Hey SE

[Beckwin]

you have a 75 NINJA. you already have a job leveled that will let you tank over paladins. wwtffff

Sorry to wake you up, but that's so 2005. The introduction of Homam brought Ninja to its knees. I'm not being to egotistical here. I'd rather share hate & cotank with a NIN/DRK anyday, because its so much more predictable. But truthfully, there isn't anything a Ninja can do that a Paladin can't do better. Except maybe Charbydis. But I've tanked that with 5 people. BRD, DRK (stun), me, RDM, WHM. Although I'm sure THF does the best job, NIN can pretty much do it with 3 too, I think.

Kinda true, kinda not.

Many shells have returned to PLD.

We personally have no problems with NIN/DRKs, esp particular ones in the shell, of which Deme was one of them. Unlike other also very high profile reputable shells across other servers who say there are still hate problems, we haven't run into the cases they bring up.

So for us, PLD hasn't yet re-replaced NIN. Though we certainly have PLDs who can do perfectly well when we choose to use them.

Also, Deme, you forget that not all people are NIN75 and *good* at it. ;P

If your NINs levelled PLD, they wouldn't have hate problems on that job either.

[Ashael]

What happened to Echelon, aren't you the LS leader BCB? Tell your bitches you're gonna tank today. If you can't outtank CFG or Mbody/Ada wearing PLDs, then you need to evaluate your equipment and fix it.
What specifically are you wanting to tank? I'm not sure what you normally fight in a standard day, but seriously, if you're not crushing SAMs and holding hate thru pure damage, no amount of buffing of the job will help you. There're fights you can melee, and fights you can't. WAR can tank either. You have to gear heavily for either.
Seriously, WAR needs no boosts at this time to do anything. Have you tried tanking, before you start bitching that the job needs to be buffed?
If you're just stating it needs a new ability so people will take it seriously, that isn't how it works. You have to demonstrate that it can dominate, then people will take it seriously. SE's not gonna suddenly give WAR Defender2 or Etherealga or anything substansive.

[Caestus]

i can tank very well. that's not the point. nvm i'm done with this. it's just going in circles with no one really understanding. except a select few.

[Ashira]

If your NINs levelled PLD, they wouldn't have hate problems on that job either.

Except they don't want to. ;P

[RKenshin]

Really since when is WAR not a useful job anymore? It's without a doubt one of the strongest DDs now, and it doesn't need the ability to be anymore of a good tank than it can be to make it more useful.

If I had to rank the highest damage output potentials after this patch between fully decked out/meritted jobs it'd be something like SAM > WAR > DRK = DRG for the top DDs now, with SAM a bit ahead of all and WAR a bit ahead of DRG+DRK. WAR is the only job other than SAM that benefits from the whole SAM SJ bonus along with having Berserk+DA, giving it a considerate boost in damage as is without even factoring in Raging Rush and it's insane damage now. DRK and DRG both have to choose between Berserk+DA and the /SAM bonuses, and had a slight WS damage nerf with the accuracy reduction.

you have a 75 NINJA. you already have a job leveled that will let you tank over paladins. wwtffff

Sorry to wake you up, but that's so 2005. The introduction of Homam brought Ninja to its knees. I'm not being to egotistical here. I'd rather share hate & cotank with a NIN/DRK anyday, because its so much more predictable. But truthfully, there isn't anything a Ninja can do that a Paladin can't do better. Except maybe Charbydis. But I've tanked that with 5 people. BRD, DRK (stun), me, RDM, WHM. Although I'm sure THF does the best job, NIN can pretty much do it with 3 too, I think.

That frame of mind is the only thing that's 2005... Nothing about any setup for a decked out PLD excels in any one important area that an equally decked out setup for a NIN/DRK couldn't. Both jobs can reach the ~95% chance to resist mark for Barfira and Barstone, both jobs can get just about to the -50% magic damage taken cap (even without Aegis), both jobs can reduce melee damage taken down to similiar amounts, both jobs can solo tank just about any mob in the game, both jobs can generate hate extremely fast, both jobs can hit and hold the hate cap, and both jobs require about the same amount of support.

The only mentionable differences between them is one Cures for the bluk of their hate which is arguably more useful for some situations, and the other Stuns/spams other magic for the bulk of their hate (or sometimes melee damage depending) which could also be arguably more useful for some situations. And if you want to get technical, PLD now has two 'ohshit' enhanced JAs that can help them in some rougher situations, but really I hardly see it being used for anything other than hate generation most often.

Regardless though, when you're taking decked out tanks and setting them loose on an HNM you tend to not need the extra Cures from a PLD tank or the extra Stuns from a /DRK. So the comparison is futile anyway. Especially since if you're relying on a PLD's Cures or a /DRK's Stun to be the difference between life and death then the type of tank you're using is the smallest of your problems.

In the end all it comes down to is damage reduction and hate accumilation, which both can just about cap off in as far as how low you can possibly get damage/how high you can get hate accumilation. It's been like this for a while, and the whole 'NIN can't keep up' idea is the only thing that's 2005. Especially when you're citing the introduction of a set of gear that allowed PLDs to gain ~4% haste and 80 MP as the groundbreaking aspect, considering equal amounts of Haste/enmity in other slots were available and Homam just put some of those quailities in one piece of gear that gives you MP.

[Matrix]

Alexander misses bcb soo much. First we lose Vijayjr, then Bcb. the two most hated people. gone. omg

um... 2 corrections here, sentinel is 90% to 50% degrading then it turns off, 100-60% with boots. and the rampart stoneskin is damage absorbed = vit x2 i believe... not positive but you can increase the amount your magic shield absorbs.

(Quote from Highlulu)

My response to the bolded: How would you know? lololol

<3

[Caestus]

i'm disliked because i am controversial.

[Lordwafik]

The only mentionable differences between them is one Cures for the bluk of their hate

. . .

[Heian]

i'm disliked because i am controversial.

You are disliked because you are a fucking moron.

[Starr]

If I had to rank the highest damage output potentials after this patch between fully decked out/meritted jobs it'd be something like SAM > WAR > DRK = DRG for the top DDs now

Where's MNK? Or are you not talking merit/limbus/dynamis/salvage mobs? Cus then biggest damage doesn't matter as much as damage done/damage taken ratio where I'd put MNK ahead of DRK and DRG at least.

THF needs AT LEAST STR=Attack or something to increase base attack cus it sucks as /NIN for average THF.
WHM needs higher cure potency, maybe as a job trait, or to nerf RDM cures.
RNG needs whatever.
PUP I don't care.

Then everything is fixed IMO.

Btw Maxx this is the time of the DRG
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...rapentail9.jpg
:D

[Heian]

If I had to rank the highest damage output potentials after this patch between fully decked out/meritted jobs it'd be something like SAM > WAR > DRK = DRG for the top DDs now

Where's MNK? Or are you not talking merit/limbus/dynamis/salvage mobs? Cus then biggest damage doesn't matter as much as damage done/damage taken ratio where I'd put MNK ahead of DRK and DRG at least.

THF needs AT LEAST STR=Attack or something to increase base attack cus it sucks as /NIN for average THF.
WHM needs higher cure potency, maybe as a job trait, or to nerf RDM cures.
RNG needs whatever.
PUP Needs to be deleted from the game so we have more room for things like, oh I don't know anything but a shitty and fucking worthless job.

Then everything is fixed IMO.

Btw Maxx this is the time of the DRG
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...rapentail9.jpg
:D

[Pooky]

i'm disliked because i am controversial.

No, you're disliked because you're an idiot.

[spooky]

i'm disliked because i am controversial.

No, you're disliked because you're an idiot.

Oh God, look out BG, it's Zach. Save yourselfs!

[Eaglestrike]

If I had to rank the highest damage output potentials after this patch between fully decked out/meritted jobs it'd be something like SAM > WAR > DRK = DRG for the top DDs now

Where's MNK? Or are you not talking merit/limbus/dynamis/salvage mobs? Cus then biggest damage doesn't matter as much as damage done/damage taken ratio where I'd put MNK ahead of DRK and DRG at least.

THF needs AT LEAST STR=Attack or something to increase base attack cus it sucks as /NIN for average THF.
WHM needs higher cure potency, maybe as a job trait, or to nerf RDM cures.
RNG needs whatever.
PUP I don't care.

Then everything is fixed IMO.

Btw Maxx this is the time of the DRG
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...rapentail9.jpg
:D

THF just needs an increased crit rate. MNK and NIN get good +crit% weapons, Heart Snatcher is lol. Give us some form of +crit trait and even make it have different levels and make it work somewhat for /thf. Then there can be another option for DD jobs to sub, since currently THF is also a joke sub for most jobs.

RNG needs some form of their own haste. Their damage output is fine, their rate of damage is what keeps them behind. I parsed a party as 45 DRK against a 45RNG and 45SAM(/thf). We were all 3 within 1% total the whole party, then a friend came and the sam and I got haste. The RNG started to drop fast. And by endgame the DD jobs also get 1-2 marches and +10-25% haste in gear. Ranger doesn't shoot any faster really...

I'm thinking that they should add either an auto-regen and/or an auto-bubble effect to Protectra. Make it like 2-4-6-8-10 auto-regen. A rdm/whm party will be stuck at 4hp/tick, a pro V whm can automatically give everyone 6 more hp/tick. I highly doubt this would break end-game but I think it'd be real nice to put WHM up there as a wonderful merit healer. Also I'm thinking of a JA they can use on someone else (and only someone else) that will drop hate on that person.

What SE really needs to do is rethink SC's and more importantly EXP caps per mob. They should make some WotG mobs with 2-3x the HP and 3-4x the EXP gained per mob. As much as I enjoy tp burns and I'd probably stick with them as THF, there are some jobs that do a whole lot better in the older type of party. If SE could make both exp styles actually work, it'd do wonders for the game, IMO.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

THF needs AT LEAST STR=Attack or something to increase base attack cus it sucks as /NIN for average THF.

Then...don't sub NIN! Yes, it's more dangerous, but it's an option most THFs forget about. Note: Viking Shield and Tatami Shield are both quite hot.

Btw Maxx this is the time of the DRG
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...rapentail9.jpg
:D

No, it's not. GTFO. It's DRK time bitches.

[Plow]

I'm thinking that they should add either an auto-regen and/or an auto-bubble effect to Protectra. Make it like 2-4-6-8-10 auto-regen. A rdm/whm party will be stuck at 4hp/tick, a pro V whm can automatically give everyone 6 more hp/tick. I highly doubt this would break end-game but I think it'd be real nice to put WHM up there as a wonderful merit healer. Also I'm thinking of a JA they can use on someone else (and only someone else) that will drop hate on that person.

While you're at it give smn refreshga and regenga(2.5ish?) plz thx.

[riddaraan]

I'd quote you Ruke, but your wisdom is table breaking. While I agree with a lot of things you say, I'm not sure why you're mentioning only one piece of Homam gear. Perhaps my choices in equipment are quite different than your own, but I use 3/4 Homam (or 2, and Askar Hands, depending on situation) while main tanking pretty much everything. That's 9% haste, and 77 HP/MP, and Fast Cast. Sometimes I'll even alternately use Swift Belt.

And in reference to the introduction of Homam, versus Dusk and Speed Belt, which I'm guessing you're referring to, I'm talking accessibility. Most people in the game are actually quite poor, and Behemoth Hides have always been fairly expensive. Homam provided not only a "cheap" but also foundationally exceptional collaboration of haste, MP, and HP. They've provided a functional and fantastic alternative to our pre-existing poor armor choices before. Honestly, I tried everything I could afford before I got sea to try and figure out what worked the best for my job, and still, our only "good" choice was AF, or AF2.

In the end, I discovered the reasons that Ninjas typically tanked so well in most smaller end situations - by not taking damage, and by doing damage. I accepted and adapted. A Paladin with maxed merits in Sword and shield, and the accuracy given from Homam can generate quick Spirits Withins. Dynamis, for example, I don't use any enmity gear other than Homam Hands. And Dorado Sushi. It's all DD setup. And I rarely lose hate - it's typically only when a BLM goes a bit buck wild & nukes an IV at the start of a mob. However, many Paladins still live in the Dark Ages of yesteryear and think that /WAR is best. Or even Adman. (I confess, I used it briefly, because I liked the way it looked.)

I guess, in conclusion, what I'm trying to say is that Homam opened up a door to Paladins we never had previously given much consideration to. Sorry if I was a little late in coming to this realization. Not everyone was been able to use 9-12% haste, with Fast Cast, on a regular basis, pre-Homam. I'm not sure how you were.

[evilpaul]

Ryko doesn't like it, so I say add a second King Behemoth with the expasion.

[Therin]

Except maybe Charbydis. But I've tanked that with 5 people. BRD, DRK (stun), me, RDM, WHM. Although I'm sure THF does the best job, NIN can pretty much do it with 3 too, I think.

I trio'd Charybdis as PLD/NIN with a RDM and SMN. <_> It's a joke.

[theo]

WHM needs higher cure potency, maybe as a job trait, or to nerf RDM cures.

Please don't nerf my cures <_<;

Magic Cure Bonus ftw though, I never understood why WHM doesn't get this trait. It could scale up as they level just like MAB or MDB does. A WHM would cure for more than a RDM/WHM, who would then in turn cure for more than a RDM/BLM.