Mnk Acc

[ringthree]

That or Shura, yes. Either is better than O:hat.

Is this also based on the "I only xp with dual BRD's" scenario, also? If not then the increased chance to hit from Optical Hat is more than the ultra-small benefit of 5 STR or 5 Attack and lower Accuracy, if you are using meat.

[Churchill]

If I dual brd it's mar/mar/min/min for the most part, considering you're going to have mainly two handers in the PT. Places where you may not would be KRT or Sky, in which case acc is lol. You can still get 80-85% hit rate on mamool/birds with haste gear, swapping in acc for ws. I never don't eat meat on mnk, and I don't have acc issues. ohat is only 4 more acc for me, while str is kind of lol for mnk, i'd rather ws wearing shura.

[ringthree]

If I dual brd it's mar/mar/min/min for the most part, considering you're going to have mainly two handers in the PT. Places where you may not would be KRT or Sky, in which case acc is lol. You can still get 80-85% hit rate on mamool/birds with haste gear, swapping in acc for ws. I never don't eat meat on mnk, and I don't have acc issues. ohat is only 4 more acc for me, while str is kind of lol for mnk, i'd rather ws wearing shura.

An 80-85% hit rate would indicate that you generally are going to miss at least one hit on AF. One missed hit on AF is definitely going to cost you more in terms of damage than you get from the additional STR on Shura. So you are basically comparing a marginal increase in accuracy versus a margin increase in base damage. To me the choice is clear, accuracy at least increases your chances of doing a larger increase in damage more consistently.

I have found that people tend to exaggerate their capabilities when talking about gear and doing comparisons, and even if you are fully capable that does not mean that the person you are giving advice to is going to be as capable as you.

Basing advice on that is not really helpful and may even decrease the capabilities of those you are giving advice to.

[Churchill]

With haste gear, however I already posted the accuracy totals I personally use for tp/ws.

Max merits would be 292.

For me -
+TP ACC - 28+dex
+WS ACC - 53+dex

Can you use ohat? yes. But in a mnk acc topic you have to assume we are talking about mnks that have access to shura legs/body and more than likely head. If we are talking about unmerited AH mnks this is a different discussion altogether. Not to mention Pahluwan and Usukane don't necessarily require you to be the elite of the elite in terms of gear to obtain.

[Aireiya]

You can still get 80-85% hit rate on mamool/birds with haste gear, swapping in acc for ws.

Max merits would be 292.

For me -
+TP ACC - 28+dex
+WS ACC - 53+dex

Churchill, if you're claiming an 80-85% hit rate without any form of acc buff while eating meat, you're missing the entire point of the thread.

Max merits base acc is 282. Not 292. You get .9 acc for every skill past 200.
Also in my initial calculations, my dex is +21 from byakko's, rajas, and minuet. Your TP acc of +28 dex is only 7 more than this, which translates to about 3 more acc, which translates to about 1.5% higher hit rate.

72.5% + 1.5% is not 80-85%

Even with +53 dex on ws (seriously?), that's an extra ~25 dex, which translates to 12 acc, which is 6% hit rate. This is closer to 80%. That means you're still missing a hit on asuran on average. Is str going to compensate for a missed hit on asuran?

[Churchill]

Uh you're missing the numbers and I know 282 is max acc.

the numbers are acc without calculating dex.

[ringthree]

Uh you're missing the numbers and I know 282 is max acc.

the numbers are acc without calculating dex.

You seriously missed something... read the OP.

[Builttolast]

You can still get 80-85% hit rate on mamool/birds with haste gear, swapping in acc for ws.

Max merits would be 292.

For me -
+TP ACC - 28+dex
+WS ACC - 53+dex

Churchill, if you're claiming an 80-85% hit rate without any form of acc buff while eating meat, you're missing the entire point of the thread.

Max merits base acc is 282. Not 292. You get .9 acc for every skill past 200.
Also in my initial calculations, my dex is +21 from byakko's, rajas, and minuet. Your TP acc of +28 dex is only 7 more than this, which translates to about 3 more acc, which translates to about 1.5% higher hit rate.

72.5% + 1.5% is not 80-85%

Even with +53 dex on ws (seriously?), that's an extra ~25 dex, which translates to 12 acc, which is 6% hit rate. This is closer to 80%. That means you're still missing a hit on asuran on average. Is str going to compensate for a missed hit on asuran?

I have identical gear to what you listed plus maxed H2H merits and I hit 73-75% on merit mobs with march/minuet and eating Chiefkabobs/Yellow Curry

I also wear haste gear (Byakko, Turban, Black Belt) so I do lose some accuracy from not using OP hat but with the high attack rate and DA it is bearable. We certainly could use a small buff. 2H on same mobs with same songs hit 80-85% eating meats or nothing at all.

[Plow]

I just have to comment on how much I love bards that get in parties with 1 sam and 3 dual wielders and give nothing but double minuet, if we even get that.

[LinktheDeme]

arent cor brd better now because with hunter's roll and chaos roll with marchx2 from bard and eating meat (not to mention corsairs damage) Won't that have a higher attk and acc results than two brds doing min x2 and march x2 with sushi or min mad marx2 with meat.

Anyone wanna test this? :O

[Zarath]

arent cor brd better now because with hunter's roll and chaos roll with marchx2 from bard and eating meat (not to mention corsairs damage) Won't that have a higher attk and acc results than two brds doing min x2 and march x2 with sushi or min mad marx2 with meat.

Anyone wanna test this? :O

Yes, my bread and butter buffs for normal merit pts, generally speaking it's higher ATK+ and ACC+. Though I'd debate Hunters/Chaos/Minuet/March too as a viable buff set.

[Aireiya]

I have identical gear to what you listed plus maxed H2H merits and I hit 73-75% on merit mobs with march/minuet and eating Chiefkabobs/Yellow Curry

I also wear haste gear (Byakko, Turban, Black Belt) so I do lose some accuracy from not using OP hat but with the high attack rate and DA it is bearable. We certainly could use a small buff. 2H on same mobs with same songs hit 80-85% eating meats or nothing at all.

Actually, if you take the same merits and gear setup on mnk, but made it 2hd:

46 acc from dex turns into 92 acc from dex. This is 46 more acc, which means a 2hd'er would get cap out at 95% acc.

Of course, not all 2hd's have the A+ skill rating advantage, or would necessarily wear the same amount of acc as a monk, but the fact that the same exact gear set would give a monk 72.5% and a 2hd'er 95% is kinda amazing.

[Tyche]

any +STR = makes WS DMG higher <<; even if it's 10%, that's 10% over the course of 8 hits... When ur asuran fists SHOULD be pretty much maxed on acc what's the point of adding on more? O NOES I MISSED like... a hit or two every.... 5th WS D:. Then again, I get spoiled with my BRD/COR combos <<;

That's absurd lol. Assuming that the ACC TP modifier cannot exceed the 95% cap, you still aren't going to hit full AFs on average more than 2/3s of the time. That'd be the equivalent of going 40 strait hits without a miss if you go 5/5 full returns.

[sekaran]

Not ACC related.. but definitely MNK related. Anyone find Dune Boots to suck? I'm just 72 with no Kick Attack merits.. but man, regular kick attacks still hit like they did before Dune Boots. Only thing great is the crits, but that happens once in a blue moon.

[LinktheDeme]

arent cor brd better now because with hunter's roll and chaos roll with marchx2 from bard and eating meat (not to mention corsairs damage) Won't that have a higher attk and acc results than two brds doing min x2 and march x2 with sushi or min mad marx2 with meat.

Anyone wanna test this? :O

Yes, my bread and butter buffs for normal merit pts, generally speaking it's higher ATK+ and ACC+. Though I'd debate Hunters/Chaos/Minuet/March too as a viable buff set.

Second march in that situation (assuming merit pt) will always trump minuet.

[Builttolast]

Not ACC related.. but definitely MNK related. Anyone find Dune Boots to suck? I'm just 72 with no Kick Attack merits.. but man, regular kick attacks still hit like they did before Dune Boots. Only thing great is the crits, but that happens once in a blue moon.

My kick attacks without dune boots are noticeably lower. Kick attacks are equal to your base H2H damage without weapons equipped, so with weapons they will do less but Dune Boots have more +DMG than any of our H2H weapons so kicks will have the potential to do more. It's more noticeable on too weak mobs where you are closer to the attack cap, and as you said on Critical kicks it really becomes prominent. With melee hose and/or kick merits you'll see it proc a lot more frequently and will notice it a lot more.

[Sechs]

the increased chance to hit from Optical Hat is more than the ultra-small benefit of 5 STR or 5 Attack and lower Accuracy, if you are using meat.

I rarely find myself satisfied with meat these days, even with my loved Hedgehog Pie.
But honestly talking about these 4 gears for monk:
1) Shura Zunari-Kabuto (+5STR +5ACC -50ish HP)
2) Pahluwan Qalansuwa (+7ACC +5ATT, +something HP)
3) Optical Hat (+10ACC +10EVA)
4) Walahra Turban (+5% Haste, +30 HP)

Ok it's pretty evident how 4) is the best, but we're talking about situations when we want accuracy.
My idea is that in most situations the difference will be so little that it's probably not even worth to argue, but let me go in further details thinking about possible scenarios/situations:

* Our accuracy is decent, but not as much as we would like it to be *
In this scenario is debeatable if Shura would make a difference. We could argue about having like a 0.something % more accuracy, or 5% faster hits so more chances to land a hit. If accuracy is decent, in the end, I'd probably still stick to Walahra.

* Our accuracy needs a boost *
Walahra is out, Shura probably isn't enough.
The doubt remains between Pahluwan and Optical.
Is +3 acc on optical worth a compensation for +5 att?
They both seem like very minimal damage.
+3 acc is not going to make a noticeable difference in the end over our total damage over a certain amount of time ratio, but the same can probably be said for +5 att.
Honestly, even in this situation I would still use Qalansuwa.
I hink nowadays I would use Optical Hat only when I'm for some reason tanking in +eva gear, and I think it's more important to get that +10 eva rather than that +5% haste from Walahra for Utsusemi recast.

[ringthree]

the increased chance to hit from Optical Hat is more than the ultra-small benefit of 5 STR or 5 Attack and lower Accuracy, if you are using meat.

I rarely find myself satisfied with meat these days, even with my loved Hedgehog Pie.
But honestly talking about these 4 gears for monk:
1) Shura Zunari-Kabuto (+5STR +5ACC -50ish HP)
2) Pahluwan Qalansuwa (+7ACC +5ATT, +something HP)
3) Optical Hat (+10ACC +10EVA)
4) Walahra Turban (+5% Haste, +30 HP)

Ok it's pretty evident how 4) is the best, but we're talking about situations when we want accuracy.
My idea is that in most situations the difference will be so little that it's probably not even worth to argue, but let me go in further details thinking about possible scenarios/situations:

* Our accuracy is decent, but not as much as we would like it to be *
In this scenario is debeatable if Shura would make a difference. We could argue about having like a 0.something % more accuracy, or 5% faster hits so more chances to land a hit. If accuracy is decent, in the end, I'd probably still stick to Walahra.

* Our accuracy needs a boost *
Walahra is out, Shura probably isn't enough.
The doubt remains between Pahluwan and Optical.
Is +3 acc on optical worth a compensation for +5 att?
They both seem like very minimal damage.
+3 acc is not going to make a noticeable difference in the end over our total damage over a certain amount of time ratio, but the same can probably be said for +5 att.
Honestly, even in this situation I would still use Qalansuwa.
I hink nowadays I would use Optical Hat only when I'm for some reason tanking in +eva gear, and I think it's more important to get that +10 eva rather than that +5% haste from Walahra for Utsusemi recast.

I was just referring to using Optical Hat over other options for WS only. If you can't use Walahra Turban for TP build with meat you should use Sushi (except rare pulls like Mamool THFs)

[Sechs]

Well let's see... Haven't got a chance to party in old areas for ages, I wish I could with the gear I have now, but about ToAU areas now:
@Trolls I use Hedgehog Pie, and I'm happy with that.
@Colibri I use just random meat like Meat Mithkabob, because I hate to waste money, I usually bring 2 stacks with me, they're cheap
@Bhaflau thick camps depends where I camp, party composition, what we're pulling... I can say there have been times where I performed very nicely (parser showed it) with Hedgehog Pie, but I usually just eat my Sole Sushi +1 there, and at that time I have so much acc I really don't have to bother about acc in my equipment.

As for swapping Ohat for WS... well it depends which WS you're using. This may sound stupid in the "WS spam" era opened by ToAU, but with the recent patch Howling Fist is a consistent alternative to Asuran Fists on some monsters. As for Asuran Fists... I'm a lazy bum who's not particularly fond of swap macros involving the main slots (those slots that create a "delay" when you swap equipment), as much as I have a few macros with such swaps, I really despise them.
So yeah, I don't swap Ohat during Asuran Fists.
But that's just me, if I were to suggest someone else I concur with you, I would suggest him to swap whatever he's using on his head, with a Ohat during Asuran Fists.

Still, for this purpose, it's debatable wether or not Qalansuwa would be a decent alternative (for Asuran Fists swap). I don't remember the WS formulae, but I think that +5 attack should apply to each of the 8 fists of Asuran Fists? So in some situations that could make it worth, to use Qalansuwa over Ohat even for Asuran fists WS swap.
(I dunno, I'm just supposing... Of course I talk out of ignorance and my personal common sense, never did accurate tests about it)

[Tyche]

the increased chance to hit from Optical Hat is more than the ultra-small benefit of 5 STR or 5 Attack and lower Accuracy, if you are using meat.

I rarely find myself satisfied with meat these days, even with my loved Hedgehog Pie.
But honestly talking about these 4 gears for monk:
1) Shura Zunari-Kabuto (+5STR +5ACC -50ish HP)
2) Pahluwan Qalansuwa (+7ACC +5ATT, +something HP)
3) Optical Hat (+10ACC +10EVA)
4) Walahra Turban (+5% Haste, +30 HP)

Ok it's pretty evident how 4) is the best, but we're talking about situations when we want accuracy.
My idea is that in most situations the difference will be so little that it's probably not even worth to argue, but let me go in further details thinking about possible scenarios/situations:

* Our accuracy is decent, but not as much as we would like it to be *
In this scenario is debeatable if Shura would make a difference. We could argue about having like a 0.something % more accuracy, or 5% faster hits so more chances to land a hit. If accuracy is decent, in the end, I'd probably still stick to Walahra.

* Our accuracy needs a boost *
Walahra is out, Shura probably isn't enough.
The doubt remains between Pahluwan and Optical.
Is +3 acc on optical worth a compensation for +5 att?
They both seem like very minimal damage.
+3 acc is not going to make a noticeable difference in the end over our total damage over a certain amount of time ratio, but the same can probably be said for +5 att.
Honestly, even in this situation I would still use Qalansuwa.
I hink nowadays I would use Optical Hat only when I'm for some reason tanking in +eva gear, and I think it's more important to get that +10 eva rather than that +5% haste from Walahra for Utsusemi recast.

I was just referring to using Optical Hat over other options for WS only. If you can't use Walahra Turban for TP build with meat you should use Sushi (except rare pulls like Mamool THFs)

Absolutely disagree. If you can use meat with optical hat, but cannot with turban, then take off the attack gloves and put on noritsune kote, and still cop the turban. 5% haste > 16-20 attack.