Hey SE

[riddaraan]

I suppose a good point to be made on the WAR tanking aspect is this:

Can RDMs be main healer in HNM setup? Sure! But why should they, when you have a WHM available? They should spend their time doing supplimental curing, but more importantly, enfeebling, and buffing their PTs with Refresh & Haste & such. Simply put, their better used elsewhere. Similarly with WAR tanking. Can they? Sure. But why would you want them to, when you'd much rather have them doing what they do best, blowing shit up with a Great Axe.

i like this. good way to put it. except change Great Axe to Ridill.


but generally you will have SAM and DRK instead of WAR so unless your LS is pro WAR you are screwed.

Well, keep in mind that since the 2H update, I believe WAR with Great Axe is much better than Ridill. Sub SAM. Use a Fortitude Axe. Bam bam. That's just my suggestion though. My WAR is 37, and will remain so, forever.

[Seraph]

My WAR is 37, and will remain so, forever.

...and ever, Amen.

[Caestus]

i used Ridill/Joy on Bahamut Round 2 zerk slept to 300% TP Steel Cyclone for 1809. then did Ridill/Joy with double haste, double accuracy and Haste song hits were doing around 50dmg per swing. i out parserd Mkris Darks there.



i left that LS due to the leader only allowing me to come WAR to Baha Round2. and BRD for everything else. so now i have no LS

[theo]

little late, was in class, but

Magic Cure Bonus ftw though, I never understood why WHM doesn't get this trait. It could scale up as they level just like MAB or MDB does. A WHM would cure for more than a RDM/WHM, who would then in turn cure for more than a RDM/BLM.

it's called cure potency and since WHM already has plenty of it it's clearly not the problem

Yes, because Cure Potency is clearly a job trait.

I see 11 WHM-equipable items on somepage with Cure Potency. 7 of them are weapons, 2 of them are bodies, one is a ring that nobody uses (to my knowledge), and one is salvage-only. So effectively 2 slots worth of equip in any normal situation. Oh, and only one of those slots is WHM exclusive. I'm not seeing how WHM has that much of an upper hand there.

All I'm saying is it makes sense to me for a WHM Cure 4 to heal for substantially more than a RDM Cure 4. Right now that isn't the case, but a job trait would change that. That change wouldn't necessarily "fix" WHM by any means, but at the very least it would allow a WHM to rely on lower tier healing spells so that his/her MP would last a little longer.

[Eaglestrike]

all i said was make WAR more desirable in situations (most) where they are not desirable at all.


sorry for ruffling all your pompous ass feathers. i stirred up something controversial and bam, get hated on. when even others who understand what i'm talking about said they are rather obsolete.

all of you from Alexander who seem to follow me around wherever i go. that's great. but if you make up lies and rumors about me, stop following me. there is no need for your pointless, made up flames.

The bottom line: i'm a Warrior who can tank anything in this game with success. (outside of AV) all i was trying to suggest was a few things to put minor tweaks on a Job that was said it was gonna be alterd over a year ago to make them more of what SE intended them for. it's been so long i forgot what interview it was from so sorry.



to those i offended in suggesting what i did. my apologies. i think Warrior is the DD tank. and PLD is the Defensive tank in the game. i just think, while close, failed a little short in making Warrior the DD tank it should be. that is where all this came from.

So uhh, just wondering. What the fuck would the point of a defensive tank be if you could have a tank that also does damage that is just as effective at tanking?

Also, I completely agree with BRP at the top of page 8, I'd love to have defense mean something and be important, but at this stage I think it'd be even more broken unless SE completely rewrites mob data and damage calculations. I like WoW's defense system a good bit, your armor is just a set amount of -damage% heavy armor is 50-60% and mage armor is 10-20%.

Honestly though, I think the real thing that kills bloodtanking is en- on mobs. Each sky god if not debuffed does damage that defense can't alter on every single melee attack. Pelican has enpetrify, BB has enterror, etc. Blood tanking would only work on those mobs if it worked more like every 10th attack would proc the effect and not just any random one.

[Lordender]

Am I an Allahtard for wishing Utsusemi was never the end all damage mitigation of the game and Defense was worth a damn? I wouldn't suggest it to be changed at this point of the game, but I wish from day one melees would have been able to hold their own with Defender and perhaps something unique to their job like Seigen like they would with Utsusemi. It annoys me that anything not Death or -aga is basically breathing time for NIN and /NIN, but it's come to the point that the game can't be flipped on it's back, so I guess it's not worth mentioning.

Totally agree, would like to see SE make defense and vit alot more stronger and completely recode how enmity works gaining it and losing it.

[shukuffxi]

Once you have solidified hate, it doesn't need to be as they wake up...but as was said curing to get on hate list, and then using bigger Cures + trying to space out your flash/voke, these are all ways to maintain a high hate level...on the first round of sleeps, if you voke just as a mob wakes you would probably get hate having done nothing else, if you voke as soon as it is slept its gonna hit the mage...just gotta space out your hate tools, so that you have some form of spike on first round of sleep by then you should have had enough time to build pretty solid hate. I guess its more of an art than a science, fortunately my PLDs are pretty good at it
And yes Kaekos method is by far the most efficient, although it takes a lot more chances and skill to pull off.

I guess it just works more for you, most of the time, i'm looking for anyone to cure, but our BRD are fairly competent at not getting hit, same with the BLM (Who I will Cure out of their Sorc. Ring macros if they're not actually nuking >_>) But more often than not as PLD/NIN I find myself lacking enough tools to generate hate on many mobs at once. It's only really nice when a BRD or BLM gets beat on, and I can Cure + JA, then the mobs all go for me on wake up, but it's more rare than anything else for that to happen. Basically in this case the difference is Flash + Shadows vs Flash + Voke, both are inadaquate on gaining hate on multiple mobs (read: 6+, not just 2 or somethin ) unless there is curing to be done, and you can JA.

I think BLU could work well in this regard (gathering hate on slept mobs) just pack on the enmity gear, and BLU have plenty of AoE moves that won't wake mobs, and Temporal Shift is made of win and has a solid amount of hate attached to it.

[riddaraan]

i used Ridill/Joy on Bahamut Round 2 zerk slept to 300% TP Steel Cyclone for 1809. then did Ridill/Joy with double haste, double accuracy and Haste song hits were doing around 50dmg per swing. i out parserd Mkris Darks there.



i left that LS due to the leader only allowing me to come WAR to Baha Round2. and BRD for everything else. so now i have no LS

I hate to say it, Caestus, but it honestly sounds like your real problem is that you're unwilling to adapt to fit the occasion. I'm sorry you feel frustrated with your problems, but perhaps being a little more willing to adapt is better for you. Every situation with Endgame will call for a different setup, or different style - or even a different job if you have it.

Thankfully, I'm too busy IRL to have taken the time to levelled an otherwise useful job. Homam jobs only, gooooooooooooo!

[Stolin]

I agree, BRP ftw.

[Caestus]

all i said was make WAR more desirable in situations (most) where they are not desirable at all.


sorry for ruffling all your pompous ass feathers. i stirred up something controversial and bam, get hated on. when even others who understand what i'm talking about said they are rather obsolete.

all of you from Alexander who seem to follow me around wherever i go. that's great. but if you make up lies and rumors about me, stop following me. there is no need for your pointless, made up flames.

The bottom line: i'm a Warrior who can tank anything in this game with success. (outside of AV) all i was trying to suggest was a few things to put minor tweaks on a Job that was said it was gonna be alterd over a year ago to make them more of what SE intended them for. it's been so long i forgot what interview it was from so sorry.



to those i offended in suggesting what i did. my apologies. i think Warrior is the DD tank. and PLD is the Defensive tank in the game. i just think, while close, failed a little short in making Warrior the DD tank it should be. that is where all this came from.

So uhh, just wondering. What the fuck would the point of a defensive tank be if you could have a tank that also does damage that is just as effective at tanking?

Also, I completely agree with BRP at the top of page 8, I'd love to have defense mean something and be important, but at this stage I think it'd be even more broken unless SE completely rewrites mob data and damage calculations. I like WoW's defense system a good bit, your armor is just a set amount of -damage% heavy armor is 50-60% and mage armor is 10-20%.

Honestly though, I think the real thing that kills bloodtanking is en- on mobs. Each sky god if not debuffed does damage that defense can't alter on every single melee attack. Pelican has enpetrify, BB has enterror, etc. Blood tanking would only work on those mobs if it worked more like every 10th attack would proc the effect and not just any random one.

The Style of the fight. Hydra. DD tank. Cerberus Defensive tank. we know how good Hydra's drops are tho.

any ways about RDM cure 4. i'm sure i can get it a little higher but generally it does 432. my friends WHM cure 4 does 475


I have no problems willing to Adapt to situations. i do, however, want to be able to tank on my WAR once in a while outside of EXP. i'll just try to find a LS that will let me do that. i was able to in Echelon on Aspi lol

i was told to come BRD to a Fafnir camp when we had TWO already. only ONE RDM and no WAR were there, but was 2 SAM and a THF. i coulda came RDM as i had offerd but they would not let me. still made me come BRD

[SephYuyX]

Never level a job that is more wanted than the job you like to play more. Leveling BRD pretty much screwed you of ever playing anything else more than once a year. Having NIN and RDM doesnt help much either.

[Kaziel]

ACTUALLY

WAR PLD and SAM were the tanks, you're pulling shit out of your ass, and it's mostly wrong.

If you can't hold hate on Fafnir as NIN unengaged you're doing it wrong...again.

Occam's (sp?) Razor suggests that the problem here is not that the jobs and situations need fixing, it's just that you're a poor player.

ACTUALLY
I went to last year's FanFest, and during one of the panels, something like this occured:

Fan, "Was SAM meant to be a tank?"
DevTeam, "No."

I swore I read some dev saying somewhere that SAM and NIN were originally intended to be offtanks in times of "Oh shit!", while WAR and PLD were intended to be _the_ real tanks.

Concerning their plans for NIN and WAR:

http://wiki.otakubooty.com/images/1/1e/142.jpg

[Stolin]

Never level a job that is more wanted than the job you like to play more. Leveling BRD pretty much screwed you of ever playing anything else more than once a year. Having NIN and RDM doesnt help much either.

Never-ever try to make yourself more useful to your LS, it may mildly alter the all the fun you're having.

[Caestus]

Never level a job that is more wanted than the job you like to play more. Leveling BRD pretty much screwed you of ever playing anything else more than once a year. Having NIN and RDM doesnt help much either.

i honestly enjoy RDM. i'd even wanna tank on RDM :D (lol >.>) but yea i enjoy RDM very much even spent a ton of gil to get it to be very acceptable. i leveld it this Summer but it's gear is still very good. i lack R/ex but i have all HQ i can get from the AH pretty much. even some sky Abj. this LS told me my RDM was useless that i had no merits.

when in actuallity i had 8/8 enfeebling, 5/5 ice 4/5 wind para 2 and slow 2. (same LS that told me to come BRD when there were 2 already) the leader woulda told me to come BRD to be the 4th one and there still would have been only 1 RDM there. i left for part of that reason, among others that do not need to be discussed here on this forum.

i guess it boils down to me not having luck finding the good LS that are willing to try different things outside the cookie cutter.

[Dian]

ACTUALLY

WAR PLD and SAM were the tanks, you're pulling shit out of your ass, and it's mostly wrong.

If you can't hold hate on Fafnir as NIN unengaged you're doing it wrong...again.

Occam's (sp?) Razor suggests that the problem here is not that the jobs and situations need fixing, it's just that you're a poor player.

a poor player -.-? anyone on Caitsith wanna let me tank for them on my WAR so i may show off some?


and Myrla i read what you say but i don't respond to it. cuz it's pointless, i pretty much ignore it. i'm just poor at presenting myself on a forum.sue me :/ people who take the time to get to know me and understand me don't have problems with me.

O M G

[Matrix]

Whoever said "it's not the job, it's you" - this applies to BCB a hell of a lot more than you realize.

[Caestus]

Whoever said "it's not the job, it's you" - this applies to BCB a hell of a lot more than you realize.

you have no idea what you are talking about Matrix.

[raevenx]

i used Ridill/Joy on Bahamut Round 2 zerk slept to 300% TP Steel Cyclone for 1809. then did Ridill/Joy with double haste, double accuracy and Haste song hits were doing around 50dmg per swing. i out parserd Mkris Darks there.



i left that LS due to the leader only allowing me to come WAR to Baha Round2. and BRD for everything else. so now i have no LS

Your B2's are alive long enough to switch weapons? Granted we only had 1 SAM at the last fight I attended and I did manage to get a few swings in after my first Steel Cyclone - they were doing 260+ dmg a swing (he's generally dead before MS wears). I have no doubt that your weapons were swinging faster but just the TP loss of switching weapons and the physical act of doing it during a 30 second fight just doesn't make good sense to me. But whatever works for you. I did pull out my 1 handed weapons when I was calling in Dynamis though, the lower delay made switching targets easier - that "you must wait longer to perform that action" message can be so annoying when your melee are demolishing things.

In any event, its probably good that you have left an LS that you aren't happy in. That is really your problem - not the WAR job. As many have stated WAR's are perfectly good tanks if you have a good support system and can melee them. I personally don't have a problem leaving the tanking to the other people on fights that you can't melee burn.

Part of what makes WAR great is the ability to tank AND contribute to damage at the same time. If you take the damage piece away by adding other hate buffs that don't rely on damage then you have done nothing but make them a PLD. That I think is what many others are trying to get through to you... that you aren't getting.

There are some fights in this game that it is just a plain bad strategy to use WAR. Tanking Fafnir where his TP moves aren't catastrophic is one thing. Throwing a WAR tank swinging away at Tiamat is just plain foolish (unless you like being in the LS that is getting roared to death but hey who am I to judge).

Raev

[Amele]

little late, was in class, but

Magic Cure Bonus ftw though, I never understood why WHM doesn't get this trait. It could scale up as they level just like MAB or MDB does. A WHM would cure for more than a RDM/WHM, who would then in turn cure for more than a RDM/BLM.

it's called cure potency and since WHM already has plenty of it it's clearly not the problem

Yes, because Cure Potency is clearly a job trait.

I see 11 WHM-equipable items on somepage with Cure Potency. 7 of them are weapons, 2 of them are bodies, one is a ring that nobody uses (to my knowledge), and one is salvage-only. So effectively 2 slots worth of equip in any normal situation. Oh, and only one of those slots is WHM exclusive. I'm not seeing how WHM has that much of an upper hand there.

you missed healing feather (15% iirc. but good luck winning that bc as a solo whitemage)

I use the ring; you can actually activate the latent full time like blm can with sorc using hp>mp gear; and whm ends up yellow pretty frequently if you can break other mages of the habit of curing you every time you get scratched.

I pretty much agree with you - I'd just rather see a straight mp recovery/efficiency improvement for all those times that a whitemage *isn't* casting cure spells (raises/regens/hastes/enfeebles etc) over more buffs to healing.

[Charla]

I do get to bring smn to Love and salvage runs, does that count? Oh, and I used whm the whole way through my CoP static, because the guy organizing it only had brd and bst leveled.