Time to start fussing about RDM gear!

[Tricen]

It's situational (duh). You really shouldn't enfeeb exp mobs cause of the MP usage, and when you really need to enfeeb something, just test out a few things, you can cast more than once. If it's endgame mobs chances are you will need enfeebskill and staffs. if you are /BLm then you get a free super high potency slowII which is always nice :3 But, just use common sense...

[Isiolia]

Eh, for a very simple take on it, I consider that for gear you're looking at three major spots for accuracy. Staves, AF body, and AF2 head (perhaps Crimson there too, I dunno, I have AF2).

For most XP/merit level stuff and below, assuming you have Enfeebling merits as well, you should be alright with one of those slots used, and the others with potency. Unless the mobs are resistant to that element (which is the case with some merit mobs even).
Primarily this is relevant if you are small-manning stuff and really want to boost Slow II up or whatnot. I have little trouble casting in AF2 hat + errant body and mythic/numinous +1s on that level stuff.

Go a little harder, things like Dynamis Xarcabard NMs, and you're putting in two of those slots on things that matter. I tend towards AF2 + staff + errant.

Top end, use all of them...

Remember too that tier II enfeebles have MAcc to them. So if you have level 2-3 Slow II, it's got an inherent edge already.


From most discussions I've seen and participated in on the subject, once you get into the 320-330 range, you really aren't going to see a measurable improvement from more skill. The simple fact with enfeebling is that some things are just not made to ever be reliably enfeebled (sky gods being the classic example, which is why it's so lol to even mention them). You'll be fine outside of HNM type stuff with 310 or so skill when using staves.

[Xajii]

I didn't mean to start fights. ._.

But thanks for the input and info, would like to hear some setup examples on varying HNM too, from those with the endgame experience. Like, where do you find you can let up on skill in favor of stats, and where do your potency merits etc fall in line there...

I wish I could just be happy being mediocre, sometimes.

Generally and assuming you have enfeebling skill merits, you can start to let up once your skill passes 315-320ish on kings, Tiamat falls in the range right above that. I enfeebled in 324skill on most things. Cerberus and Khimaira are a bit more resistant. I would not advise using club/shield unless you have top notch skill gear, I'm talking at least 335+ skill. It's not that you won't be able to land it, but you're going to waste mp and time casting it until it does land. If you are the refresh bitch in blm pt or something, or just an extra heal - that is, if you are a RDM in the alliance not in stun order or in tank pt - you probably have the mp and time to fuck around and see if you can land it with stacked mnd. What I do in that situation is swap out af body for crimson and staff for mistil/num+1 but that makes it significantly less likely to land per cast.

Also you should understand the differences between para and para2, slow and slow2... at least for paralyze it seems designed for landing on high resistance mobs, like Cerberus; the proc rate is affected by MND but it really depends on the specific mob how well it will land. In fact sometimes I prefer Para1 on Fafhogg because it tends to proc more once it's landed. SlowII has higher caps than SlowI but you're hard pressed to reach those, it takes a good +50-60 in gear for me to get there.

Not sure what you mean by potency merits, those are blm. Accuracy merits? I did 5 wind and 2 earth with 3 convert in catg1. I don't think you could say 5 wind merits makes up for not using Auster's on a cast, it does help though.

What you're looking at here is in most situations stacking as much MND as you can without gimping your skill. So here is what I enfeeble in on kings and Tia:

Staff
mnd grip
tathlum
crimson mask (replace with af2 hat lolz)
enfeeb torque (you could use promise badge and probably be ok with merits)
mnd earrings (gimp +1s for me, but go for celestial or cmn or whatever, or static) (enfeeb earring not usualy necessary here)
af body
wise+1 gloves (i likei t for the enmity-, you could get 1 more mnd with hq devotee's though)
mnd rings
prism cape
penitent's
mahatma slops
mahatma pigaches

About +45, not that great but you can improve all that gear.

Another thing to think about is Goblin Mushpot a +10 MND food, I use it whenever I am not in tank pt because that's more useful to me than 80 MP

Only when you get to Cerb and sky gods would I consider stuff like enfeebling earring, master caster's, etc.

[Bagel]

It is deceptively easy to think of RDM enfeebles in the same way as you would BLM nukes, or melee hits. With those damage jobs, you generally aim for enough skill+ or acc+ to get a comfortable "hit" rate, whether it be physical or magic accuracy, and then load on your damage stats, INT and MAB or ATK and STR, w/e. RDM is ENTIRELY different. If you cast Paralyze on a mob with a skill heavy set, you may get a 95% land rate, but the potency will be very low. On the other hand, if you swith to a MND+ set, with half the success rate, it'll (probably) only take you 2-3 tries to land the spell, but it will be much more effective for the entire duration of the spell.

As for staves v. wand/shield, I personally use staves only. I really don't have the inventory space to waste to slots on +9 MND (I wouldn't buy HQ numinous or Mistletein). Also, I only have 2 enfeebling merits, so I get the occasional resist anyways.

[Ambir]

Know the mobs you're Enfeebling, and tailor your gear to suit the enfeeble you're casting. Each mob has a different resist rate to each enfeeble.

For fixed effect enfeebles, Enfeebling Skill/Magic Accuracy > all.
For Variable strength enfeebles, evaluate accuracy vs potency and choose your gear. A nearly maxed Slow II can approach 36% slow, while casting without mind gear will give only about half that.

Limbus/Salvage mobs have mostly very low resist rates. Casting in MND gear will almost always land Para/Slow, and it will proc a lot more.
Fafnir/Nidhogg has pretty decent land rates for Para II/Slow II. May need a little accuracy gear, but often a HQ Staff is enough. Paralyze II in particular procs well here if you use MND gear.
Sky Gods have really low accuracy for all enfeebles. You seem to be at an Accuracy "floor" and skill doesn't seem to matter... everyone seems to have about a 10% accuracy rate, even BLMs and WHMs.

[rydiu]

there's only one way to solve this.

ban ashira!!!

ninja edit: fiofio, über cute avatar. can i eat it?

[Ashira]

[Saraphym]

I was gonna argue some more, but Fuck it. After talking to a friend, he's gotten to me to see things from a different perspective.. After all I realize this is a discussion forum and the idea is to take and give ideas/suggestions and not blindly swear by your own way of doing things.

Instead I will do what I see very rarely on public forums & would like to apologize for being so narrow minded and stubborn. That being said, I'm still not fully convinced that wand/shield is better than staves, however I've never done any testing of my own, so I have no excuse other than I'm simply biased.

Anyways, no matter how I look at it, I guess the only thing to say is; shit is situational.

[Dammerung]

I was gonna argue some more, but Fuck it. After talking to a friend, he's gotten to me to see things from a different perspective.. After all I realize this is a discussion forum and the idea is to take and give ideas/suggestions and not blindly swear by your own way of doing things.

Instead I will do what I see very rarely on public forums & would like to apologize for being so narrow minded and stubborn. That being said, I'm still not fully convinced that wand/shield is better than staves, however I've never done any testing of my own, so I have no excuse other than I'm simply biased.

Anyways, no matter how I look at it, I guess the only thing to say is; shit is situational.

You do realize that you can cast a spell more than once if you get resisted the first time. Might as well have it land and actually do something.

Me, I use hq staff/af2 hat/af1 body/torque and put mnd everywhere else, simply because it is the most convenient for what I actually use rdm on and I don't have to have different macro levels depending on the difficulty of landing on the mob. RDM is not my main (it's a mule character that I 2box..) so I don't go the die-hard route of club+shield for max mnd.

[AzazaelFenrir]

On Omega and Ultima I start using af2 hat/af1 body/torque, and go max mind. the majority of the time I am not resisted. There is something extremely sexy about seeing Ultima get 4 para procs in a row, and 7 total on the spell cast. If I having big problems I will switch club/shield out for HQ staff+Strap.

[Ciaran]

It's really just variable. Personally, I cast every enfeeble using HQ Staff, AF2 Hat, and AF1 Body. The rest of the gear slots I use +MND. That's my personal preference.

The only mobs I'd make an exception for are Khimera and Cerberus, the RDM's bane with enfeebling magic. At that point I'd swap out a few pieces of gear for MACC, because I've seen RDM's stick Slow 2 after 10+ casts total (per rdm.) Those mobs are so damn annoying. So if you're going RDM to those fights, might want to consider Nashira Seraweels (or whatever the legs are called) or the new +4 MACC ring and use one or both of those. It's a really fine line you have to tread with those mobs, but getting Slow 2 on it is better than depleting your entire MP pool trying to land it while your PLD gets smacked around at full speed. (It's especially frustrating when, out of the 3 RDM's in the alliance, you're the only one trying to stick the spell. -.- Ideally, you want to go to those as RDM/BLM and use ES Slow 2 with maxed MND gear, but most often with my linkshell, our RDM's sub DRK for stuns.

Anyhow, my 2 cents.

[Ashira]

Well, it's certainly interesting to read what everyone has to say.

My biggest reason/concern in asking, because obviously there's no issue stacking on enfeebling, etc; but it's more of the idea of "do I need to get this piece and this piece and this piece for the 1 more MND than what I wear currently" sort of deal, esp where I am lacking quite a bit being Mithra. So was kinda hoping for some more figures and setups, esp on HNM, where maybe attacks were timed, etc, before and after landing Slow to give some sort of idea on the setups used, etc, so that I could hopefully plan to get full potency with the least amount of baggage. :/

But still, thanks for the input, and any more info would be appreciated as well.

[Ciaran]

{Hmm} So what you want is gear setups?

Right now my setup something like this...

HQ Staff
Raptor Strap +1
Hedgehog Bomb
Duelist's Chapeau (Or Crimson Mask. If neither of these, AF1 Hat.)
Enfeebling Torque (Remember, Spider Torques at 75 make baby Jesus cry.)
Loq. Earring + Enfeebling Earring
AF1 Body
Marine M Gloves (You will want Wise +1 or Devotee's +1. Humes are lucky in that this hand armor is great all-around.)
+MND rings. Best you can find.
Prism Cape (Rainbow if poor.)
Currently I use an Ocean Rope for +mp, though I'm probably going to swap it out for either Penitent's Rope or Duelist's Belt. (I have Duelists, so probably that.)
Errant/Mahatma Slops
Duelist's Feet. (They will hopefully be swapped out for Morrigan's Feet sometime within the next few months. Those feet are the kings for Enfeebling, +10 MND.)


Generally, the only thing that changes between spells is the staff. If you can get Nashira Pants, or Altuistic Cape, then I'd use those instead of Prism/Errant for Cerberus and Khimera, and some Sky Gods. Generally with the above setup, though, I don't have too much trouble sticking Slow 2 or Silence. (As an aside, I don't own either Nashira pants or Altruistic Cape. And in a pinch, Wise Pants can be used for +MACC, but be warned. They are ugly as fuck.) The new CoP Ring with +4 MACC is also something to consider with those fights.

Fafnir, Tiamat, Proto-Omega, Proto-Ultima and most everything else you don't need MACC at all. First....about 2/3rds of the fight you won't have any trouble sticking unless it's a bad day. The last 1/3 it can get alittle resistant, but I've never needed more than two casts to stick my spells, without sacrificing MND. (Obvious exceptions: Tiamat and Paralyze, Ouryu and Slow. By the way, Cerberus can be Paralyzed.)

More along the lines of what you wanted?

[Lyramion]

Well you can always land a Slow 1 with lots of Antiresist Gear and then try to overwrite it with a full blown MND Slow2?

[Xajii]

To answer the question I -think- you're asking-

Stack MND. I'm not saying splurge ~2mil for a white box with only one extra MND, but that being said.. stack it. Virtually every slot except body, head and main are yours to stack MND on in most situations. The exceptions IMO are Proto-Ultima, Cerb and Khim, as well as anything in sky. In those situations, throw on your enfeeb torque, and if you have them, Alt cape and nashira pants.

[Vyloan]

My debuffing setup looks like this:

Mistiltienn
Nms. Shield +1
AF2 head
Enfeebling torque
Enfeebling earring
Magnetic earring
Mahatma body
Dvt. Mitts+1
Tamas/Aqua
Alturistic Cape
P. Rope
Mahatma Slops
Mahatma Pigaches

I also have 8/8 enfeebling magic merits, I get a total of: 322 enfeebling magic, +59 MND (I want AF2+1 head ;-. That's my standard and it works well, has a good balance of everything and I land my spells ery well. Obviously for some fights like Khim or Cerb I'll go full enfeebling skill /accuracy.

[Ashira]

Yah, mostly I'm getting an idea here. It'd just be nice if there were a more set number idea, like with Stoneskin and such; like, can I skip the Mahatma Pigaches and stick with River Gaiters; can I sell these Dvt. Mitts +1 and just use Yigit Gages, etc... those little bits of +1 here and +1 there that I am most afraid will be where things are apparent, esp with a lower base MND than an Elvaan or Hume where I should then be trying to make up the difference. ._.

Granted, I know I still do better than most out there already; I've had no problem silencing, dispelling, and for the most part sleeping Imps, for example, for the last couple levels, when some 75s think you can't sleep them at all... not that that has anything to do with MND. It's just that whole perfectionist thing, I guess.

But anyway, thanks for the input, obviously will have to play with it and will no doubt get very frustrated in general and refuse to ever go RDM to anything.

[Tajin]

The problem with saying Yigit instead of Dev. is when you use that same line of thinking for the rest of the gear, and end up lacking 7 or 8 points in the skill.

Example my uber gimp BLM:
NQ cape, 3INT ring, NQ legs, NQ belt

Now:
HQ cape, Snow Ring, NQ legs still (;-, P.Rope = +6 INT or +7 with HQ legs.

Then again it also depends on what you will use RDM for, and the gear of your party members also known as shit is situational :D

[Ashira]

Yeah, of course; it's just a matter of the whole trying to cut down on extra pieces that I only use on one job. :/ So like, I have Mahatma slops, and Prism Cape, etc, for BLM, and 5MND/INT rings; but I stopped using Dvt for Stoneskin after the straps came out and swapped in Yigit (so if I have enough space, I have my most optimum hMP set too - sometimes I can take them all on BLM, sometimes can't). I don't have Mahatma Pigaches cuz I use Clr Duckbills +1 for Cure V on WHM; etc. That sort of thing.

I just don't want to be so overloaded that I have no space at all; though leveling up has certainly lightened up my mog safe. :D

[Tajin]

yeah, i need a few more levels on RDM, tired of carrying low level belts and capes -.-