Time to start fussing about RDM gear!

[Ashira]

Ok, so I'm finally post-70 RDM and level by level get to tap into my WHM and BLM gear and get rid of crap I've been toting around for 30 levels.

Magic skill merits are pretty much done already, what with BLM; so have to work on RDM specific obviously, but that is not what this question about.

Has anyone done any specific testing on possible stat caps for proc rates on enfeebles? Right now I'm sort of assuming sort of along the same lines as BLM in a manner; hit 300? 330? Enfeebling or so then go for the MND/INT; but at this point also, will it negate the need for elemental staves?

I remember seeing some stats on exactly how much MND does what for slow, etc.. anyone have those handy for a repost?

[Gwynplaine]

This?
http://releenaseraph.livejournal.com/99901.html

[Saraphym]

but at this point also, will it negate the need for elemental staves?

what else would you cast with?..

[chapstick]

Club+Shield.

[Saraphym]

Club+Shield.

for rdm? is better than elemental staves?


wut?

[chapstick]

Yes. Club and Shield can give you an extra 13 MND. That's alot as far as potency of Slow II and Paralyze go. If you can land it without the staff and other enfeebling gear, piling on potency gear is awesome.

[Saraphym]

To even consider piling on potency gear you'd have to be pretty consistent in landing enfeebles to begin with, which around 320~ isn't even that great on sky gods to say the least. I don't know many situations where elemental staves wouldn't be preferred.

[chapstick]

Okay, well first of all, who cares about debuffing sky gods? If you're gonna do it, it might as well be with E.seal and full potency on. If no E.seal is available, then yea, you'll probably want maximum accuracy including staff for them. Sky gods are so easy at this point, debuffing them isn't a big deal.

Things like Tiamat, Ultima/Omega, solo'd mobs, etc - debuffs can be landed fine without max accuracy gear. In this case, it's a good idea to increase the amount of slow the mob receives by using more MND.

[Loren]

I'm not aware that any caps have been found.
The tests I've seen suggest that MND continues to matter for Paralyze and Slow up to +50 over the target's MND. We can't determine target's MND but it would never occur to me to worry that I'm capped on NMs etc. RDM base MND isn't that hot compared to jobs like WHM.

I would never consider ditching the staves either. If I finger slip and cast an enfeeble with wrong staff or Joyeuse on, I get resists on exp mobs so I'd love to know what success rates people are getting with wand/shield on NMs.

Basically, you'll be casting enfeebles either with (a) full accuracy, (b) full potency, (c) mix of accuracy and potency. (a) is a good idea for the yes/no enfeebles (Silence, Poison, Gravity, Bind, Sleep) but usually unnecessarily weak for Paralyze and Slow. If you can do (b) on IT mobs and NMs without resists then more power to you (though I'm skeptical). If you settle on (c) then you will have a staff equipped, no questions. The presumed ~15% accuracy bonus is like sushi meaning the equivalent of 40-50 points of skill. If you look at your armor slots, what's easier to compensate for, 13 MND or 50 M.Acc/Enfeebling skill?

[chapstick]

What does the "50 Acc" matter if you can already land it? At that point more MND will be more benefit. I'm not saying to get rid of staves. Staves are excellent. Still good for silence, poison, sleep, bind, grav, etc. And there's no alternative for nuking.

Keep staves because they are still the best for certain things. Try club/shield for slow and paralyze and see what you like.

[Saraphym]

Okay, well first of all, who cares about debuffing sky gods? If you're gonna do it, it might as well be with E.seal and full potency on. If no E.seal is available, then yea, you'll probably want maximum accuracy including staff for them. Sky gods are so easy at this point, debuffing them isn't a big deal.

Things like Tiamat, Ultima/Omega, solo'd mobs, etc - debuffs can be landed fine without max accuracy gear. In this case, it's a good idea to increase the amount of slow the mob receives by using more MND.

Who said sky god meant anything? I was using it as a base example, if you can barely enfeeble sky gods with 320~ skill & staff, which are pretty much lol as far as end game goes, why bother stacking on potency for anything else? Also, you can land debuffs on Tiamat, Ultima/Omega, consistently w/o elemental staff? More power to you then, toss on the club/shield, but keep in mind a resisted spell is a lot worse than a less potent one, good job wasting 30~40mp.

[Fiofio]

More power to you then, toss on the club/shield, but keep in mind a resisted spell is a lot worse than a less potent one, good job wasting 30~40mp.

This is pretty much why I use a Terra's Staff for sticking Slow II on Tiamat, I'd rather that the spell land and start working immediately instead of being resisted and causing a little chaos as tanks readjust to the faster attacks. Since I'm RDM/DRK, I have to watch for Firaga IIIs and I don't want to be caught recasting Slow II when Tiamat starts up the spell ><

However, I do use a Duelist's Chapeau and stack MND in the other slots, plus I eat a Goblin Mushpot (+10 mnd) or Mushroom Stew (+4 MND -4 enmity 40mp).

My advice is that going all +MND is usually only for VT ~ IT stuff. For most HNMs (not including super resistant stuff like sky gods, Khimaira and others), go with at least a +15 skill piece (Duelist's Chapeau or AF1 body) and the HQ staff to start with. The MP savings of less resisted spells and less strain on the tanks/healers (when your spell is resisted) is probably better than a slightly more potent Slow II, or whatever... the RDM point of view is not like a BLM's, where a resisted Tier IV nuke just does less damage and doesn't cause difficulty for the tanks/healers.

[Cat]

Who said sky god meant anything? I was using it as a base example, if you can barely enfeeble sky gods with 320~ skill & staff, which are pretty much lol as far as end game goes, why bother stacking on potency for anything else?.

Are you actually a rdm?

Sky gods are some of the most enfeeble resistant mobs in the game.

[zhan]

Okay, well first of all, who cares about debuffing sky gods? If you're gonna do it, it might as well be with E.seal and full potency on. If no E.seal is available, then yea, you'll probably want maximum accuracy including staff for them. Sky gods are so easy at this point, debuffing them isn't a big deal.

Things like Tiamat, Ultima/Omega, solo'd mobs, etc - debuffs can be landed fine without max accuracy gear. In this case, it's a good idea to increase the amount of slow the mob receives by using more MND.

Who said sky god meant anything? I was using it as a base example, if you can barely enfeeble sky gods with 320~ skill & staff, which are pretty much lol as far as end game goes, why bother stacking on potency for anything else? Also, you can land debuffs on Tiamat, Ultima/Omega, consistently w/o elemental staff? More power to you then, toss on the club/shield, but keep in mind a resisted spell is a lot worse than a less potent one, good job wasting 30~40mp.

Sky gods are the hardest mobs to enfeeble in the game, and they're so fucking easy noone really gives a fuck if you land an enfeeble or not cause they're dead so quick anyway...

Tiamat is a lot easier to land spells on and a fully merited, well equip RDM could get by using club/shield easily. Why do people try and proove a point when they've never done it themselves?

[Zosi]

Who said sky god meant anything? I was using it as a base example, if you can barely enfeeble sky gods with 320~ skill & staff, which are pretty much lol as far as end game goes, why bother stacking on potency for anything else?.

Are you actually a rdm?

Sky gods are some of the most enfeeble resistant mobs in the game.

QFT. It's much easier to land Slow on Tiamat than any sky god.

[Saraphym]

Ok, I guess I need to word it easier for people to understand, or people just really like to dwell on the same quote. Let's try this again;

The point is not what mob it is, it can be exp mobs, sky, kings, wyrms, whatever the fuck, you can get resisted on all of them even with merits/other gear/etc, that is the point. Unless somehow you have 100% landing rate.

The usefulness of adding MND for better enfeeble potency is not worth losing +10~15% landing rate. Is this to say MND is useless? No. But there are MUCH better eq slots/food/etc you can utilize for adding MND, and it's just not worth it to replace your staves in any scenario I see. Easier way for people to understand this maybe: Would you replace your AF1 body for errants when enfeebling and use staves to make up for it? I hope not, then why the hell would you use club/shield for +13 mnd over +10~15% landing rate?

[Bagel]

You really aren't a RDM, are you?

[theo]

The usefulness of adding MND for better enfeeble potency is not worth losing +10~15% landing rate.

Yes, yes it absolutely is worth it. I don't know about you, but I don't enjoy casting Paralyze II and watching it wear off without proc'ing a single time. But hey, at least you didn't resisted right?!

As far as getting resisted goes, its all a matter of learning the mobs. After doing, for example, Proto-Ultima a certain number of times, I'm pretty much accustomed to how much skill+ I need to land Slow II. Adding any more skill+ on top of that would be absolutely pointless.

Edit: Granted, for Silence and Grav MND is completely moot and you want as much skill+ as you can get. So if thats what you're talking about, I can agree.

[zhan]

Would you replace your AF1 body for errants when enfeebling and use staves to make up for it?

Yep. Better yet I'd use Errant and club shield on something that I barely get resists on....

Have you ever played RDM before? Do you have full merits and good gear? Cause RDMs don't get resisted nearly as much as you say... or at least I didn't before I got banned and when I jump on my friends RDM alt I don't.

[Ashira]

I didn't mean to start fights. ._.

But thanks for the input and info, would like to hear some setup examples on varying HNM too, from those with the endgame experience. Like, where do you find you can let up on skill in favor of stats, and where do your potency merits etc fall in line there...

I wish I could just be happy being mediocre, sometimes.