Hey SE

[Eaglestrike]

Never level a job that is more wanted than the job you like to play more. Leveling BRD pretty much screwed you of ever playing anything else more than once a year. Having NIN and RDM doesnt help much either.

Never-ever try to make yourself more useful to your LS, it may mildly alter the all the fun you're having.

Never level a job only be an LS tool and then bitch about being an LS tool.

[Caestus]

i macro'd my weapon switch just for that fight. and you only lose 15% TP right after Steel Cyclone. the fight lasted about 40 seconds.

[Stolin]

Never level a job that is more wanted than the job you like to play more. Leveling BRD pretty much screwed you of ever playing anything else more than once a year. Having NIN and RDM doesnt help much either.

Never-ever try to make yourself more useful to your LS, it may mildly alter the all the fun you're having.

Never level a job only be an LS tool and then bitch about being an LS tool.

Never cook alone, and never-ever use a knife

[Priran]

little late, was in class, but

Magic Cure Bonus ftw though, I never understood why WHM doesn't get this trait. It could scale up as they level just like MAB or MDB does. A WHM would cure for more than a RDM/WHM, who would then in turn cure for more than a RDM/BLM.

it's called cure potency and since WHM already has plenty of it it's clearly not the problem

Yes, because Cure Potency is clearly a job trait.

I see 11 WHM-equipable items on somepage with Cure Potency. 7 of them are weapons, 2 of them are bodies, one is a ring that nobody uses (to my knowledge), and one is salvage-only. So effectively 2 slots worth of equip in any normal situation. Oh, and only one of those slots is WHM exclusive. I'm not seeing how WHM has that much of an upper hand there.

first off, you're forgetting healing feather, which is both a third slot and a second WHM-exclusive. second, you forget obis. third, you're forgetting that no one would want to wear any of it except light staff.

WHMs can wear more cure potency than anyone else and still, they're not the best healers. WHMs can already heal both for more and more efficiently than RDMs, care to explain how adding a couple of points of healing to Cure III is going to fix anything?

As it's been pointed out, the solution isn't to make WHMs heal for more, it's to make them heal for longer.

[Caestus]

little late, was in class, but

Magic Cure Bonus ftw though, I never understood why WHM doesn't get this trait. It could scale up as they level just like MAB or MDB does. A WHM would cure for more than a RDM/WHM, who would then in turn cure for more than a RDM/BLM.

it's called cure potency and since WHM already has plenty of it it's clearly not the problem

Yes, because Cure Potency is clearly a job trait.

I see 11 WHM-equipable items on somepage with Cure Potency. 7 of them are weapons, 2 of them are bodies, one is a ring that nobody uses (to my knowledge), and one is salvage-only. So effectively 2 slots worth of equip in any normal situation. Oh, and only one of those slots is WHM exclusive. I'm not seeing how WHM has that much of an upper hand there.

first off, you're forgetting healing feather, which is both a third slot and a second WHM-exclusive. second, you forget obis. third, you're forgetting that no one would want to wear any of it except light staff.

WHMs can wear more cure potency than anyone else and still, they're not the best healers. WHMs can already heal both for more and more efficiently than RDMs, care to explain how adding a couple of points of healing to Cure III is going to fix anything?

As it's been pointed out, the solution isn't to make WHMs heal for more, it's to make them heal for longer.

i usually use Regen and Cure 3's and 5's when i play my friends WHM fully merited Regen and AF2 body is pretty seks. i think WHM is absolutly hands down the best healer out there. i suppose it could use some buffs tho. maybe a higher cap on Cure 3 for sure for WHM tho. 236 is cap without Divine seal right? 114 on Cure2 and 39 on Cure 1. correct? WHM should have thoes caps raised.

[Seraph]

first off, you're forgetting healing feather, which is both a third slot and a second WHM-exclusive. second, you forget obis. third, you're forgetting that no one would want to wear any of it except light staff.

WHMs can wear more cure potency than anyone else and still, they're not the best healers. WHMs can already heal both for more and more efficiently than RDMs, care to explain how adding a couple of points of healing to Cure III is going to fix anything?

As it's been pointed out, the solution isn't to make WHMs heal for more, it's to make them heal for longer.

There is also a WHM/PLD equipable club that has 10% cure potency, just is good as a light staff, and you can throw on a Genbu's Shield for a little defense..

So, make a job trait that acts like Conserve MP but only works on Cure spells. Even have it fire off 100% of the time. If you are worried about people subbing WHM and getting it, make it at level 40+. Maybe 5% at level 40, 10% at level 55, and 15% at level 70 or something. Cures still hitting hard like they should on a WHM, and MP lasting longer. Advantage is in the curing department, where WHM should excel over all others. There, I fixed WHM, where is my cookie?

[Amele]

your caps aren't even close to correct.

the 'soft caps' are at 30, 90, 190, 380(?) and uncapped.

the 'standard' unbuffed cures are 33 93 191 and 381 for most whitemages (some will be +/- a couple points here)

standard +20% is 39 112 234 457

I have gotten up to +60% before (needs more healing feather ; which is in the area of something dumb like, 308hp cure III's and cure IV's for 609+

I think the 'max' you can actually do is probably +82% assuming there isn't a potency cap somewhere. which is a cure III of about 348~.



Seraph: you totally missed the point priran and I are trying to make: it's not about the curing ability

that rdm and smn get used over whm in exp/assault/salvage/limbus/etc all the time should point out that the issue with whitemage isn't how 'good' it cures.

hell. half those events all you need to cast is regen III anyway - it's the hastes and raises and other misc. spells that eat your mp, combined with the amount of contortion a whitemage has to go through to do -anything- another healing job can do besides heal; especially when compared to how little (comparatively) those jobs have to go through to 'sufficiently' cover main healing.

[Lujei]

Seraph: you totally missed the point priran and I are trying to make: it's not about the curing ability

that rdm and smn get used over whm in exp/assault/salvage/limbus/etc all the time should point out that the issue with whitemage isn't how 'good' it cures.

hell. half those events all you need to cast is regen III anyway - it's the hastes and raises and other misc. spells that eat your mp, combined with the amount of contortion a whitemage has to go through to do -anything- another healing job can do besides heal; especially when compared to how little (comparatively) those jobs have to go through to 'sufficiently' cover main healing.

While not really well known for its healing ability, BLU also makes a nice healer. It can set Auto Refresh and Conserve MP traits naturally, as well as get higher levels of Clear Mind for when they are healing. Being a RDM, WHM, SMN, and BLU, the easiest main healing I've ever had was on BLU because of its lower MP costs (Cure III and IV for about 10 less MP than the normal spells) as well as not having to rely on subs for Auto-Refresh or Conserve MP. They also have the Curaga II level Healing Breeze for only 55 MP, which is less than the normal Curaga spell.

[Ryko]

How the hell is this topic 9 pages long lol

Edit: 10 <_>

[Seraph]

your caps aren't even close to correct.

the 'soft caps' are at 30, 90, 190, 380(?) and uncapped.

the 'standard' unbuffed cures are 33 93 191 and 381 for most whitemages (some will be +/- a couple points here)

standard +20% is 39 112 234 457

I have gotten up to +60% before (needs more healing feather ; which is in the area of something dumb like, 308hp cure III's and cure IV's for 609+

I think the 'max' you can actually do is probably +82% assuming there isn't a potency cap somewhere. which is a cure III of about 348~.



Seraph: you totally missed the point priran and I are trying to make: it's not about the curing ability

that rdm and smn get used over whm in exp/assault/salvage/limbus/etc all the time should point out that the issue with whitemage isn't how 'good' it cures.

hell. half those events all you need to cast is regen III anyway - it's the hastes and raises and other misc. spells that eat your mp, combined with the amount of contortion a whitemage has to go through to do -anything- another healing job can do besides heal; especially when compared to how little (comparatively) those jobs have to go through to 'sufficiently' cover main healing.

SO you want WHMs to not be flat out the best at healing, but be the best at..............................what exactly? Does this boil down to WHMs essentially wanting autorefresh of some sorts?

Besides boosting cure potency, reducing cure spell costs, boosting regen for WHMs in some way, or adding some form of autorefresh, I don't see how you can really add to the effectiveness of WHM without making it start becoming some other mage job. Either its about curing, or its about preventing damage. Maybe WHMs should have gotten Phalanx2 instead of RDMs. =P

[Alleya]

Arguing curing as a function of purely mp-to-cure ratio and mp recovery is ignoring the deeper element that is intrinsic with whm. Specifically hate management (a whm is able to wear a LOT more -enmity than a rdm/whm) and access to the sheer sex that is regen 3. Simple fact is: rdm/whm can be a good healer, but they have a lot of other shit they need to be doing. You know. Red mage stuff. A white mage can focus fully on keeping people healed. In a game where anything worth killing can take half your HP in one hit, that's very important.

I think white mage is one of the few jobs in the game that is completely balanced and shouldn't be changed at all. After divine veil and the changes to bene, I would call it 100% perfect.

[Izzy]

your caps aren't even close to correct.

the 'soft caps' are at 30, 90, 190, 380(?) and uncapped.

the 'standard' unbuffed cures are 33 93 191 and 381 for most whitemages (some will be +/- a couple points here)

standard +20% is 39 112 234 457

I have gotten up to +60% before (needs more healing feather ; which is in the area of something dumb like, 308hp cure III's and cure IV's for 609+

I think the 'max' you can actually do is probably +82% assuming there isn't a potency cap somewhere. which is a cure III of about 348~.



Seraph: you totally missed the point priran and I are trying to make: it's not about the curing ability

that rdm and smn get used over whm in exp/assault/salvage/limbus/etc all the time should point out that the issue with whitemage isn't how 'good' it cures.

hell. half those events all you need to cast is regen III anyway - it's the hastes and raises and other misc. spells that eat your mp, combined with the amount of contortion a whitemage has to go through to do -anything- another healing job can do besides heal; especially when compared to how little (comparatively) those jobs have to go through to 'sufficiently' cover main healing.

SO you want WHMs to not be flat out the best at healing, but be the best at..............................what exactly? Does this boil down to WHMs essentially wanting autorefresh of some sorts?

Besides boosting cure potency, reducing cure spell costs, boosting regen for WHMs in some way, or adding some form of autorefresh, I don't see how you can really add to the effectiveness of WHM without making it start becoming some other mage job. Either its about curing, or its about preventing damage. Maybe WHMs should have gotten Phalanx2 instead of RDMs. =P

*Directs you to my sig* !!!!!!!!!

[KimimaroKun]

In short :

Give WHM a ability / job trait that allows them to utilize their MP better. Like a very potent version of Conserve MP, or perhaps making certain spells cost less MP to cast on WHM? I think that would help WHM out alot.

Square Enix Doesn't Care About "white mage's"

[Seraph]

your caps aren't even close to correct.

the 'soft caps' are at 30, 90, 190, 380(?) and uncapped.

the 'standard' unbuffed cures are 33 93 191 and 381 for most whitemages (some will be +/- a couple points here)

standard +20% is 39 112 234 457

I have gotten up to +60% before (needs more healing feather ; which is in the area of something dumb like, 308hp cure III's and cure IV's for 609+

I think the 'max' you can actually do is probably +82% assuming there isn't a potency cap somewhere. which is a cure III of about 348~.



Seraph: you totally missed the point priran and I are trying to make: it's not about the curing ability

that rdm and smn get used over whm in exp/assault/salvage/limbus/etc all the time should point out that the issue with whitemage isn't how 'good' it cures.

hell. half those events all you need to cast is regen III anyway - it's the hastes and raises and other misc. spells that eat your mp, combined with the amount of contortion a whitemage has to go through to do -anything- another healing job can do besides heal; especially when compared to how little (comparatively) those jobs have to go through to 'sufficiently' cover main healing.

SO you want WHMs to not be flat out the best at healing, but be the best at..............................what exactly? Does this boil down to WHMs essentially wanting autorefresh of some sorts?

Besides boosting cure potency, reducing cure spell costs, boosting regen for WHMs in some way, or adding some form of autorefresh, I don't see how you can really add to the effectiveness of WHM without making it start becoming some other mage job. Either its about curing, or its about preventing damage. Maybe WHMs should have gotten Phalanx2 instead of RDMs. =P

*Directs you to my sig* !!!!!!!!!

Respectable damage doesn't make you the best. (Making WHM into a melee job doesnt make WHM "better" or more desired, just different...) I'm just trying to rationalize the HOLY CRAP MY JOB NEEDS THIS AND IT COMPLETELY MAKES NO SENSE BUT I STILL WANT IT, THEY GET IT, WHY CAN'T I???????111!!!?? posts I keep seeing.

[Stolin]

Arguing curing as a function of purely mp-to-cure ratio and mp recovery is ignoring the deeper element that is intrinsic with whm. Specifically hate management (a whm is able to wear a LOT more -enmity than a rdm/whm) and access to the sheer sex that is regen 3. Simple fact is: rdm/whm can be a good healer, but they have a lot of other shit they need to be doing. You know. Red mage stuff. A white mage can focus fully on keeping people healed. In a game where anything worth killing can take half your HP in one hit, that's very important.

I think white mage is one of the few jobs in the game that is completely balanced and shouldn't be changed at all. After divine veil and the changes to bene, I would call it 100% perfect.

WHM just doesn't have the role diversity RDM has. An RDM can potentially be any 3 of 4 essential roles, healer/support/tank, you need to have at most hard fights. RDM has insane solo abilities as well. Its not so much that WHM is too weak honestly, its just that RDM is so damn strong. I take pride in my white mage, but super mp efficiency won't out-weigh everything RDM brings to the table.

I think white mage's only saving grace is the added MDB it brings to the party. There are a lot of fights where you can never have enough of the stuff.

[Caestus]

your standard +20% caps seem wrong outside of the cure 1.... 39 cure 1 seems locked from what i can tell...


but i'm very posative 114 is cure2 cap and 236 is cure 3 cap. (right now i'm willing to wager i can raise it some more)

proof? well take this for now i'll set up more solid proof later.
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8965/curefh1.th.png
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/6141/cure2sc7.th.png

take that for now

and i'm sorry i didn't specifiy. the caps i had stated were +30%

[Amele]

Simple fact is: rdm/whm can be a good healer, but they have a lot of other shit they need to be doing. You know. Red mage stuff. A white mage can focus fully on keeping people healed. In a game where anything worth killing can take half your HP in one hit, that's very important.

I think white mage is one of the few jobs in the game that is completely balanced and shouldn't be changed at all. After divine veil and the changes to bene, I would call it 100% perfect.

right. but the -second- redmage doesn't need to do redmage stuff; but still can if something goes wrong. whitemage gets the 'luxury' of focusing purely on keeping people healed because it struggles to do anything else. 2 whitemages is almost always redundant. 2 redmages is generally not.

this is pretty much the extent of my point:

in 95% of situations a rdm/whm or a blu/whm is a 'sufficient' substitute for a whitemage.

in 95% of situations, a whm/x is -not- a sufficient substitute for a rdm or blu. (or any other job besides off the wall stuff like pld/whm really)

so, since you only 'need' a whitemage when you need MDB and barspells. (the 5% of situations where whitemage is indispensable) then what incentive is there to use a whitemage over an alternate healer, ignoring personal playstyle/preference?

I picked whm. I'm still playing whitemage. I use it alot. it's a good job when you need the traits unique to whitemage. it's a fine job in a vaccuum. whitemage still lives in redmage's shadow. (and to a lesser extent, blu's)


I'm satisfied with where whitemage is on a curing standpoint. I would even give some of it away (hell. remove Cure V and protect V from the game.) whitemage needs to be sufficiently good at *something* else too.

and no. I don't mean melee although I would cheer izzy on if we got an A skill club.

every other mage job is good for (and capable of doing simultaneously) at least two things. except whitemage.
the primary reason for this is endurance.


edit!: @caestus; yeah - they're gonna go up or down a couple points - my cure III cap is 235 for instance.

and I've hit cure I 40 when stacking a ton of mind too (but you need enough to get to 34 before potency) it sounds like you just use enough mind to get +2 on the base soft caps over what I listed as 'standard'.

[spooky]

WHM just needs to be able to cure MP too, ta-da all our problems are solved.

[Stolin]

we need a WS that hits 54 times

[spooky]

we need a WS that hits 54 times

Doesn't Hexa Strike + KC do that already?