Hey SE

[Ciaran]

perhaps overstated then; I wasn't aware that the range on fruit had been cut down.

better mp and better efficiency cures mostly was where I was coming from - enough that blu can realistically main heal if need be, + still do some DD in the process.

which is more than whitemage can claim really (although as you made clearer to me; blu doesn't do as good a job alliance healing)

You must not have seen a WHM/DRK in Xarc. 1k Hexastrike go!

[Tajin]

way late but:

1.- Cape Teriggan was fixed, you cant delevel there anymore.
2.- So /SMN now is considered gimp? (not that i use /SMN religiously anyway, hell i did WHM1-75 /BLM)

To the guy who said that "he checks if a melee needs haste or not", if you are not (trying to) keep a haste cycle, then something is very wrong with the party if your MP is being drain somewhere else.

[NynJa]

the way I see it, most parties these days go:
4x melee, brd/cor, healer
or
3x melee, brd/cor x2, healer

No matter how you decide to slice the pie: Refresh and Covert excel over Regen 3 and greater hMP.

[Charla]

Right, for merits.

Everyone under 70 gets stuck with the good old:
tank, healer, brd/rdm, 3x whatever else you can find

[NynJa]

too bad merits can be done at an infinite cycle
when youre xping below 70, you're eventually going to hit merit mode.....unless of course you xp in cop lvl cap areas.

[Priran]

Magic fruit used to have crazy range but this has been nerfed.

You mean it now gets interrupted if the target runs out of range, like a normal spell?

[Tajin]

Hey SE:

will you ban all the fuckers in a certain list that was put up in them internet tubes?


P.S. I'm not hating, hell i dont do timed pop NMs, but there is never enough lulz <_<

[MaachaQ]

Hey SE:

will you ban all the fuckers in a certain list that was put up in them internet tubes?

Yes, please do. And while you're at it, make HNMs forced pop somehow to kill off theother botting programs we don't have a list for.

It's not just about the gear from kings, it's the douche-baggery that in involved with them as well. Check out this gem from my server recently:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n.../Alexandra.png

http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.asp...opicID=5713982

[Ciaran]

the way I see it, most parties these days go:
4x melee, brd/cor, healer
or
3x melee, brd/cor x2, healer

No matter how you decide to slice the pie: Refresh and Covert excel over Regen 3 and greater hMP.

Tell that to my friend who, having both RDM and WHM, prefers WHM at Bird Camp over RDM. Her WHM excels over her RDM, both being very well equipped. So, umm, what slice of the pie is that?

And unless the RDM in question has Dalmatica and/or AF2 hat, the MP regen a RDM gets from Refresh alone is negligible at best. Refresh gives 150mp, costs 40, and lasts for 50 tics. Net gain is 110mp, over 50 tics, for about a 2.2mp per tic gain. WHM can achieve a static 2mp per tic gain through /SMN and Nobles Tunic, meaning the RDM will get 10 mp over a WHM every 50 tics, or 4mp per minute over a WHM. Hardly groundbreaking, especially considering the WHM will save that much or more mp just by being a WHM and requiring fewer cures. Did you even read my earlier post where I did this math?

So, what you mean to say is, Convert > Regen 3 and greater Cure Efficiency, because, who rests in a merit party? hMP isn't important. And yeah, Convert is good, if me and my friend were meriting, I'd still take her WHM over her RDM. Because I've merited with her WHM for 2+ hours, and never had to stop for her to rest. Rarely had issues with death, and the exp party is easier on her WHM at colibri camp than it is on her RDM. The only thing RDM has over a WHM is, at camps like North Camp, they can Silence/Dispel.

[NynJa]

the way I see it, most parties these days go:
4x melee, brd/cor, healer
or
3x melee, brd/cor x2, healer

No matter how you decide to slice the pie: Refresh and Covert excel over Regen 3 and greater hMP.

Tell that to my friend who, having both RDM and WHM, prefers WHM at Bird Camp over RDM. Her WHM excels over her RDM, both being very well equipped. So, umm, what slice of the pie is that?

And unless the RDM in question has Dalmatica and/or AF2 hat, the MP regen a RDM gets from Refresh alone is negligible at best. Refresh gives 150mp, costs 40, and lasts for 50 tics. Net gain is 110mp, over 50 tics, for about a 2.2mp per tic gain. WHM can achieve a static 2mp per tic gain through /SMN and Nobles Tunic, meaning the RDM will get 10 mp over a WHM every 50 tics, or 4mp per minute over a WHM. Hardly groundbreaking, especially considering the WHM will save that much or more mp just by being a WHM and requiring fewer cures. Did you even read my earlier post where I did this math?

So, what you mean to say is, Convert > Regen 3 and greater Cure Efficiency, because, who rests in a merit party? hMP isn't important. And yeah, Convert is good, if me and my friend were meriting, I'd still take her WHM over her RDM. Because I've merited with her WHM for 2+ hours, and never had to stop for her to rest. Rarely had issues with death, and the exp party is easier on her WHM at colibri camp than it is on her RDM. The only thing RDM has over a WHM is, at camps like North Camp, they can Silence/Dispel.

ok, and the rdm can sub blm for conserve mp, whereas the whm in your statement is /smn.

WHATS THE POINT VENTURA ??!

[Ciaran]

Any RDM who subs BLM to be main healer is an idiot. Curaga, Divine Seal, etc. are all utility spells which are very useful whenever you just want to do a blanket cure. Auto Regen also helps to bring your HP back up to full after converts, without needing 2 Cure IV's. /WHM especially needed for Erase, since some groups like killing Wivres for shits and giggles inbetween Colibri, or because there's nothing left because they cleared the zone too fast.

And before you start with "Oh but a BRD/WHM can Erase!" Yeah, they can, but if you rely on one erase, you'll likely lose chain. This is, also, assuming you aren't using your 4x Melee BRD/COR Healer party, where the BRD is most likely to go /NIN.

Next time please think out your rebuttal first.

[Tricen]

Why does Nidhogg have a 2hr and KB/Aspid don't :/

[Amele]

Any RDM who subs BLM to be main healer is an idiot. Curaga, Divine Seal, etc. are all utility spells which are very useful whenever you just want to do a blanket cure. Auto Regen also helps to bring your HP back up to full after converts, without needing 2 Cure IV's. /WHM especially needed for Erase, since some groups like killing Wivres for shits and giggles inbetween Colibri, or because there's nothing left because they cleared the zone too fast.

And before you start with "Oh but a BRD/WHM can Erase!" Yeah, they can, but if you rely on one erase, you'll likely lose chain. This is, also, assuming you aren't using your 4x Melee BRD/COR Healer party, where the BRD is most likely to go /NIN.

Next time please think out your rebuttal first.

fine, here: at best (using only regen III and curaga on 4 people) a typical whitemage will have ~30% less mp expended on healing (ignoring that the bulk of mp spent in a merit party is on haste) with equivalent mp spent on haste/erase/enfeebling/etc

(max mp on rdm/whm of only 800, sanction refresh. no refresh gear for rdm, no convert recast merits)
3 mp/tic versus 3.2 + 4(800/10 minutes) = ~240% more mp for redmage to throw around.

so whitemage is up ~30% efficiency on cures (assuming the redmage sticks to the typical cure III/IV and not curaga's himself) but is down 240% (or more) in available mp to spend - and can't sleep or dispel, and will likely struggle with any other enfeebles (unless they put together a good set of enfeebling gear, but at that point we have to credit the rdm with a good convert set and he just pulls farther ahead in mp)

[Meropi]

To the guy who said that "he checks if a melee needs haste or not", if you are not (trying to) keep a haste cycle, then something is very wrong with the party if your MP is being drain somewhere else.

I never said I don't keep a haste cycle... I said if I don't have the MP for haste at that second, you're not getting it. Sometimes things like Firespit > Rushing Stab happen and Haste isn't exactly a priority in that case.

But meh.

[Lordender]

I really hope SE does something for blu, there is just little to no reason to invite them to high level exp anymore when 2h'ers running around pwning everything.

[Charla]

I really hope SE does something for blu, pld, rng, lolpup, etc., there is just little to no reason to invite them to high level exp anymore when 2h'ers running around pwning everything.

fixed. Don't want to forget the other jobs that don't get meleeburn invites.

[Ciaran]

I really hope SE does something for blu, pld, rng, thf, lolpup, etc., there is just little to no reason to invite them to high level exp anymore when 2h'ers running around pwning everything.

fixed. Don't want to forget the other jobs that don't get meleeburn invites.

You forgot THF!

[Aymee]

You forgot THF!

I feel so, so so so sorry for THFs at present. Despite essentially every other job getting major enhancements/upgrades/new lovely gear of some sort over the last, hm... 3 years... THF has gotten, um... *thinks* ... ... uh... that one patch ages ago that raised dmg on daggers!?!

The only times I ever see THF in merit PTs is a psychotically decked ridill THF. Or they're in the PT because they either made it or a friend made it. The 'average' THF or even a fairly well-equipped THF? Doomed. Dooooooomed. 99% of the time I see a THF doing an activity that results in +exp, it's sky farming. THF you trust to exp? Fine. Random THF seeking? My eyes just glaze over it.

SE helped fix lawlDRG and DRK, made SAM ...better, and gave WAR even more options... MNK and NIN still have their insane speed... help THF already, please. They're the migrant workers of DDs... great work ethic but only placed in the lowest of the low slots (for TH and nothing more) and taken only when no one else can be found for the position. My first idea for THF is a 'Dagger Specialty' trait (lvl40 maybe), like Martial Arts, just to up their DoT later on. I mean, they're given no mainhand weapon choice besides dagger. It's effect might be to change 1str>1attk with dagger mainhand like the 2-handed weapon change. THF desperately needs attack.
Making 2hr not suck would be a nice bonus... say maybe... let it place all other JAs on a 0 timer so they can at least pull off ONE strong WS. Something else like letting it shed hate or giving instant flee would be cute, too. Better yet, all of the above. None of that would be broken and it still probably wouldn't put them up to par with other melee =\

I must disagree with people that say BLUs are out of place as well... it's just that good BLUs are incredibly hard to find. You can argue that good THFs are hard to find too (and I'd agree), but BLUs virtues of mob insta-kill with the main 3 multi-hit physical spells, variety in subs and ability to main heal with magic fruit in a lot of cases all put it far ahead of THF in terms of desirability.

[Plow]

You forgot THF!

I feel so, so so so sorry for THFs at present. Despite essentially every other job getting major enhancements/upgrades/new lovely gear of some sort over the last, hm... 3 years... THF has gotten, um... *thinks* ... ... uh... that one patch ages ago that raised dmg on daggers!?!

The only times I ever see THF in merit PTs is a psychotically decked ridill THF. Or they're in the PT because they either made it or a friend made it. The 'average' THF or even a fairly well-equipped THF? Doomed. Dooooooomed. 99% of the time I see a THF doing an activity that results in +exp, it's sky farming. THF you trust to exp? Fine. Random THF seeking? My eyes just glaze over it.

SE helped fix lawlDRG and DRK, made SAM ...better, and gave WAR even more options... MNK and NIN still have their insane speed... help THF already, please. They're the migrant workers of DDs... great work ethic but only placed in the lowest of the low slots (for TH and nothing more) and taken only when no one else can be found for the position. My first idea for THF is a 'Dagger Specialty' trait (lvl40 maybe), like Martial Arts, just to up their DoT later on. I mean, they're given no mainhand weapon choice besides dagger. It's effect might be to change 1str>1attk with dagger mainhand like the 2-handed weapon change. THF desperately needs attack.
Making 2hr not suck would be a nice bonus... say maybe... let it place all other JAs on a 0 timer so they can at least pull off ONE strong WS. Something else like letting it shed hate or giving instant flee would be cute, too. Better yet, all of the above. None of that would be broken and it still probably wouldn't put them up to par with other melee =\

I must disagree with people that say BLUs are out of place as well... it's just that good BLUs are incredibly hard to find. You can argue that good THFs are hard to find too (and I'd agree), but BLUs virtues of mob insta-kill with the main 3 multi-hit physical spells, variety in subs and ability to main heal with magic fruit in a lot of cases all put it far ahead of THF in terms of desirability.

Are all the thf on garuda terrible or what?

You realize thief have a dmg bonus on like 80% of merit mobs now?

And ridill thf? You can't be serious...

[KimimaroKun]

I really hope SE does something for blu, there is just little to no reason to invite them to high level exp anymore when 2h'ers running around pwning everything.

WTF?! BLU is not only overpowered it's fucking awesome. I invite them to merit PT's all the time (The good ones) on my WAR and they do excellent. And for gods sake, they are so powerful they can solo pretty decent merits on imps. What the fuck more do you want? Spike flail? Just because you suck at BLU doesn't mean BLU sucks. They are stupidly powerful in just about everything.

THF and PUP are the only real jobs getting the short end of the stick but even then a GOOD THF on Birds can do pretty well. PUP... Well it just fucking sucks... PLD you can get good exp on but you aren't going to get into a WAR burn for 20k a hour on it. Getting 10-15k a hour on PLD isn't hard though, and if you are smart you'll even have fun doing so. RNG needs some buffs, for gods sake they just need to un-nerf RNG and put it back how it was long ago. It was always MEANT to be extreemly powerful, yet now it's probably the weakest job you can invite to a TP burn other than PUP. And you know what job REALLY needs fixing? BLM, do I even need to say why? Some one go try to level it past 55, if you get it to 75 and understand what i'm talking about, i'll give you a fucking cookie.