Hey SE

[Caestus]

i would honestly preffer to be a Career Warrior. but i've never had a LS that told me to come WAR always.

so... are you all telling me you would preffer to have a Warrior DD any HNM over SAM and DRK?

i KNOW War has awsome DD potential. i'm full of e-peen. Warrior can tank. but can you honestly tell me it's desierable? i mean seriously.



maybe i'm just peeved because i've never found a situation that HNM shells allow me to tank. instead i get made fun of and insulted for wanting to DD on WAR or tank on WAR. when i've proven in the past i was more than capable.

and ty Ryko seems you understand here.

[wintersquall]

who doesn't put parmesan cheese on pizza?

seriously wtf is wrong with you people.

[Seraph]

i would honestly preffer to be a Career Warrior. but i've never had a LS that told me to come WAR always.

so... are you all telling me you would preffer to have a Warrior DD any HNM over SAM and DRK?

i KNOW War has awsome DD potential. i'm full of e-peen. Warrior can tank. but can you honestly tell me it's desierable? i mean seriously.



maybe i'm just peeved because i've never found a situation that HNM shells allow me to tank. instead i get made fun of and insulted for wanting to DD on WAR or tank on WAR. when i've proven in the past i was more than capable.

Instead of halfassing it on WAR, you could level PLD and compete with those other LS tanks you seem to despise so very much.

[Sidanoir]

perhaps you are missing my point.

rather than be a dick about it let me try and rephrase.


As it is now. Warrior can tank. It is however, not prefferd over PLD, NIN, and even RDM.

what i think would help Warrior become the tank they are capeable of is giving them Similar abilities as a PLD. and what would seperate PLD from WAR preferance is the ability to Cure on PLD. Flash etc etc.

there is a Defender 2 .dat file in FFXI. it's something that could be implimented into Warrior. you could even enhance Provoke to have a -% damage reduction for 10 seconds or something. just little things. While i do Understand PLD is Tank onry. Warrior is a jack of all trades. and master of none. it's more desierable to have a SAM or DRK in an alliance over a Warrior. and it's more desierable to have a PLD, NIN, or RDM tank over a Warrior.

see what i'm getting at?

That's the fucking point.

And to the "WARs are not preferred over NINs and PLDs", there are many shells that use WARs as their main tanks in Dynamis just due to zerg style fighting doesn't take major amounts of shadows and/or self curing.

Dynamis is nothing and can be won with 6. (aside from Beaucedine and Xarcabard)

things like Tiamat, Vrtra, Khimaria and Cerberus. how often do you see WAR tanking them? i've main tanked on WAR. you need good support as with any job. but it's obvious the above are PLD prefferd mobs. most LS (not all) would never let a WAR tank anything. Dynamis included. it's just bothersome to me.


i'm a Warrior who would absolutly love to tank anything in this game. but i've only been allowed to tank Fafnir. and i was a fill in tank on Tiamat and Cerberus until a PLD got there. then i was told to go switch to BRD.

You leveled bard and thereby sealed your own fate for a HNMLS!

[Therin]

I definitely wouldn't say WAR is obsolete. WAR/SAM with a Great Axe is semi-decent for the harder HNMs because you don't want to TP on them - if there are weak adds (read: Tiamat) then you can WAR/THF and do well. WAR still rapes Faf/hogg, can do Darkness for turtle, and tears the snot out of KB with any sub, so really it's just crappy for Khimaira/Cerberus and even then it can be decent if you're geared well and not a dumbass.

Sure, they aren't the best DD around in HNM but if you want to be technical all DD need an upgrade then, because SAM outshines all of the others. I can say the same thing that you said about DRK, DRG, RNG, and even BLU, though BLU does offer other things than damage in some cases. DRK is more of a stun-whore now, THF is useful only for TH, RNG blows unless you WANT to give the mob a retarded amount of TP, and DRG . . well, yeah.

Fact of the matter is, yes, WAR isn't that good anymore but don't bitch about it unless you want to see everything else buffed as well. You can still function as a DD and contribute, no you can't tank but you never could tank worth a shit anyway so nothing has changed there.

[Ryko]

I definitely wouldn't say WAR is obsolete. WAR/SAM with a Great Axe is semi-decent for the harder HNMs because you don't want to TP on them - if there are weak adds (read: Tiamat) then you can WAR/THF and do well. WAR still rapes Faf/hogg, can do Darkness for turtle, and tears the snot out of KB with any sub, so really it's just crappy for Khimaira/Cerberus and even then it can be decent if you're geared well and not a dumbass.

And unless you're zealot chances are you have 1 or 2 other DD jobs leveled that do it better, and even captain 3 years later is leveling SAM now.

[riddaraan]

i would honestly preffer to be a Career Warrior. but i've never had a LS that told me to come WAR always.

so... are you all telling me you would preffer to have a Warrior DD any HNM over SAM and DRK?

i KNOW War has awsome DD potential. i'm full of e-peen. Warrior can tank. but can you honestly tell me it's desierable? i mean seriously.



maybe i'm just peeved because i've never found a situation that HNM shells allow me to tank. instead i get made fun of and insulted for wanting to DD on WAR or tank on WAR. when i've proven in the past i was more than capable.

and ty Ryko seems you understand here.

As I said, I hate being so cruel. But the truth of the matter is that you've levelled jobs that are superior in use to WAR. RDM & BRD will almost always be infinitely more useful on Endgame than WAR. As said above, if you want a DD class you'll constantly be requested on, then level SAM. If you want to tank, level PLD.

Even if you did these things, however, I'm afraid you're always going to find that your RDM & BRD will be in far more demand. In most situations, an alliance will only need one, maybe two PLDs, but RDMs & BRDs you'll need at least 3 of each. More if you can spare it. If I could have two BRDs in my tank PT, I probably would never need a cotank.

My suggestion? Take BRD & RDM one at a time, set your HP in Cape Terrigan, and go to sleep. When you wake up the next day, you shouldn't have that problem to worry about anymore. Just make sure you have oils & powders to get your butt back to Rabao to change jobs.

[Caestus]

i had to level BRD because of how (as Ryko put it) Obsolite Warrior is on HNM. no LS would take just a Warrior and Ninja. not versatile. i leveld BRD. ok was fun sorta. so i leveld RDM to try and get things rolling more. i still love my Warrior though.

and even before the update..... SAM and DRK still outshined all other DD lol... with SAM being top.

i know of some players, Luminare, Nny used to be Carreer WAR tanks. as well as Dantrang maybe? and Ryko has WAR tanked in the past. it's always fun to add variety to things. and i've had a few ideas i have e-mailed into SE not sure what good it would do.

but like i said there is a Defender 2 in the .dat files already.

and i understand my RDM and BRD are more useful. just every now and then i wanna be able to dust off my Warrior that i've put so much time into over the years.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

So, are we saying that the day of the DRK has come? BWahahahahahaha

[Ryko]

I wouldn't really call dant a career WAR as much as I would call him someone who just hated using his paladin. He was smart to choose Ebody over Mbody.

[Sidanoir]

i had to level BRD because of how (as Ryko put it) Obsolite Warrior is on HNM. no LS would take just a Warrior and Ninja. not versatile. i leveld BRD. ok was fun sorta. so i leveld RDM to try and get things rolling more. i still love my Warrior though.

and even before the update..... SAM and DRK still outshined all other DD lol... with SAM being top.

i know of some players, Luminare, Nny used to be Carreer WAR tanks. as well as Dantrang maybe? and Ryko has WAR tanked in the past. it's always fun to add variety to things. and i've had a few ideas i have e-mailed into SE not sure what good it would do.

but like i said there is a Defender 2 in the .dat files already.

and i understand my RDM and BRD are more useful. just every now and then i wanna be able to dust off my Warrior that i've put so much time into over the years.

Sounds like a typical problem faced by any LS leader, and I guess your leaders are insensitive to giving people a chance to let loose on a different job once in a while when it doesn't sacrifice being able to complete the objectives

[Charla]

That's only 8 deaths a night...

Also, 4 pages 4 derails.

[ceolceol]

Remember back when WAR was "just a subjob"? Man... those were the days...

Now it's all ebody this, tank that.

[Seraph]

I will gladly DD Tuesday, for a tanking spot today.

[riddaraan]

i had to level BRD because of how (as Ryko put it) Obsolite Warrior is on HNM. no LS would take just a Warrior and Ninja. not versatile. i leveld BRD. ok was fun sorta. so i leveld RDM to try and get things rolling more. i still love my Warrior though.

and even before the update..... SAM and DRK still outshined all other DD lol... with SAM being top.

i know of some players, Luminare, Nny used to be Carreer WAR tanks. as well as Dantrang maybe? and Ryko has WAR tanked in the past. it's always fun to add variety to things. and i've had a few ideas i have e-mailed into SE not sure what good it would do.

but like i said there is a Defender 2 in the .dat files already.

and i understand my RDM and BRD are more useful. just every now and then i wanna be able to dust off my Warrior that i've put so much time into over the years.

Let me ask if you have these things so that you can tank superbly on WAR:
Macuahuitl +1 (x2) (+8 Enmity)
Dusk Gloves (+3% Haste)
Haidate (+5% Haste)
Sattva Ring (+3 Enmity)
Hercules' Ring (+3 Enmity)
Cerberus Mantle (+3 Enmity)
Warrior's Calligae (+1 Enmity)
Fighter's Lorica +1 (+8 Enmity)
Trance Belt (+4 Enmity)
Walmart Turban (+5% Haste)
Harmonia's Torque (+3 Enmity)
Intruder Earring (Since I can assume you have MP merits)
Stoic Earring

Max Sword Merits (Spirits Within, yo!)
Carbonara/Dorado Sushi (+3 Enmity)

12% Haste from this set, along with 32 Enmity, without food.

Now, if you have all of this, let me say that you're a great candidate to tank.

But I have one question - and this is why people prefer PLD over WAR. What happens when you /do/ lose hate? What happens when it slips from you and your timers are down? When a "Provoke" isn't enough? Your Black Mage gets nailed for 500 damage, and won't take another hit! What can you do? Generally, nothing. That's where Paladins are different. We're build to be able to do something about it. Toss a Cure IV his way. Even if that doesn't recall hate - which I don't know why it wouldn't - you've kept that BLM alive long enough for you to be able to pop off another cure, or perhaps your timers will be up.

In my opinion, people want the safer option when it comes to End Game, unless there's an absolute necessity for improvision. Simply because something like Tiamat, you don't want to lose claim to.

I wish I could be more empathic, but I levelled a tank job because I wanted to tank. Consider your tanking desires to go well in merit PTs. If you're any good, you get to tank there!

[Caestus]

i'm generally able to pull more hate on Warrior than any PLD tanking with me. that isn't the problem. Warrior when tanking, is considerd an MP sponge. that's the problem.

[riddaraan]

i'm generally able to pull more hate on Warrior than any PLD tanking with me. that isn't the problem. Warrior when tanking, is considerd an MP sponge. that's the problem.

Well, then I'd like to meet your usual Paladin and give him an educational lesson on holding hate. But your mages are right. You are an MP sponge. And Paladins are sponges which fill themselves. But the whole idea blink tanking is to not get hit. So that shouldn't matter.

If anything, your RDMs should be rejoicing they don't have to refresh you.

[Demetrius*]

you have a 75 NINJA. you already have a job leveled that will let you tank over paladins. wwtffff

[Seraph]

Cake. Eaten. Still there. etc.

So, besides making WAR just like PLD with the exception they can switch back to "do really great damage mode" what do you want? Defender2 which causes attack to go to 0 and defense to go to 999? Don't see any way of changing WAR to give you what you desire without completely breaking the job, or making it into either just another SAM or PLD copycat.

The way I see it, 'melee' jobs generally (and this is a rough model) fall into one of three categories:
1 - Awesome damage, possibly some defense abilities.
2 - Good defense and good offensive abilities.
3 - Awesome defense, possibly some offensive abilities.

You are claiming WAR falls under #2, but want WAR to have both #2 and #3. How is that not broken?

[riddaraan]

you have a 75 NINJA. you already have a job leveled that will let you tank over paladins. wwtffff

Sorry to wake you up, but that's so 2005. The introduction of Homam brought Ninja to its knees. I'm not being to egotistical here. I'd rather share hate & cotank with a NIN/DRK anyday, because its so much more predictable. But truthfully, there isn't anything a Ninja can do that a Paladin can't do better. Except maybe Charbydis. But I've tanked that with 5 people. BRD, DRK (stun), me, RDM, WHM. Although I'm sure THF does the best job, NIN can pretty much do it with 3 too, I think.