CFH on NMs

[Velecic]

How hard would it be to make it unable to CFH on anything that checks as "Impossible to Guage"? Don't even mention Kirin adds.

Indeed, I always thought the same. It shouldn't be hard because aren't there some mobs, like those in Limbus (can't remember now), that can't be CFH'd?

Sure, it's interesting and funny drama sometimes but it gets old after a while.

I fully agree, I've wanted this since the first time I saw a NM get CFH'd by RMTs that were wiping (and all the times after that - Hi2u Sky RMTs CFHing Zip & others), I don't see how it would be hard to lock the CFH function on all "Impossible to Gauge" mobs like you say. And yes, Dynamis + Limbus Mobs (maybe others too) CANNOT be cfhed, it says "you cannot call for help at this time" if you try (no I didn't actually TRY to CFH, I was trying to disengage & run at same time a few times to go pull lol >.>)

[CoronA1979]

Depends on which GM you get. Some will help, some won't.

There is nothing in the terms of service that says calling for help on NMs is against the rules. So I don't see why anyone should get punished unless they state in chat lawl gonna cfh to piss people off.

Cue the SS of GM telling a LS that if they cfh a NM, I think Cerb, while they are wiping they will be jailed.

I wish I had a screenshot when I was told that on a Tiamat, which we killed but we're told that because on Ramuh the exact moment you claim you're called for holding. 2-3 man claims is hardly holding but on this server, people will claw and do w/e they can sadly.

[Missnasty]

I've always thought CFH was a valid tactic.

LS X fights NM Y for 30 mins and gets it down to 10% and dies.
LS Z comes in fresh and fights the last 10% and gets the loot.

How is that fair?

This seems a little more fair:

LS X fights NM Y for 30 mins and gets it down to 10% and realizes they're going to wipe so they CFH and die.
LS Z waits for the NM to get back to 100% and go unCFH, fights it, kills it and gets the loot.

Am I missing something as to how this isn't fair?

[Velecic]

I've always thought CFH was a valid tactic.

LS X fights NM Y for 30 mins and gets it down to 10% and dies.
LS Z comes in fresh and fights the last 10% and gets the loot.

How is that fair?

This seems a little more fair:

LS X fights NM Y for 30 mins and gets it down to 10% and realizes they're going to wipe so they CFH and die.
LS Z waits for the NM to get back to 100% and go unCFH, fights it, kills it and gets the loot.

Am I missing something?

Missing the part where it aggros & kills LS Z while CFHed so they can't kill it or they get no loot

CFHing an NM is just plain rude, selfish, and immature. It's saying "We can't kill it and get the item so we aren't going to let you get the item even though your group is capable of killing it" Instead of just accepting that you died and someone else should be allowed to fight the mob you died to.

[Lutia]

http://www.gley.net/ffxi/cerberusgm1.jpg

http://www.gley.net/ffxi/cerberusgm2.jpg

[Spekkio]

to slip out of the ethical debate and into the GMable debate, i think one of the key factors is if you overtly stated you were aiming to harm them by CFHing in any chatmode. GMs, to my knowledge, can read chat log archives for a zone for several hours. if they see a sackholder stating "CFH it so it kills them and we can come back to get it." the GM might have more ability to action on the item than if nothing were said because someone could use the argument that "well, we needed help, so we called for help!" as little water as it holds, it's likely enough to bar a GM from acting since they have peanuts for latitude as it is. still, as was stated before, 95% of it is going to be who you get. some GMs will do nothing, others will understand the situation better. GM quality is varied wildly as is their willingness to act. cue picture of GM complaining about tanking cerb w/ an earth staff and the picture of the GM asking about "holding" the antlion the bst had charmed as a pet. also, setting the uncfhable flag on kings, gods, etc=win.

[Seraph]

I've always thought CFH was a valid tactic.

LS X fights NM Y for 30 mins and gets it down to 10% and dies.
LS Z comes in fresh and fights the last 10% and gets the loot.

How is that fair?

This seems a little more fair:

LS X fights NM Y for 30 mins and gets it down to 10% and realizes they're going to wipe so they CFH and die.
LS Z waits for the NM to get back to 100% and go unCFH, fights it, kills it and gets the loot.

Am I missing something?

Missing the part where it aggros & kills LS Z while CFHed so they can't kill it or they get no loot

CFHing an NM is just plain rude, selfish, and immature. It's saying "We can't kill it and get the item so we aren't going to let you get the item even though your group is capable of killing it" Instead of just accepting that you died and someone else should be allowed to fight the mob you died to.

Assuming it's a CFH prior to a wipe, and not a CFH to MPK someone else, I don't see a problem. People complain about getting killed by a CFH mob, but stand back and wait for it to go yellow again. It's like waiting for the spawn all over again, except this time it can kill you if you aren't careful.

Making group #2 have to work the same amount for the item you failed to get isnt a crime. Most people dont like doing 90% of the work to watch someone walk in and finish the last 10%. Is it annoying to CFH? Yeah. Is it 'immoral', 'unfair', 'immature', or 'selfish'? Possibly, but probably not.

[Tricen]

LS wipes at 10% -> You're doing it wrong. It's perfectly fair, you failed at killing a monster, you suffer the consequences of sucking. Another person comes and kills because you failed.

[Starr]

If you wipe at any % you should gtfo and stop wasting people's time, it deserves to be taken from there.

[Tricen]

That's what I'm saying <_>

[Seraph]

If you wipe at any % you should gtfo and stop wasting people's time, it deserves to be taken from there.

Not saying people should, just saying I understand why some people do CFH (without the intent to MPK). "I'm not letting them capitalize on my hard work." Happens all the time.
I guess it depends on the circumstances of how the initial group wiped too. If they are getting lagged or MPKd by some other group somehow, I'd definately CFH instead of letting them wipe us and steal the mob consequence free. I generally don't see that anymore post BST supernerf though.

[Luto]

Depends on which GM you get. Some will help, some won't.

There is nothing in the terms of service that says calling for help on NMs is against the rules. So I don't see why anyone should get punished unless they state in chat lawl gonna cfh to piss people off.

Cue the SS of GM telling a LS that if they cfh a NM, I think Cerb, while they are wiping they will be jailed.

There's nothing in the TOS against it though, its probably the biggest grey area ever in the game. If done right then if people get punished its probably something that could be argued and won with like lawyers and legal shit. Also speaking of legal shit anyone ever sue SE for illegally scanning our processes? (Do they still do that?)

Going back a bit in the topic. I don't think it's really so much of a grey area. >_>

Grief tactics.

Correct answer.

[Alibeemac]

Nara mentioned a Faf a while ago on Lakshmi. This was pure classic. The LS in question got it to about 90% in 45mins or something and they were GM'd for holding (even tho they had a full or close to full alliance). The GM appears and warns them in /say that CFHing the mob is against the rules and they should pass it to someone who can kill it if they can't. So what happens when it is close to SSJ mode? They CFH. The person in question disappeared very quickly after that. I really think it depends on the GM tho and how long they were watching the mob being held etc. The amount of GMing that used to go on at Tiamat was retarded but the GMs pretty much tell people to get lost there now unless the LS who has it hasn't done any damage after a long, long time and they get a warning to start doing damage within the next 10minutes of they will be removed from the zone. But yeah if it is a random NM that no one cares about, the chances are your GM call won't be answered in time or the GM will laugh and say go away.

[evilpaul]

NO MORE DESPOT LIKE NMS

Despot fucking sucks now. More ulli ok, more despot nothx.

We get Despot (or somebody else does) everytime we camp it in under 2 hours. Fucking Ulli stones like to not drop once in four hours for us though.

[Sidanoir]

NO MORE DESPOT LIKE NMS

Despot fucking sucks now. More ulli ok, more despot nothx.

We get Despot (or somebody else does) everytime we camp it in under 2 hours. Fucking Ulli stones like to not drop once in four hours for us though.

Interesting considering in nearly 3 years of sky I have yet to see Despot pop before the 2 hour mark.

[Niiro]

I've always thought CFH was a valid tactic.

LS X fights NM Y for 30 mins and gets it down to 10% and dies.
LS Z comes in fresh and fights the last 10% and gets the loot.

How is that fair?

If you can't fucking kill it.

Don't fucking claim it.

CFHing a mob and letting it potentially go to complete waste and causing a shitstorm of drama all because you didn't know what you were doing, screwed up and got killed?

How's that fair?

[Saraphym]

I've always thought CFH was a valid tactic.

LS X fights NM Y for 30 mins and gets it down to 10% and dies.
LS Z comes in fresh and fights the last 10% and gets the loot.

How is that fair?

If you can't fucking kill it.

Don't fucking claim it.

because every LS kills all HNMs on their first go at it, right?

and like, I'd think a LS who took down 90% of a mob, is a lot more capable then a LS who comes in and takes the last 10%, no?

[Niiro]

I should re-phrase:

If you can't fucking kill it.

Don't fucking CFH and ruin it for other people that can.

As for another LS coming in and killing it at low HP: tough shit, you messed up and got killed, if the other LS is nice they may share the loot with you (this has happened) but don't expect it.

[Capo]

NO MORE DESPOT LIKE NMS

Despot fucking sucks now. More ulli ok, more despot nothx.

We get Despot (or somebody else does) everytime we camp it in under 2 hours. Fucking Ulli stones like to not drop once in four hours for us though.

Interesting considering in nearly 3 years of sky I have yet to see Despot pop before the 2 hour mark.

you must have been really really unlucky and somebody killed it just before you started camping every single time

[Seraph]

I should re-phrase:

If you can't fucking kill it.

Don't fucking CFH and ruin it for other people that can.

As for another LS coming in and killing it at low HP: tough shit, you messed up and got killed, if the other LS is nice they may share the loot with you (this has happened) but don't expect it.

Don't expect people to let you come in and kill the mob easy either. Most people are turned off by the 'Get Xtreme or get out" attitude. :-/