White Mage Guide, Zero

[Masterofshade]

Hey Zero... we should talk about your guide. I couldn't see an E-Mail or another way to get a hold of you, so I'm posting here. I have a few suggestions, qualms, and inquiries. If anyone knows Zero personally, and sees this, please get him to come on here.

MoS

[Delekii]

You should become a politician, I don't think I could have been that diplomatic

[BRP]

I believe one of the reasons the idea of a BG-wiki is so popular is because we wanted to have no shitty guides. Shall we delete this?

[Khamsin]

Well, he is a White Mage Extraordinaire according to his user page. And he does explicitly state in his guide that RNG, DRG, BLU, PUP, and SAM are not recommended subjobs for WHM. He is also indeed correct that the five races are Hume, Elvaan, Tarutaru, Mithra, and Galka. So far, so good.

Plus, he's right about-- Holy shit, is that Cait Sith? No, it's:

Sub-Jobs for EXP Parties
Paladin
As I was running through Valkurm Dunes and hearing the singular sound of a Shield Bash, it gave me this idea. Statisticaly it gives minor MP, Mind and VIT. Ability-wise it provides Shield Bash and Sentinel to give a little extra damage and defense. Later, Cover can be used to help a low level with an event, such as quests or other uncapped fights. With the recent update and the addition of Auto Refresh, this sub job is now even more viable than normal. As far as I can tell, it is now a perfectly acceptable sub job for an EXP party or anything. I commonly use this in Dynamis and events where being far back is not an option.

I've changed my mind. But, as long as we're being diplomatic, all in favor of no shitty guides? Ok, burn it.

[Masterofshade]

Rofl... So I guess that means my guide passes the test...?

Yeah... no shitty guides is a good idea... that was one of FFXIClopedia's spectacular fuckups.

[BRP]

May I suggest to other guides, please use {{Guide}} and if you are going to include a meme, make sure it links to the meme page.

[BRP]

Zero, appeal to Sonomaa or someone else with a higher standing than I, but do not revert my changes. If you want to make a case for your guide, use the Talk page as the delete template says.

[Zero Serenity]

Um...use my talk page. I get emails everytime that's updated. Anyway, upgrade is done, I'll make more changes when I feel the need to add something. I think I'm going to break it up into subpages eventualy too.

[Tricen]

Rofl... So I guess that means my guide passes the test...?

Yeah... no shitty guides is a good idea... that was one of FFXIClopedia's spectacular fuckups.

I remember you :D

[Masterofshade]

So like... I pmed Zero. I told him basically... the entire thing was wrong. I wasn't subtle nor particularly nice about it, and told him to anyone who knows how to play WHM, his guide was blasphemy, and it was dangerous to anyone who didn't... he called me a dumbass (QQ) but to be honest, I don't think my stomach could handle another read through.

Now I know it has one of those "this is my opinion" disclaimers up top... but I don't think a "but hey freedom of speech" counts on the internet. This guide he wrote is basically a total joke, 90% of it is dead wrong (don't merit shellra much, sub paladin, melee lots it roxorz, banish is sweet, you should pull mobs back to camp, etc), and someone who is inexperienced could potentially take these things to heart, and will be ridiculed just like Zero needs to be.

So, are we allowing crappy guides? That the deal now? I know BG wants to make a diversion from it's "Elitist" past, but this is sirius business. This is like letting the Brady Guide into our (yes our) Wiki. This isn't being elitist because someone doesn't have good gear, or because someone hasn't killed Tiamat 200 times in the past 3 months, but someone giving vastly false information to people who may be using his guide to learn a job.

I think we need to set the precedent that guides of bad quality need to be burned, or, a subject of ridicule.

Note: I don't dislike Zero, I don't even know him. I just really dislike his guide.

[Zero Serenity]

Congradulations on reading the table of contents and not the actual contents.

[BRP]

Guides are being discussed right now in the other forum. Not much of a resolution has been decided yet. I assure you though, I'm going to be fighting to keep bad guides off the wiki.

Zero, if your guide is in need of upgrading, perhaps you should take it off now and put it back up when it has been improved to modern standards. You are just painting a big target on yourself.

[Zero Serenity]

I did just update it. It's better, yet nobody has any actual complaints of it yet, or they haven't bothered to bring it to my attention.

[Masterofshade]

Everyone's been too polite, and basically saying you're wrong on there, where your guide looks (and it happens to look a lot nicer than my own) professional, and we're saying everything you say is wrong, but I would be happy to send a PM with everything that's wrong if you would prefer?

Edit: Feel free to look at my guide, I'm pretty sure it has no incorrect info, other than maybe some random figures. I don't comment on anything unimportant, so it's pretty barebones. I need to add some comments as to why I say the things I do, i.e. protectra only good for 1 merit, if any, and shellra absolutely needs to be maxed out, most endgame stuff revolves around /nin, and magic dmg reduction is far more useful (not to mention shellra gets a huge boost per level, whereas tectra doesnt). Not sure how much... time to go find out...

[Zero Serenity]

Each merit to Shellra gives an additional .8% magic damage down.

IT'S MATH TIME!

That can convert to maybe... 8 damage down vs. something that does over 1000 damage and 16 with it maxxed out? You're talking out of your ass on that one. The difference is minimal at best, however it is drasticly nicer than Shellra IV. Not ever did I mention put more than three merits into protectra (because that's how much it costs.)

And a bonus to you from your wordplay. You've been the only person to say it's wrong. Allow me to continue. Devotion is fucking great. Even though the recast is longer than I'd like it to be, passing 300MP to a Paladin or Red Mage tank with absolutely no risk of the tanks dying is frigging beautiful. But I'm sure we can all agree Martyr still sucks. It's the only merit I've actualy took out in my carrer. I haven't decided where to put it, but it's leaning towards shellra, dispite the small bonus it does actualy give.

[Delekii]

And a bonus to you from your wordplay. You've been the only person to say it's wrong.

Think you need to get better at reading between the lines, since the first 4 people to post in this thread said indirectly but fairly obviously that there is a whole lot of crap in that guide. To be frankly honest, any WHM guide that endorses Melee during an exp party pre Mjollnir is an instant -100 points, disclaimer or not. That is only one problem.

Edit: MoS, wtf at your guide.. "Probably the best available sub in the game if you have Warcry Merits."? I hope that was a joke lol.

[Zero Serenity]

Read between the lines eh? I can't help it that I'm so literal. It's a programmers trait. In addition, about the only thing people have complained about is meleeing. Right. Read the rest of the guide for once. I'm a tad annoyed right now.

[Masterofshade]

MoS, wtf at your guide.. "Probably the best available sub in the game if you have Warcry Merits."? I hope that was a joke lol.

I linked to the Warcry Merits Meme with that Delekii. Teehee.

Ok Zero:

The progression across tectra spells, tectra 1, 2, 3, 4, versus the progression from 4 to 5... yeah, that's why you only put 1 merit in.

At least you figured out that Shellra 5 is a shitload better than 4. Barspell merits... Yeah, these are a must. Magical dmg, which seems to be a HUGE amount of the dmg tanks take (kited kirin, wyrms when they fly, fafnir's wings, etcetcetc). Tanks are all more than able to mitigate/ignore physical dmg, but magical dmg more often than not goes through shadows/wipes them. In a merit pt (if there even IS a whm) your merits really don't mean much of anything. A decent WHM with no merits can be 100% as effective in a merit pt, as one that is fully merited (for the most part). A little slower on the cures, not as good a regen, people take a little more dmg... but really, not that big a deal. Merits for WHM revolve almost entirely around endgame.

Meleeing absolutely never, cept skill up and the super duper rare mement when you have 15 people and 5 whms, u can whip out ur club.

pulling is a hell no, always.

anything but /blm for 90% of endgame is stupid, all merit pts should be /blm, unless ur meleeing, which you'll never ever do, unless in a whm whm whm whm brd brd KRT party. and while fun, not that great exp wise.

Enfeebling with a NIN, or RDM in the party is stupid, always.

Banish is nearly 100% useless. It's great for Holy kill SSs of HNMs, just to make fun of the BLMs and Melees, and casting Banish 3/4 on Ghosts in KRT for a MNK burn.

How the hell do you not cure very much? I have 3 merits in regen, so you at most have 2 more hp a tick than me. I've never been able to get away with just regening almost anyone. Ever. People take dmg, unless you're in one of those fantastic 5k/hr pts, then I can see that working for like... Melees. Sometimes.

Avoid Bene at all cost? ....wut? Just a tick... you want people to avoid this spell that's every -na spell, erase, and full hp in an aoe... cuz it gets a little hate? Yes, a LITTLE hate? I haven't been 75 for much more than a year, but you name it, I've main healed it, so I have experience. And, in all honesty, when Tiamat drops a wing then touchdown, people are gonna be hurt, you act FAST or you die... Benediction is instant, and quite honestly doesn't pull much in the way of hate post 60.

You encourage people to use Seawolf/Searobber Cudgels... Inexcuseable. Morgenstern/Purgatory is the best combo I've found.

Shields: Numinous/+1 or Astral Aspis.... not really any other options here.

Yigit Turban for casting? Walahra is all that and a bag of chips, Yigit ONLY good for the hMP, which it can be macroed for. Zenith crown is only for max mp, not actually useing.

No where do you mention Crow/Raven gear.

You never mention Tamas Ring, Magnetic Earring, Ether Ring, or Hedgehog Bomb.

Melee WHM: Revolves around the same 2 things every other job revolves around when it engages... acc and haste when TPing, Weapon Modifiers/acc/str for WS. Dex when TPing for staff only.

That's the shit wrong with your guide, fix it please before a noob decides to look at your guide and thinks they can engage on WHM. I'll break their heart kicking em from my party.

[Evelyn]

If I go much farther than skimming this guide my eyes will explode and the nerve endings will fly over the internet to kill you.

Since I'm not a WHM I won't comment on the intricacies like gear choices and such, but a few things I noticed:

A WHM meleeing is worse than a RDM meleeing during xp. No, just no. No no no.

Your concerns with melee skill on choosing race is appalling.

not having bar-spell bonuses makes baby Jesus, and your RDMs, cry. cuz that means we have to start casting them, and we've got enough on our hands.

Erm, don't need to cure much with regen merits? I laugh in your general direction.

I'll stop there since shade has a better list, but just pointing out that even a non-WHM can see the stupidity of this guide. Take it off pls.

[Stromgarde]

This made my brain hurt.