Endgame LS Rules / Points

[UnwittingInsomniac]

Point system in place to keep track of who shows up how often, easily point out the slackers, and to determine a general order for things lots of people want and can use; see Haidate, WLegs, etc.

Roster of people who are not douchebags and will pass over something for their 3rd level 75 job for someone who ONLY has one job and reliably comes to events.

No loot drama so far. The whole "roster of people who are not douchebags" thing goes a long way.

[Saraphym]

No offense to whichever leader came up with our system, and please don't kick me for saying this (because I know whoever came up with the system reads these forums), but YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT.

Oh, and I like how our gaiters went for like 150+ points, justice torque 35 points, but our last ridill only went for 9.

lol, maybe time to switch ls or encourage a system change? It does sound pretty ridiculous.

[Grey Jorildyn]

A point system is great, but it has to encompass as many events as possible. Your linkshell thus has to participate in as many end game events as possible. You have to keep your points valuable. This means not make events worth outrageous amounts of points and also having a steady outlet for points. Most linkshells accomplish this through botting I'd imagine, to guarantee that points go out of the system regularly and aren't held onto. This is especially attractive in shells that keep a bank and value their points against said bank. Everyone wants everyone else to spend points so their points are "worth more" when they trade them up for gil.

I've always felt that the way to keep points valuable is to keep point earning low, offer a variety of events, and have outlets for people to spend points on stuff other than gear. Karasu's system is based on 1 point, that is, it's the most you can earn for any one fight (ie. Tiamat), and points are adjusted along this gradient in .25 increments. We vary our events to include a good balance of everything, including ToAU beastmen kings, pop NMs, and other stuff that isn't really "end game". We have a lot of fun with our weekend events, which are basically those I just mentioned. They are the "fun" events that we do for kicks and maybe to spend a little points. We do internally sea and sky farming, limbus, dynamis, ground, and einherjar. We also take craftable items dropped in all these events that are valued more than 100k, and once per week we hold an auction in which players can bid on them for gil.

I'm not going to claim that Karasu's system is perfect, but our members are very happy that their points are valuable. They can save them up for that big item, low ball stuff they only want somewhat, or toss a few at an item during an auction to try and score some gil. It's in the hands of the members to choose what they want to spend their points on, just like how people spend their gil in the game, or their money irl. We keep points coming in and moving out pretty steady and we work as a team and moral remains high, even when we fail at something the first or second time.

As for divine power systems, I will always feel that they are inherently doomed because they place all their belief in human judgment, which is often errored. See: history. Any system can cause drama, but would you trust someone you don't know to give you and everyone else gear? How can one person, or a group of them be held accountable to know and remember all the efforts you have put in to earn what you want? Maybe in a small linkshell this works, but in a large end game linkshell, I don't see how it's possible. Most of the drama sparked in points based linkshells are from people who didn't have enough points to outbid the winner anyway, and it's usually because they either got some other big item recently and spent a ton of points on it, or simply don't pull their own weight to earn enough points to outbid the winners. I guess it could also be tenure in a linkshell that defines it, but who is gonna give a Ridill to the three week old member in the divine power linkshell? No one! And so the same applies in the points-based linkshell.

[Meloria]

My LS uses a variety of systems. Each event has a point value. Values vary on difficulty. Members use points to cash in for gil or ancient coins (not to be sold). 100 points = 1mil, 1 point = 1 coin. We keep attendance of every event. Then at the end of the month figure out how often people are attending. The general rule is that you need to hit 50% in order to retain lotting rights for things like sky/dynamis/limbus for the next month.

We also take into account when people can't be online. In order to lot sky people who helped farm get priority. If 2 people farmed and both want haidate (must have proper job and level to equip it) they /random. Whoever wins gets to lot.

City,CoP, and beaucidine are lotted by /seacom (if you're able to lot), same with limbus. Need to have the job at the level to use the gear. People who aren't allowed to lot AF due to attendance can still lot the synth items. If a piece of gear goes to freelot, members on probation can lot. For Xarc sackholders (about 5 of us) vote on drops. Same goes for sea and king drops.

Our system isn't perfect, but it works for us. There will always be complaints. Someone will always think they are more deserving than someone else. It does allow people to see where they stand with respect to other members. It doesn't penalize new members for being new. Although our new members go through a 30 day probation period where they are unable to lot anything other than freelots.

[Hapernack]

I'm sorry to be a downer but can someone please explain to me why the fuck this is in the Advanced section? Are we going to discover some new NM or new drop through discussion of your own LS's systems? This is like those "general topics" that show up on alla every 5 hours.

[Naygor]

Discussion of endgame is about as advanced as you're gonna get.

[Croaker]

This is especially attractive in shells that keep a bank and value their points against said bank. Everyone wants everyone else to spend points so their points are "worth more" when they trade them up for gil.

Beware of linkshells with "Banks".

Any gil not paid out in full on a regular basis, it is just gil waiting to be stolen.

[Ashira]

This is especially attractive in shells that keep a bank and value their points against said bank. Everyone wants everyone else to spend points so their points are "worth more" when they trade them up for gil.

Beware of linkshells with "Banks".

Any gil not paid out in full on a regular basis, it is just gil waiting to be stolen.

Just dish out money drops for points in this case. If no one wants it, then everyone needs to vote for the reward, it gets sold and split. Keep a minimum of money for the LS, it's not needed for much these days anyway.

[Rellinger]

There will also be the case where a point leader takes a three month break, then comes back and gets a rare item.

I was in a linkshell that implemented a solution to this. Although it broke for other reasons shortly afterwards.

Basically, for every week that someone is inactive, there is a decay on their points. Ours was something like -5 points a week for any week that you attended no events. It kept people from doing what you stated above in a fair way, because it was easy to get 5 points back (claim 1/3 kings and camp both others would net you 5 easily), but if they were gone for a long time it would take away enough of their points that they would have to catch up to people.

[Calecolindo]

If you can wear it, you can lot it.

If that policy can't work without greed or selflessness within your LS (ie, guy who rarely plays RDM, isn't going to lot on something a guy who ALWAYS does play RDM needs until the RDM's that need it have it) then you need new members. Other instances where players may disagree or whatnot end up being sack/shellholder decisions.

Everyone that is a regular participant at events will know who is not, so that also cuts out the guy who never shows up. Of course, people like that get kicked.

Sorry to pull from page one, but we went with this for a long time, and it seemed to work well. However, all it takes is a single individual to break the system, and that's exactly what happened. Our first Valor body went to an individual who, despite being having good attendance, had not brought paladin to an event in 6 months. He subsequently left the linkshell a couple of weeks later after losing on a love halberd to a rdm main, complaining that he should have been the only one to lot since he was a "dragoon main" (apparently failing to see the double standard).

We then went to a system that is working well so far. For certain events (Xarcabard, Proto Ultima/omega, etc.), members post what they want, and the ls leader stratifies them into groups based on attendance, raid performance, and intangible benefit to the linkshell. It feels that in this sense, we get the benefits of a point system, while retaining some degree of common sense that may be lost. People know where they stand on the list, and can improve their positions.

But really, the most significant thing in a linkshell is having a group of people who like to raid with one another and are happy when others get rewarded for gear. The person I talked about above who left the linkshell took a bunch of people who felt the same way as him (i.e. no consideration for others possibly deserving gear, desiring gear which made no sense ... one nin wanted a justice torque... and frequently complaining). I was angry at first losing so much good gear to them, but we have had no issues since they left. Blessings in disguise I guess.

[Evelyn]

Point systems work great if you have a main job rule and an officer discretion rule. Main job lets people get good gear for jobs they use all the time, and officer discretion makes sure the BRD-only newbie can't lot Haidate over a guy who uses war/sam/whatever a lot but isn't main.

Points systems let everyone see where they rank against everyone else, and gives people an incentive to show and contribute more. TBH I don't think I could trust any person enough with a /point only system, especially if they don't keep track of overall attendance.

[lysol]

Lol at seeing this while we are at it how do people feel about A rule that only gave a certain item say like umm osode for example but made it where could only get via lifetime points that didnt require any bidding at all and didnt matter what job you had or what lvl anyone else think thats a good idea. I personally have to deal with it and unfortunatly no other sky ls operates in the time frame I can play so its take it or leave it for me. Just like to get others thoughts on how fair this is when some might only have mage jobs hell some dont even have a 75 yet but were in ls since it was made

[Geneyus]

Check sig for why /point systems are better.

[nekoshoonen]

Only issues i see here is who/what decides MAIN job. Someone may have a 75 JOB that never gets used for 2 reason which are intertwined:
Someone may have had his first 75 job joined a LS attended lots of events as that job and geared it up nicely then leveled a second which in LS was not as needed because the LS at that time had a lot of other people who had that job and had used it all the time as it was their only 75 job and they geared it nicely.

How is this player ever gonna get the gear to compare to more "senior" players when you won''t let her lot for the items? If this player is a good player and puts a lot of effort in the LS who are you to deny him the items? Maybe he doesn't want to play his first 75 job anymore but isn't gonna want to come to an event with subpar gear as this wouldn;t be as beneficial to the LS.

He may get pissed off and leave cause they can't gear up the job they really want to play (and one day you may need them to play it) but someone who doesn't go to as many events as him can because it is their main job.
Points kinda take the edge off these kind of issues but i do agree they also have a lot of the downsides stated by others.

[Khalil]

Check sig for why /point systems are better.

Grats on being a fucking stupid lootwhore?

[Judai]

Check sig for why /point systems are better.

Grats on being a fucking stupid lootwhore?

qft

[Geneyus]

Not my fault no one else bid! We have dkp

[Lordwafik]

Not my fault no one else bid! We have dkp

lol awesome.

[Rocl]

GRATS ON A TERRIBLE SUBJOB >(

[Geneyus]

I usually sub war claim plz!