Nyzul Isle Drops...

[Indalecia]

TH is a must. Easily 1/10 drop rate w/o.

[Spidey]

It's my understanding, which is frequently wrong, that if you just pump it out 1-100, erase disc, and go back through its 100% drop from every kill, is this accurate?

If so if you do the math out, especially groups w/o TH3 or above (mine) wouldn't it be better to just spam through then go farm after?

i heard this as well.. and a friend of mine can say it is not true... the only thing that is 100% is floor 100
im currently on floor 55... drop rate on floor 20 is kinda shitty.. were 2/8 on drops on that floor.

[Midnightjade]

It's my understanding, which is frequently wrong, that if you just pump it out 1-100, erase disc, and go back through its 100% drop from every kill, is this accurate?

If so if you do the math out, especially groups w/o TH3 or above (mine) wouldn't it be better to just spam through then go farm after?

i heard this as well.. and a friend of mine can say it is not true... the only thing that is 100% is floor 100
im currently on floor 55... drop rate on floor 20 is kinda shitty.. were 2/8 on drops on that floor.

I can also say that this is not true. We did floor 100 on one disc last Sunday night, erased disc and got key item. We are now going back up with the same disc, and are currently at floor 26 on it. We reached the floor 20 boss fight on it last night (Adamantoise boss), and nothing dropped.

We also have another disc currently at floor 81. I don't know how many weapons we're going to end up with, but I think we'll be trying to figure out what they do - I for one would like to know the answer. They have to be more than just trophy pieces.

[Kainstryder]

About 18/37 on Floor 20 drops, first 10-12 has no TH period and we've yet to see Goliard drop...just Denali and Askar for all.

Droprates are about 50% with TH4 I'd say, I've definitely done 3/3 runs or 4/4 runs before, sometimes getting 0/3 or 0/4, it happens. However, not sure how TH fairs higher up, my groups still farming Floor 40, but we're about done.

[Kaziel]

I have to say thanks for this thread. Basically what I've learned is this:

Step 1: Get a set group of people, with set goals as far as which sets and which pieces they want. Make sure you have a 75 THF minimum. If he has anything beyond TH2, even better!
Step 2: Do a complete run all the way up to floor 100, erasing after you get your drop for floor 100.
Step 3: Repeat the floors 1 to 100 run until everyone has the body armor(s) they want, since there's a chance you will get drops from the other floors, and you know you'll get some sort of body armor at floor 100.
Step 4: Once everyone has the body armor they want, pick one of the floors that drop the Nyzul armor set pieces, and just farm it until everyone gets what they want.
Step 5: Repeat step 4 with a different floor, until everyone has what they want.

[Septimus]

I have to say thanks for this thread. Basically what I've learned is this:

Step 1: Get a set group of people, with set goals as far as which sets and which pieces they want. Make sure you have a 75 THF minimum. If he has anything beyond TH2, even better!
Step 2: Do a complete run all the way up to floor 100, erasing after you get your drop for floor 100.
Step 3: Repeat the floors 1 to 100 run until everyone has the body armor(s) they want, since there's a chance you will get drops from the other floors, and you know you'll get some sort of body armor at floor 100.
Step 4: Once everyone has the body armor they want, pick one of the floors that drop the Nyzul armor set pieces, and just farm it until everyone gets what they want.
Step 5: Repeat step 4 with a different floor, until everyone has what they want.

No.

Step 1: If you know a 75 Thief without TH3, send him/her packing. Seriously, TH3 is easy these days.
Step 2: Have your primary person start working towards floor 100.
Step 3: Have a secondary person start working towards floor 100 so that the primary person doesn't run out of points.
Step 4: Repeat the various floors getting the armors you want, clear 100 with your primary person to get a head piece and weapon.
Step 5: Your secondary person is now your primary person, start working up with new people so that you can farm whatever you want, and eventually get more hear pieces and weapons.

[OctavoGilgamesh]

I have to say thanks for this thread. Basically what I've learned is this:

Step 1: Get a set group of people, with set goals as far as which sets and which pieces they want. Make sure you have a 75 THF minimum. If he has anything beyond TH2, even better!
Step 2: Do a complete run all the way up to floor 100, erasing after you get your drop for floor 100.
Step 3: Repeat the floors 1 to 100 run until everyone has the body armor(s) they want, since there's a chance you will get drops from the other floors, and you know you'll get some sort of body armor at floor 100.
Step 4: Once everyone has the body armor they want, pick one of the floors that drop the Nyzul armor set pieces, and just farm it until everyone gets what they want.
Step 5: Repeat step 4 with a different floor, until everyone has what they want.

No.

Step 1: If you know a 75 Thief without TH3, send him/her packing. Seriously, TH3 is easy these days.
Step 2: Have your primary person start working towards floor 100.
Step 3: Have a secondary person start working towards floor 100 so that the primary person doesn't run out of points.
Step 4: Repeat the various floors getting the armors you want, clear 100 with your primary person to get a head piece and weapon.
Step 5: Your secondary person is now your primary person, start working up with new people so that you can farm whatever you want, and eventually get more hear pieces and weapons.

Like to add that the bodies come from floor 80, not 100. And you can continue to farm 100 heads at a less than 100% drop rate without wiping the disc by using the warp trick for the disc holder.

[Rem]

No.

Step 1: If you know a 75 Thief without TH3, send him/her packing. Seriously, TH3 is easy these days.
Step 2: Have your primary person start working towards floor 100.
Step 3: Have a secondary person start working towards floor 100 so that the primary person doesn't run out of points.
Step 4: Repeat the various floors getting the armors you want, clear 100 with your primary person to get a head piece and weapon.
Step 5: Your secondary person is now your primary person, start working up with new people so that you can farm whatever you want, and eventually get more hear pieces and weapons.

This is what our group is doing and it works out great. Denali seems to be the popular drop for us except for leg gear.

[Loren]

Small sample size, but my party is 3/4 with THF.

Frankly, it's a very strong job in Nyzul. They can solo most of the common mobs without taking damage, scout/radar/flee to rune quickly when needed, and limited crowd control with sleep bolts, plus TA+WS on the bosses if you have hate issues (e.g. fossil breath).

[OctavoGilgamesh]

Small sample size, but my party is 3/4 with THF.

Frankly, it's a very strong job in Nyzul. They can solo most of the common mobs without taking damage, scout/radar/flee to rune quickly when needed, and limited crowd control with sleep bolts, plus TA+WS on the bosses if you have hate issues (e.g. fossil breath).

I believe this as well, but if your focusing on purely advancing upwards and not on farming, most high end dd's will be better suited for nyzul than a non relic thf.

Shouldn't this topic be in event strategies?

[Aymee]

Frankly, it's a very strong job in Nyzul. They can solo most of the common mobs without taking damage, scout/radar/flee to rune quickly when needed, and limited crowd control with sleep bolts, plus TA+WS on the bosses if you have hate issues (e.g. fossil breath).

I... kinda laughed when I read this. Not that I disagree! My normal THF was so ridiculously sick of being THF (essentially TH slave and nothing more), we started a new disk just so she could play a job she actually liked.
Indeed, THF can handle adds rather well and is rather unkillable. However, since at least half the time Nyzul is a test of how quickly and efficiently you can run around and kill things, it puts THF at a huge disadvantage. Given the DD of my group is... WAR BLU MNK and her THF, her total output is roughly half (has been parsed much). ...And that's when she gets some chances to land SA-WSes. On the bosses it's even lower.

THF can be utility/support in Nyzul... but yea mostly a TH slave. Seriously, if you didn't want the TH would you actually bring a THF along? Never. It's essentially the same as taking the average THF for a merit PT...no relic or fancy-schmancy kings stuff but meritted out well in most ways. Oooh yea, TH slave. So totally a TH slave.

As for drop rate after 100 or so farming runs, idunno. Her TH3 seems to be 30% or so, at best. Without it? Uh, 20-25% or so? Honestly, after this much farming I don't know if TH matters at all in Nyzul and if it does, the effect seems minor. Whether she's THF or not, we can go streaks of 0/10 or get 3 Askar bodies the same night. Far too random for me to say there's any actual proof one way or the other. Anyone with 100+ farming runs is free to comment, but people in the range of 10-50 leaves too much room for randomness yet. Originally I had made a spreadsheet of moon %, day and TH along with drop/no drop, but after about 50 tags it was simply too random to make any conclusions and I gave up.

Jokes about her THF Knife being polarized got annoying. If AF ever drops out of Xarc, we'd probably try again for awhile with TH4... but I'm really standing behind the randomness after this much farming. There's only 1 other NA static that's even close to this much farming that I'm aware of on my server and from what I know they believe in the randomness as well (though slightly more believing in TH).

Edit: I agree this could be in event discussion or advanced... Complex Nyzul strategy formation I'd like to think is a tad above 'newbie discussion', though there are similar threads there.

[Pninja]

This info is actually covered in Event Strategies topics already, but I'll still make some comments ^^

I lead a group that has logged over 100 tags on Nyzul, and even though I don't have actual concrete figures (I only started logging our runs for the past few months) I can say we tend to get more drops with our TH4 on boss floors than without (sometimes he misses runs and we've taken fill-ins). My group's objective is to farm boss floors until we all have our "main lotted" pieces from each floor, then proceed to floor100. We're currently missing 2 Floor80 bodies and 3 Floor60 hands and we've taken a bit longer because we've repped people in the group that quit or whatnot. We have a lot of gear we didn't want as mains, and also a lot of no-drops because of either it being no drop or all of us having let's say denali and askar from a floor but wanting goliard which didn't "load" when nothing else could or w/e...but overall I'd say we're very blessed with 50%+ drop rate. I actually just looked at our last month of boss runs as I'm typing this, and the stats say 50% drop for us split between Floor60 and Floor80 spam. I also looked at a few months ago where our THF didn't make all the runs, and we had roughly 35% drop rate on Floor40s. Of course, you'll definitely have times where you go 4/4 on a day's run, and 0/4 on a day's run both with TH4. Just how SE works.

THF is a very viable job in Nyzul. Sure there are better jobs. I think one of my biggest complaint with THF on boss floors is the fact that they can't bring anything "super" like a 2hr to the table when needed, like a BRD or a SAM's 2hr when in a pinch. But many people report TH working positively toward making loot drop, so if bringing heavier DD isn't netting you the drops I don't see what the point of bringing heavier DD is to begin with (assuming you can win reliably). If you can't win reliably with having a THF in your party, chances are you need to re-evaluate your party setup overall. My THF comes SAM for progress floors when needed and then THF for bosses, and it helps a lot when fighting stuff like Hydra for crits and also to help my tank hold hate, which is a MNK/NIN. My group is very high-end gear, but no relics on these particular jobs...and our damage is never lacking.

[Loren]

I know it's not a strategy thread, but in response to people experiencing conflicts between drop rate and damage, all I can say is you've got an individual gimp problem. There's no inherent reason a THF should be dealing less damage than other jobs, esp. on low level mobs where DPS gain favors minimum delay. If your kill speed is being dragged down by some evasion-geared offhand-sword lolTHF, then seek a new one. Same goes for any job really.

[Weeks]

There's no inherent reason a THF should be dealing less damage than other jobs, esp. on low level mobs where DPS gain favors minimum delay.

Sure there is: THF is a second-rate damage dealer again. I'll need to parse to be sure, but of the 3 DDs my group is taking on its runs now, I think the SAM is top, the Perdu Voulge WAR who long since sold most of his WAR gear is second, and the THF with literally everything short of a Mandau and one piece of HQ Heca is third.

[Aymee]

THF is a second-rate damage dealer again. I'll need to parse to be sure, but of the 3 DDs my group is taking on its runs now, I think the SAM is top, the Perdu Voulge WAR who long since sold most of his WAR gear is second, and the THF with literally everything short of a Mandau and one piece of HQ Heca is third.

I agree entirely. THF is just currently really shafted by SE besides being a TH slave. Doing dmg in Nyzul is essentially a roaming merit PT--totally not a THF-friendly matter. My THF has homam, heca, w/e... pretty much everything but xarc hands for TH and relic... same parsing results.

The only mobs that favor the low delay of THF are like normal Puks and Imps... stuff that dies in 5 seconds anyway so there's no true benefit. Most of the mobs are very, very, very unfriendly to the low dmg daggers. Hell, they're not friendly to katanas either, which is why I come to tank as war/nin instead of nin/war (can't keep hate on NIN without doing at least some dmg). There are a ton of bones, ooze, flans, etc... just really unfriendly mob types to piercing and slashing. The 'real world' NMs get godawfully hard as well... running into Cassie or AQ on 90+ is harder than the actual boss because they have ridiculous defense. As for the bosses, I have enough confidence to let her SA-WS on stuff with flail moves... because even then a 300TP Assassin's Charge shark bite (or whatever) might get 1k. Whereas I can 300TP Warrior's Charge calamity a Khim boss for 2k+, and 1k from a 2-hander is entirely plausible dmg. It's gotten so comical with the item crate at start that you can drop any boss in about 30 seconds if you're prepared/buffed/have right items... but the THF can't offer any extra dmg to that.

Again I shall say, just as you would never ever ever ever invite a random THF to a merit PT due to lower total dmg output, they are entirely shafted in Nyzul and shoved down to TH slave. Actually, are there any cases where THFs are used anymore that aren't related to TH slave work? My supposedly lawl-able THF by standards of another poster is plenty talented, she's just out of place there. Furthermore, isn't it a sign of weakness of the balance of the job at present if a THF needs the absolute best everything to even try to come close to dmg output of another DD with more 'normal' gear?

Total Nyzul TH slave.

[Loren]

Sure there is: THF is a second-rate damage dealer again. I'll need to parse to be sure, but of the 3 DDs my group is taking on its runs now, I think the SAM is top, the Perdu Voulge WAR who long since sold most of his WAR gear is second, and the THF with literally everything short of a Mandau and one piece of HQ Heca is third.

If you bring enough healing to support those types of DD sure, but in some parties one healer + Utsu DD is more time efficient. We have a beastly SAM but whenever he subs WAR, his overall dmg is terrible because he takes a faceplant after every EES, Thunder IV, Fluid Spread, etc. Between weakened time and MP spent on Raise, it's just a giant anchor. We use 1-2 THF for every run and mobs melt like butter anyway, so my only point is I hate to see people biting their nails over "TH or dmg?" dilemmas that only arise because their THFs suck.

[Aymee]

If you bring enough healing to support those types of DD sure, but in some parties one healer + Utsu DD is more time efficient. We have a beastly SAM but whenever he subs WAR, his overall dmg is terrible because he takes a faceplant after every EES

There is not a single thing in Nyzul that uses EES. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Zero. In fact the only things that even use 2hr are NMs that have them in the 'real world'--namely Rams. And nothing else.
Edit: I forgot, 'leader' NM flayers use Manafont. This is particularly annoying since you can't stun/interrupt casting during MF.

Between weakened time and MP spent on Raise, it's just a giant anchor. ... I hate to see people biting their nails over "TH or dmg?" dilemmas that only arise because their THFs suck.

I hate to see people biting their nails over dead DD dilemmas that only arise because their healers suck.
I also hate to see people biting their nails over dead DD dilemmas because their DD have no restraint whatsoever, or their tanks suck.

Please do not say my THF sucks when you have no idea whatsoever. Go do 150 nyzul tags, show me some parse data and we'll swap stories about how THF can do more dmg. Until then, TH slave.

We're now entirely off-topic... someone end the thread or something ~.~

[sleekmotorwurkz]

So Far we are
4/14 floor 20
1/1 floor 40
0/1 floor 60

Our Normal Setup
NIN/WAR
SAM/THF
DRG/NIN
WAR/SAM
RDM/WHM
WHM/SMN

Which leaves us with TH1 only. Once we start farming floor 80, we are changing the war to pld/nin and me (the nin) changing to TH4 THF. I think our drops have been pretty damn good so far, but everyone seems to swear by TH on nyzul so we figure well give it a shot.

[Loren]

There is not a single thing in Nyzul that uses EES.

I realized after typing that I was thinking of Limbus since it's the same guy, but he dies plenty on Nyzul too.

I haven't killed a lot of bosses but it would seem odd if Nyzul bosses are coded to ignore TH. The stories of people with 10-20% drop rate with no TH are enough to scare me away from taking chances in the absence of a large database.

Aymee:
I would never insult anyone in your party sight unseen. I never intended to start any big DD debate either, my only observation is that your THF parsing at half of another job doesn't match our results at all, especially a Homam/Heca THF. Is she pulling, rune running, etc.? I think Nyzul is too complex to reduce to a simple test of damage output. To beat the clock, people will occasionally need to negotiate a mob sneaking up on their lamp, or tank a chariot or custard, etc. I only object to the word "slave" since I expect all 6 members to show initiative regardless of job.

[Aymee]

Aymee:
I would never insult anyone in your party sight unseen. I never intended to start any big DD debate either, my only observation is that your THF parsing at half of another job doesn't match our results at all, especially a Homam/Heca THF. Is she pulling, rune running, etc.?

I think Nyzul is too complex to reduce to a simple test of damage output. To beat the clock, people will occasionally need to negotiate a mob sneaking up on their lamp, or tank a chariot or custard, etc. I only object to the word "slave" since I expect all 6 members to show initiative regardless of job.

I agree that a parse is far from concrete proof because of the hectic nature... though it is always a disappointment and can result in extreme THF emo behavior. Like way more emo than the average galka drk or taru mnk. (Totally kidding. kinda) ...I do everything I can to keep my group happy and want them all in tip-top condition, and it's a drag to have someone be so down about their contribution... this being why I'll never force anyone in my static to ever come a certain job--I trust them to pick what they like and what will work and to work out the formation with everyone else.
...And hm, THF indentured servant instead of slave? As in, they don't feel their job is done 'til they prove their worth [via drops]? lol...
Ooh, THF migrant workers!--extremely high work ethic but discouraged by the rest of the social structure of Vana'diel because of their difficulty of getting employment in high-end activities like merit PTs. I demand we build a large fence across the entire sea between Quon and the southern empire to discourage more Mithra from coming over and spread the ways of the THF. Then again, relations with tarus would go downhill if they didn't have new skirts to look up in town. Perverts.

Having swapped out THF for heavy dd for 2 weeks now, we're all having more fun since things seem to go faster, lol. That is, assuming we don't spam pictures on rare 'types'/colors of mobs/Leaders, and if we can manage to resist deliberately WSing eachother while charmed.

...TH1 only. Once we start farming floor 80, we are changing the war to pld/nin and me (the nin) changing to TH4 THF. I think our drops have been pretty damn good so far, but everyone seems to swear by TH on nyzul so we figure well give it a shot.

Oh yea, this is the topic of this thread...
That sounds roughly about my guesses on drop %... 20-25 no TH, 30ish with THF... you're dead in the middle of that thus far with TH1, lol. More theories aplenty about if TH really matters, or if you just need 'some' TH trait for improvement, or TH3/4 for maximum results!

I'm still going to say it's mostly just random. There simply isn't enough data at this point--unless someone can go wander JPN forums and dig up results people have posted there, as well. There are very few (err, if any) groups that have wasted as much time in Nyzul as my static, so I'd love more people to compare results with.