Hey SE

[RKenshin]

ITT: Job/SJ wars.

[NynJa]

A good WHM's mp pool should be around, say, 1500mp.

max mp wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwwwwwwwwwwwww

[Lordwafik]

And another thing if you're listening.

What genius on your dev team decided that skillchaining was worth shit all in ToAU.

Fire that retard, please. Make him a homeless bum.

Then fix that shit in WotG.

I mean for meripo etc, it still serves purpose elsewhere.. just tired of {Light} {Darkness} hitting mobs for 50 damage after a 1k WS.

No, I want to give that man a promotion. He made melee exp fun.

Btw, it's not only ToaU that are TP burnable, forgot about Ulegard already? Or even sky?

[Amele]

And as far as standard merit parties at Colibri Camp go, if I'm asked to pick between a WHM (with nobles tunic and /SMN) and a RDM (without A.Body or AF2 Hat), I'd pick the WHM. [...]

To be honest, I think most WHM have problems out-lasting RDMs simply because they fail to grasp the concept of both how to be efficient on MP and to choose the right sub.

/cue "I like the Auto-Refresh and more max MP" WHM/SMN.

Yeah, those 20MP/minute are gonna make a difference.

Every little bit counts, and its not as if Conserve MP will save you nearly that much.

*if you're casting hard enough for conserve mp to save you more than 20mp/min, the whm/blm will last longer in continuous casting. (adjusted slightly for relative mp starting levels)

the whm/smn will recover mp faster.

if you aren't casting that hard, then the whm/smn regains faster.

as ciarin pointed out - the real argument should be: "how often and for how long can whitemage actually cast that fast?"

so I guess it's time for me to write up an mp consumption app and find out!
(I have both, I prefer whm/blm primarily for utility spells, I'm mostly just curious at this point.)

it's easy to come up with situations where you're using an excess of mp/min (3 person haste/regen cycle is already something like 216mp/min) but like ciarin said, actually casting at nearly 300mp/min rapidly depletes your mp pool unless you find time to rest (which may or may not happen in a merit party or event.)

[RKenshin]

You're all forgetting the power of WHM/DRG. Tank PT WHM that never has to log because they can High Jump for hate reduction.

(if someone from SE reads this please realize that was 110% sarcasm)

[Epical]

Ruke you aren't allowed to joke... whatever you say is taken like it's straight out of the Bible.

[fantasticdan]

And another thing if you're listening.

What genius on your dev team decided that skillchaining was worth shit all in ToAU.

Fire that retard, please. Make him a homeless bum.

Then fix that shit in WotG.

I mean for meripo etc, it still serves purpose elsewhere.. just tired of {Light} {Darkness} hitting mobs for 50 damage after a 1k WS.

No, I want to give that man a promotion. He made melee exp fun.

Btw, it's not only ToaU that are TP burnable, forgot about Ulegard already? Or even sky?

Regardless of mobs TP burn-abilitiy, SC acc needs a fix, especially when using appropriate element against mobs weakness. For example, 25% or below distortion acc on a vt-- mob weak to ice (colibri), is retarded. It has nothing to do with ToAU thou, SC acc against nearly all t/vt/it mobs is like this.

[Rai]

Yeah, statistical math is awesome but just because you must use 280MP/minute to make Conserve MP worthwhile over Auto-Refresh on the paper doesn't mean it's the same in reality. Especially since activation rate is based on how many spells you cast and MP cost only indirectly effects efficiency. This is why I'm surprised people throw around that "you must cast 280 MP per minute" term ... I wanna bet if I cast two spells worth that MP value per minute I most likely won't reach Auto-Regen unless I get lucky.
So yes ... if you stand around and do nothing, Auto-Regen > Conserve MP. Now start casting a bunch of spells ... hastes, cures, status cures, barspells ... and suddenly it's quite likely that you'll easily save more MP than Auto-Refresh will ever manage to give you back. One 50% reduction on Cure V and you don't even have to cast anything for the next 3 minutes to beat Auto-Refresh.

Anyhow ... all that wasn't even the point in my first post. I could care less what WHMs in my LS or anywhere else sub as long as they get the job done. My point was that WHM doesn't need to be "fixed" in regards to MP stamina unlike some people pointed out.

[RKenshin]

Ruke you aren't allowed to joke... whatever you say is taken like it's straight out of the Bible.

[Amele]

Yeah, statistical math is awesome but just because you must use 280MP/minute to make Conserve MP worthwhile over Auto-Refresh on the paper doesn't mean it's the same in reality. Especially since activation rate is based on how many spells you cast and MP cost only indirectly effects efficiency. This is why I'm surprised people throw around that "you must cast 280 MP per minute" term ... I wanna bet if I cast two spells worth that MP value per minute I most likely won't reach Auto-Regen unless I get lucky.

actually, it's statistical math that says it *doesn't* matter (averaged out over time).

so I wouldn't take that bet if I were you, unless you specified a (relatively brief) interval.

My point was that WHM doesn't need to be "fixed" in regards to MP stamina unlike some people pointed out.

how about how every other job with mp (and two that don't even have mp) have better mp conservation/recovery traits/abilities than whitemage; and that several of these jobs are (generally speaking) considered better healers except in endgame alliance events, and sometimes even there?

[Gregorio]

This might be a narb question...but if you're WHM/BLM do the clear mind traits stack, or is it the highest trait takes priority?

I guess it's easy enough to test but I've never bothered and I'm not on right now.

[arus2001]

Is it possible there's some kind of weird-ass correlation between SC output and the closer's Elemental skill? I'm not versed on SMN and Rolling Thunder, but I've heard it generally sucks because the people receiving it typically don't have their own Enhancing Magic skill (and enspells are fruity enough as is on anything of difficulty). Otherwise, I'm aware of the SC step progression in increasing the potential output and maybe lowering resist rates. I guess when I start breaking Subduer on my DRK I'll not use swaps and see if there's any kind of frequency in resists. Though, I'll need to find someone bored to run around with my SAM for a counter-test against similar mobs.

[Amele]

This might be a narb question...but if you're WHM/BLM do the clear mind traits stack, or is it the highest trait takes priority?

I guess it's easy enough to test but I've never bothered and I'm not on right now.

naw. they don't stack. highest trait takes priority. (I just did the test myself to be sure)

[Plow]

And another thing if you're listening.

What genius on your dev team decided that skillchaining was worth shit all in ToAU.

Fire that retard, please. Make him a homeless bum.

Then fix that shit in WotG.

I mean for meripo etc, it still serves purpose elsewhere.. just tired of {Light} {Darkness} hitting mobs for 50 damage after a 1k WS.

No, I want to give that man a promotion. He made melee exp fun.

Btw, it's not only ToaU that are TP burnable, forgot about Ulegard already? Or even sky?

Regardless of mobs TP burn-abilitiy, SC acc needs a fix, especially when using appropriate element against mobs weakness. For example, 25% or below distortion acc on a vt-- mob weak to ice (colibri), is retarded. It has nothing to do with ToAU thou, SC acc against nearly all t/vt/it mobs is like this.

QFT on this shit man. Don't get me wrong I love melee burn. But what the fuck seriously I mean, I remember when I first got Cross Reaper, literally dropping crawlers in tree from 90% with 1300+ sata CR + 1300+ darkness. Now I'll like see a grav chain go and hit a cross reaper for 3 part dark which should do 150% dmg and instead I get like... 150 dmg.



About the whm thing:

Am I the only one sitting here going "Man at a time when probably 60-70% of exp parties are melee burn *WITHOUT* people using nin sub, how the hell are people having an argument about whm/smn vs whm/blm without a single mention of aerial armor?" Sure it doesn't stack with Seigan but getting away with using hasso a lot of the time can make a dramatic shift in the exp/hr.

[Lordwafik]

Am I the only one sitting here going "Man at a time when probably 60-70% of exp parties are melee burn *WITHOUT* people using nin sub, how the hell are people having an argument about whm/smn vs whm/blm without a single mention of aerial armor?" Sure it doesn't stack with Seigan but getting away with using hasso a lot of the time can make a dramatic shift in the exp/hr.

I'd say more 20-30%. 70%? No way.

[Priran]

how the hell are people having an argument about whm/smn vs whm/blm without a single mention of aerial armor?" Sure it doesn't stack with Seigan but getting away with using hasso a lot of the time can make a dramatic shift in the exp/hr.

I played SAM to like 50 and getting Seiganblocked by AA was probably one of the most fucking annoying things I have ever seen.

[Ashira]

how the hell are people having an argument about whm/smn vs whm/blm without a single mention of aerial armor?" Sure it doesn't stack with Seigan but getting away with using hasso a lot of the time can make a dramatic shift in the exp/hr.

I played SAM to like 50 and getting Seiganblocked by AA was probably one of the most fucking annoying things I have ever seen.

God I hated it when that happened.

[Zalius]

Ruke you aren't allowed to joke... whatever you say is taken like it's straight out of the Bible.

QUITE COINCIDENTALLY, YOU UPDATE YOUR LJ AS FREQUENTLY AS THE BIBLE

[Plow]

Am I the only one sitting here going "Man at a time when probably 60-70% of exp parties are melee burn *WITHOUT* people using nin sub, how the hell are people having an argument about whm/smn vs whm/blm without a single mention of aerial armor?" Sure it doesn't stack with Seigan but getting away with using hasso a lot of the time can make a dramatic shift in the exp/hr.

I'd say more 20-30%. 70%? No way.

I honestly haven't been meriting much lately since I'm leveling nin, but the last 2-3 meripo pt I've had have had 1 or 2 people with utsusemi, and 2 of em were nins. And just from observing, most of what I've seen have been pt full of drg/sam war/sam drk/sam etc.

Of course, you have to keep in mind that Sylph not only has an endgame situation where even the most drama-free ls's don't really get along or cooperate with any others. We also have 2 jp ls that have absolutely dominated kings the entire time, limiting pretty much all ridills other than like 1-2 to them or the NA that suck their dicks, and only recently have other ls started to get ebodys and stuff. Sylph NA exp pt, for the most part, are pretty much axe/axe wars, mnks that may or may not have bb, nins, and 2hers. I don't think i've ever seen something like 2x ebody ridill wars + bb mnk + 2brd + rdm, like... ever. Not that it's never happened, you just don't see it around here unless you go out looking for it, or are one of the people that has them.

Also it's not particularly hard to keep hasso up until AA wears... If I can constantly be changing gear sets while turning hasso off and on for absorbTP as well as using seigan as necessary, I'd like to think sams, wars, drgs and whatnot can pay a little damn attention to what buffs they have up when too.

[RKenshin]

Ruke you aren't allowed to joke... whatever you say is taken like it's straight out of the Bible.

QUITE COINCIDENTALLY, YOU UPDATE YOUR LJ AS FREQUENTLY AS THE BIBLE

BS