Hey SE

[Dian]

RNG needs some form of their own haste.

They kinda do, i's called 'Snapshot', he problem is that it's only like 6% haste to ranged attacks when fully merited. But RNG needs more, a Hellfire with silver bullets is 122 base DMG, most scythes are at about 100ish dmg. But a Wal-Mart DRK with decent gear choices can now do close to double DMG per hit following that last 2-hander update. And to add insult to injury ranged criticals are pathetic, only a 25% increase(max) per crit.

So, yea . . . RNG needs just a bit more than haste.

[Plow]

Except maybe Charbydis. But I've tanked that with 5 people. BRD, DRK (stun), me, RDM, WHM. Although I'm sure THF does the best job, NIN can pretty much do it with 3 too, I think.

I trio'd Charybdis as PLD/NIN with a RDM and SMN. <_> It's a joke.

lol nin can duo with brd or smn, thf could probably duo with any healer, smn can solo, and rdm can solo, all with ease

dunno why the hell anybody is using charby for an example of anything lol

[RKenshin]

Where's MNK? Or are you not talking merit/limbus/dynamis/salvage mobs? Cus then biggest damage doesn't matter as much as damage done/damage taken ratio where I'd put MNK ahead of DRK and DRG at least.

Was speaking in regard to what this patch changed amoung 2h DDs, and I was talking about pure damage output.

I'd quote you Ruke, but your wisdom is table breaking. While I agree with a lot of things you say, I'm not sure why you're mentioning only one piece of Homam gear. Perhaps my choices in equipment are quite different than your own, but I use 3/4 Homam (or 2, and Askar Hands, depending on situation) while main tanking pretty much everything. That's 9% haste, and 77 HP/MP, and Fast Cast. Sometimes I'll even alternately use Swift Belt.

I wasn't mentioning one piece, I was mentioning all three a typical PLD would use. But the point of saying that what Homam changed was an addition of ~4% Haste and 80 MP was because nothing about the Homam stats in itself on the feet/hand pieces are exclusive to those pieces of gear. The combination of the stats is indeed exclusive, but the individual stats are not. Only thing that was made available that couldn't be obtained before was the 4% haste on the leg piece (includes 1% Fast Cast), and the fact you could keep all that gear on full time and gain access to 80 MP.

So the point being that the Homam pieces didn't allow or give PLD access to anything they couldn't obtain before, again aside from the 4% haste on the legs and the 80 MP. Of course you could argue how difficult it'd be to afford the alternatives/extra sets of gear, but it doesn't change the fact that the option was still available before. And when it's broken down like that, it's hard to believe that Homam really changed much in itself as far as its stats go. The idea of an easy to get/free piece of gear which such great stats did a lot to encourage gear sets built with it/related to it without a doubt, but that's a different topic all together.

It'd kind of like me attempting to say that a set of whatever gear released soon that had all the same stats as Homam with maybe more enmity, except was equipable by NIN, has revolutionized the NIN job. It'd be a great set of gear no doubt, but all it'd do is compact multiple pieces of gear into one slot. The max amounts of haste/enmity/HP/etc NIN had access to wouldn't have really changed. So in reality NIN would be in the same position with the same potential as before, just with less gear swaps/etc.

[Eaglestrike]

RNG needs some form of their own haste.

They kinda do, i's called 'Snapshot', he problem is that it's only like 6% haste to ranged attacks when fully merited. But RNG needs more, a Hellfire with silver bullets is 122 base DMG, most scythes are at about 100ish dmg. But a Wal-Mart DRK with decent gear choices can now do close to double DMG per hit following that last 2-hander update. And to add insult to injury ranged criticals are pathetic, only a 25% increase(max) per crit.

So, yea . . . RNG needs just a bit more than haste.

Only way a scythe is going to double damage is if you're in full RACC gear using sushi...get some attack and for the most part gun will do more damage per hit than a scythe consistantly. Ryko might be able to post the pic I've seen of him doing shots for almost 400 damage on Puks as RNG/WAR. The difference is that DRK is going to be swinging at least twice as fast now (10% hasso, 15% spell, 10-15%ish in gear and march is 50% haste).

And I agree Ruke, Homam really wasn't the introduction of a gearset for PLD, but Homam did open up the line of thinking about PLD/NIN, looking back it was possible beforehand but Homam is what started to get more people thinking about it.

For the tanking thing, I pretty much consider PLD/NIN to be the best tank for most HNM's. Can negate damage almost as well as NIN can simply with shadows, can heal himself to make up for any extra damage taken, as well as any damage done through shadows, and has an ohshit ability on 5min recast. Though I can see what someone said earlier about as a PLD wanting a NIN/drk as their co-tank, that extra stun is nice, and honestly the only thing NIN really brings to the table over PLD (imo, and there are exceptions) for big HNM fights. NIN is easily a better tank for smaller stuff where their damage output is helpful, but on mobs they bring out a staff PLD is better than them pretty consistently.

[BRP]

I've said it many times: while increase in damage isn't really a bad thing, if you don't increase a RNG's utility, it will just be a money=damage job(may it be worth it or not). Well, Haste would be nice I guess.

[Pooky]

i'm disliked because i am controversial.

No, you're disliked because you're an idiot.

Oh God, look out BG, it's Zach. Save yourselfs!

Huh? O.o

I think you have me confused with someone else...

[Dian]

Ryko might be able to post the pic I've seen of him doing shots for almost 400 damage on Puks as RNG/WAR.

That's a horrible example. Ranged gets a HUGE DMG bonus against puks, that's like shooting bees in South Gusta.

Only way a scythe is going to double damage is if you're in full RACC gear using sushi...get some attack and for the most part gun will do more damage per hit than a scythe consistantly.

Full RACC gear is just plain retarded on anything that doesn't have a disgusting amount of evasion. And I'm referring to post 2H update where a DRK is running a ridiculous amount of attack by stacking STR and has auto-sushi because of the dex=acc change. On RNG you can't really reach that amount of attack, the only area where RNG can trump some of these DD jobs at all is a quick zerg.

I've said it many times: while increase in damage isn't really a bad thing, if you don't increase a RNG's utility, it will just be a money=damage job(may it be worth it or not). Well, Haste would be nice I guess.

I agree with this. However I think base DMG on a weapon should account for something.

[Amele]

WHM needs higher cure potency, maybe as a job trait, or to nerf RDM cures.

Please don't nerf my cures <_<;

Magic Cure Bonus ftw though, I never understood why WHM doesn't get this trait. It could scale up as they level just like MAB or MDB does. A WHM would cure for more than a RDM/WHM, who would then in turn cure for more than a RDM/BLM.

all whitemage really needs is a (decent) main job mp efficiency/recovery trait/ability.

seriously. there's something fucked up when of the 7 jobs with mp; the only one of them doesn't have any main job mp efficiency/recovery is supposed to be the premier healer.

[Dian]

WHM needs higher cure potency, maybe as a job trait, or to nerf RDM cures.

Please don't nerf my cures <_<;

Magic Cure Bonus ftw though, I never understood why WHM doesn't get this trait. It could scale up as they level just like MAB or MDB does. A WHM would cure for more than a RDM/WHM, who would then in turn cure for more than a RDM/BLM.

all whitemage really needs is a (decent) main job mp efficiency/recovery trait/ability.

seriously. there's something fucked up when of the 7 jobs with mp; the only one of them doesn't have any main job mp efficiency/recovery is supposed to be the premier healer.

Yeah, it's not like Cure V is the most MP efficient Cure spell in the game or anything.

[Sidanoir]

So much idiocy on these last few pages....I want my braincells back...

If you want to bitch that WAR can't tank, your just a stupid moron who no one trusts to tank probably cause you can't keep up shadows...

If its a mob you can melee...you can make a fucking SMN/NIN tank by putting THF and SAM/THF TAing them....give me a break..

Sounds like your LS doesn't depart from a standard mold for fights and doesn't care to mess around sometimes...or change things up..
And to the person that doesn't use enmity on PLD in dynamis....
Why would you not use enmity on PLD in dynamis.....and let me guess you sub NIN? Usually why you use PLD/WAR in dynamis is becauase you have an assload of slept mobs.....and if the PLD is good they should get hate on more than 1...and keep mages from dying...

I don't know what fucked up way your LS does dynamis, but it sounds like you either make very small cautious pulls or have so many people and plds that it doesn't matter what you do...
To me PLD/WAR keep mobs off mages, when its assisted WAR/NIN SAM/WAR etc. other dds can tank just fine...

And lol @ WAR/SAM being better damage in a 2 houred zerg fight than a kraken dark...right

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

WHM needs higher cure potency, maybe as a job trait, or to nerf RDM cures.

Please don't nerf my cures <_<;

Magic Cure Bonus ftw though, I never understood why WHM doesn't get this trait. It could scale up as they level just like MAB or MDB does. A WHM would cure for more than a RDM/WHM, who would then in turn cure for more than a RDM/BLM.

all whitemage really needs is a (decent) main job mp efficiency/recovery trait/ability.

seriously. there's something fucked up when of the 7 jobs with mp; the only one of them doesn't have any main job mp efficiency/recovery is supposed to be the premier healer.

Yeah, it's not like Cure V is the most MP efficient Cure spell in the game or anything.

BLU says Hai2u

[Amele]

WHM needs higher cure potency, maybe as a job trait, or to nerf RDM cures.

Please don't nerf my cures <_<;

Magic Cure Bonus ftw though, I never understood why WHM doesn't get this trait. It could scale up as they level just like MAB or MDB does. A WHM would cure for more than a RDM/WHM, who would then in turn cure for more than a RDM/BLM.

all whitemage really needs is a (decent) main job mp efficiency/recovery trait/ability.

seriously. there's something fucked up when of the 7 jobs with mp; the only one of them doesn't have any main job mp efficiency/recovery is supposed to be the premier healer.

Yeah, it's not like Cure V is the most MP efficient Cure spell in the game or anything.

curaga IV? bluemage? etc.
how often do you see cure V even necessary? (and no. major events with multiple healers are not typically cure V useful - cure IV does plenty.. cure V is only thrown to trade mp for enmity; not efficiency)

[Elesar]

Why do I have to run all the way to each individual zone just to view a single cutscene for a mission or quest? Why can't there be a commonplace that lets us view all finished missions and quests cutscenes without having to run to every single zone just to watch the entire storyline for an expansion or quests?

[riddaraan]

So much idiocy on these last few pages....I want my braincells back...

If you want to bitch that WAR can't tank, your just a stupid moron who no one trusts to tank probably cause you can't keep up shadows...

If its a mob you can melee...you can make a fucking SMN/NIN tank by putting THF and SAM/THF TAing them....give me a break..

Sounds like your LS doesn't depart from a standard mold for fights and doesn't care to mess around sometimes...or change things up..
And to the person that doesn't use enmity on PLD in dynamis....
Why would you not use enmity on PLD in dynamis.....and let me guess you sub NIN? Usually why you use PLD/WAR in dynamis is becauase you have an assload of slept mobs.....and if the PLD is good they should get hate on more than 1...and keep mages from dying...

I don't know what fucked up way your LS does dynamis, but it sounds like you either make very small cautious pulls or have so many people and plds that it doesn't matter what you do...
To me PLD/WAR keep mobs off mages, when its assisted WAR/NIN SAM/WAR etc. other dds can tank just fine...

And lol @ WAR/SAM being better damage in a 2 houred zerg fight than a kraken dark...right

Well, Mr. Troll of the Year, the reason is very simple.

We do Dynamis - Xarc, typically, with 11 people. We farm the NMs we need, which is about 5 of them, and have about 2 hours after to do basic farming. Because we're very light on melee, I try to dish out as much damage as I can, which comes in bulk in the form of fast Spirits Withins. I can usually pump out 250 per WS per mob on non-NMs. And 2-3 per NM. So I don't need, always, the initial Flash, so I can divy it out for our second mob in a fighting order. How do I gain hate on mutliple mobs? We typically have a backup tank - either another PLD or a NIN - who catches extra mobs. And if our BRD gets hit? Awesome! That gives me a great Cure IV to establish hate on every single mob he's slept, all at once! And in case you have never played PLD, a Cure IV will secure you far better hate than a simple flash.

Just as a point on that, Flash & Provoke are spiked hate, which degrades really quicly. So unless your job is to sit around an just provoke slept mobs all day long, which I'm betting it sounds like you do, you'll know that if you Provoke a slept mob once, more than likely, when it wakes up 30seconds later, it's not going to attack you. It's going to attack the Bard, or Black Mage.

Anyway, in response to your post, the privilaged use of "..." is reserved for people who are inflecting an after thought, without saying it, or people who are allowing you to draw your own conclusions from what you've said.

A single period isn't emphasized more by "..."

Idiot.................................

[Sidanoir]

So much idiocy on these last few pages....I want my braincells back...

If you want to bitch that WAR can't tank, your just a stupid moron who no one trusts to tank probably cause you can't keep up shadows...

If its a mob you can melee...you can make a fucking SMN/NIN tank by putting THF and SAM/THF TAing them....give me a break..

Sounds like your LS doesn't depart from a standard mold for fights and doesn't care to mess around sometimes...or change things up..
And to the person that doesn't use enmity on PLD in dynamis....
Why would you not use enmity on PLD in dynamis.....and let me guess you sub NIN? Usually why you use PLD/WAR in dynamis is becauase you have an assload of slept mobs.....and if the PLD is good they should get hate on more than 1...and keep mages from dying...

I don't know what fucked up way your LS does dynamis, but it sounds like you either make very small cautious pulls or have so many people and plds that it doesn't matter what you do...
To me PLD/WAR keep mobs off mages, when its assisted WAR/NIN SAM/WAR etc. other dds can tank just fine...

And lol @ WAR/SAM being better damage in a 2 houred zerg fight than a kraken dark...right

Well, Mr. Troll of the Year, the reason is very simple.

We do Dynamis - Xarc, typically, with 11 people. We farm the NMs we need, which is about 5 of them, and have about 2 hours after to do basic farming. Because we're very light on melee, I try to dish out as much damage as I can, which comes in bulk in the form of fast Spirits Withins. I can usually pump out 250 per WS per mob on non-NMs. And 2-3 per NM. So I don't need, always, the initial Flash, so I can divy it out for our second mob in a fighting order. How do I gain hate on mutliple mobs? And we typically have a backup tank - either another PLD or a NIN - who catches extra mobs. And if our BRD gets hit? Awesome! That gives me a great Cure IV to establish hate on every single mob he's slept, all at once! And in case you have never played PLD, a Cure IV will secure you far better hate than a simple flash.

Just as a point on that, Flash & Provoke are spiked hate, which degrades really quicly. So unless your job is to sit around an just provoke slept mobs all day long, which I'm betting it sounds like you do, you'll know that if you Provoke a slept mob once, more than likely, when it wakes up 30seconds later, it's not going to attack you. It's going to attack the Bard, or Black Mage.

Anyway, in response to your post, the privilaged use of "..." is reserved for people who are inflecting an after thought, without saying it, or people who are allowing you to draw your own conclusions from what you've said.

A single period isn't emphasized more by "..."

Idiot.................................

Idiot says the guy who goes to dynamis-xarc as a DD PLD BUSTING OUT 250 DAMAGE WS OMFG ON NON NMS, are you serious?
Next time Mr. I don't know how to make clear points specify that you have a VERY specialized dynamis run in which you limit what you pull and fight so that your retarded combination has a prayer of working..
Troll my ass, and I can type however I want.
I know damn well what flash and provoke are and do..if you were a PLD on my dynamis runs, you would be worthless and I would replace you with a pre-patch DRG/NIN

[riddaraan]

Well, it's a good thing I'd never join your Dynamis.

[Dian]

WHM needs higher cure potency, maybe as a job trait, or to nerf RDM cures.

Please don't nerf my cures <_<;

Magic Cure Bonus ftw though, I never understood why WHM doesn't get this trait. It could scale up as they level just like MAB or MDB does. A WHM would cure for more than a RDM/WHM, who would then in turn cure for more than a RDM/BLM.

all whitemage really needs is a (decent) main job mp efficiency/recovery trait/ability.

seriously. there's something fucked up when of the 7 jobs with mp; the only one of them doesn't have any main job mp efficiency/recovery is supposed to be the premier healer.

Yeah, it's not like Cure V is the most MP efficient Cure spell in the game or anything.

curaga IV? bluemage? etc.
how often do you see cure V even necessary? (and no. major events with multiple healers are not typically cure V useful - cure IV does plenty.. cure V is only thrown to trade mp for enmity; not efficiency)

Cure IV is more of a PLD tool, but point taken.

[Sidanoir]

Well, it's a good thing I'd never join your Dynamis.

You would never be offered an invitation. The first warning is your Blood & Valor sig, might as well have /p Cure IV Praise Altana macros too right?

[riddaraan]

Well, it's a good thing I'd never join your Dynamis.

You would never be offered an invitation. The first warning is your Blood & Valor sig, might as well have /p Cure IV Praise Altana macros too right?

lol I don't have /p commands in my macros. Sorry though, that my work-in-progress has a creative title.

You know, you really remind me of this guy named Hex. Are you sure your LS isn't name Ressurection?

[Amele]

Cure IV is more of a PLD tool, but point taken.

Situationally, especially with good pld/nin or nin/drk, it's a good spell for whitemage to use too: when not-overcuring is more useful than enmity control for instance (no one bats an eye at a redmage using it generally; and whitemage will be wearing more -enmity)

but yeah, I know what you mean - alot of people shy away from using it because it has a reputation as a hate tool.