point systems remove that "favortism" factor but it leaves room for others possible mistakes...

It's certainly not an admission to use points just because you can't trust your fellow LS leaders, but with power, you do fucked up shit.

[Ryko]

And I'll counter your argument by saying that if you cant trust your LS leader to make the decision that's best for your LS then you shouldn't be in that LS in the first place. Problem isn't the system, it's that people latch onto shitty leaders.

It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter if he'll always put the LS in front of himself, which I doubt for 100% no leaders can.

So you don't trust him or he's not the type of person to be trusted to make the best decision for the LS in both terms of fairness and utility, period.

[Churchill]

Points are stupid, lol.

I love people who say this. I'll counter your argument with divine-choice is stupid, lol.

And I'll counter your argument by saying that if you cant trust your LS leader to make the decision that's best for your LS then you shouldn't be in that LS in the first place. Problem isn't the system, it's that people latch onto shitty leaders. People are just as prone to fudge points or dick people over with either system, a point system in of itself is an admission that the people can't trust who they're following.

Or you know, who wants to keep track of every decimal at every event?

If you have good members they will come to all events on your schedule that they can attend.

If you are a good leader, your schedule reflects an ability to have an event each day or most days so people can attend things and not feel left out because they have school.

If you have good members, a guy who doesn't play Paladin won't ninja lot a surcoat.

If you are a good leader, you will make sure people are rewarded for their performance and attendance by always doing events that someone can lot on and feel rewarded. That, and being the last to lot so that some douchebag can't ninja a surcoat.

EDIT: Khalil, I would feel bad that you haven't had a shellholder that is selfless, but I really don't care about people outside of my LS.

[Khalil]

If you have the power, you can do fucked up shit. Simple as that.

[Ryko]

If you have the power, you can do fucked up shit. Simple as that.

And yet some people manage, weird.

[Dian]

If you have the power, you can do fucked up shit. Simple as that.

Can do =/= Will do.

Also you can do plenty of fucked up shit without leading.

[ringly]

And I'll counter your argument by saying that if you cant trust your LS leader to make the decision that's best for your LS then you shouldn't be in that LS in the first place. Problem isn't the system, it's that people latch onto shitty leaders.

It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter if he'll always put the LS in front of himself, which I doubt for 100% no leaders can. So, in that case, what do I do? Like I said, point systems remove that "favortism" factor but it leaves room for others possible mistakes...

It's certainly not an admission to use points just because you can't trust your fellow LS leaders, but with power, you do fucked up shit.

bad calls do and will get made, its human nature. points eliminate this imo, and rewards your most active members

[Khalil]

Or you know, who wants to keep track of every decimal at every event?

If you have good members they will come to all events on your schedule that they can attend.

If you are a good leader, your schedule reflects an ability to have an event each day or most days so people can attend things and not feel left out because they have school.

If you have good members, a guy who doesn't play Paladin won't ninja lot a surcoat.

If you are a good leader, you will make sure people are rewarded for their performance and attendance by always doing events that someone can lot someone on and feel rewarded. That, and being the last to lot so that some douchebag can't ninja a surcoat.

EDIT: Khalil, I would feel bad that you haven't had a shellholder that is selfless, but I really don't care about people outside of my LS.

As a matter of fact, I send in points regularly to keep the our point system updated, we don't have decimals, just numeric values for mostly everything that's considered a ls event.

I trust everyone to come to a lot of raids but in both systems, you try motivating people in a non-mandatory enforced ls, you won't be able to, unless you really shame them into doing so.

Our leader is good and schedules raids to the best of his ability. I'm not denying, I'm just saying that any leader can fuck up a ls, regardless if he was an excellent one or not.

I have seen divine-choice LS where they gave a RDM and BLM-onry a Dring. Tell me, how is that different than if a NIN and PLD got a Dring from a point system? Keep in mind that the RDM and BLM had NIN and PLD, from what I can tell.

My shellholder is a human, like all of us and will make mistakes and play favorites, do doubt about that. It's just the fact you guys seem to think it only happens in point systems...

[Khalil]

If you have the power, you can do fucked up shit. Simple as that.

Can do =/= Will do.

Also you can do plenty of fucked up shit without leading.

You're an idiot. If I can do it, what's stopping me of actually doing?

[Ryko]

If you have the power, you can do fucked up shit. Simple as that.

Can do =/= Will do.

Also you can do plenty of fucked up shit without leading.

You're an idiot. If I can do it, what's stopping me of actually doing?

Not being a shitty person? Once again goes back to the concept that if you think your LS leader will fuck you over why are you following them?

[Churchill]

Why wouldn't things be mandatory?

Sky/Sea/Ground/ would be mandatory, and other specified events via forums. Miss something to xp? Kicked. Fake AFK or attending only events to benefit yourself? Kicked.

Better to have a group of 20 friends than a linkshell of 50 whores.

[SephYuyX]

It also helps eliminate any member bitching as well "Wtf did Jimmy get red legs and not me /cry/cry" "Well because hes been to about 50 more events than you, and actually shows up to events when he already has the items that could drop"

People like to see how much they show up compared to others as well, it's an informative tool.

[Churchill]

It also helps eliminate any member bitching as well "Wtf did Jimmy get red legs and not me /cry/cry" "Well because hes been to about 50 more events than you, and actually shows up to events when he already has the items that could drop"

People like to see how much they show up compared to others as well, it's an informative tool.

What if Jimmy always plays WHM and doesn't need Crimson Legs to help the LS? That's a fucking waste, and where points fail.

[SephYuyX]

What LS would give shit to a person they cant wear?

[Khalil]

Not being a shitty person? Once again goes back to the concept that if you think your LS leader will fuck you over why are you following them?

Like I've said twice so far, if you are in the position to do these kind of things, you do have the option of doing it. You seem to be implying that I fully trust my leader or any leader to make the right decision for the LS all the time, which I don't. I wouldn't even trust myself being a trustworthy leader all the time. It's human nature.

[Ryko]

What LS would give shit to a person they cant wear?

He didn't say they couldn't wear them, he said the person regularly showed up as a job that couldn't wear them, he could very well have a RDM or a DRG capable of putting them on.

[Julian]

Not a big fan of points, never been in a points ls, and never want to be in one.

But one thing I never got, is why people would like.. make a pop run worth 10 points and killing gods worth 20, or something. That's retarded, killing gods, in sea or sky, is easy shit. Farming the damned pop items is what should be worth way more than actually gathering just for kill.

but, lolpoints, whatever, don't really care.

/point system works best, imo

[Dian]

If you have the power, you can do fucked up shit. Simple as that.

Can do =/= Will do.

Also you can do plenty of fucked up shit without leading.

You're an idiot. If I can do it, what's stopping me of actually doing?

Not being a shitty person? Once again goes back to the concept that if you think your LS leader will fuck you over why are you following them?

My point exactly.

[Khalil]

Why wouldn't things be mandatory?

Sky/Sea/Ground/ would be mandatory, and other specified events via forums. Miss something to xp? Kicked. Fake AFK or attending only events to benefit yourself? Kicked.

Better to have a group of 20 friends than a linkshell of 50 whores.

I think the exact same way, Churchill. I would like my ls to establish a mandatory system up but the drama from it and the excuses would be horrible, not to say that all excuses would not be good ones. Plus, which I have shared your views, I have missed a couple of raids in the past 3 weeks so make it stay the way it is would be me being a hypocrite. I want people to come not because they have to, but because they want. I can't explain any better than that.

Edit: Grammar.

[Khalil]

To the OP; I think your points are too much for basic end-game things. Unless, you want to make Byakko's haidate like 600 points in order to lot. If so, go for it.