Amazing Items Crafted Even More Recently!

[Chastiti]

I never understood why people got so hot and bothered over this discussion. Obviously some people believe that day/moon/direction/what they're eating affects their crafting, while others don't. But does it really affect that way you craft or play the game in general if they're standing a certain way or waiting until such and such day with 3000% moon to synth?

Why can't people just go, oh hey, good luck with that and move on with their day.

It doesn't have to turn into a big ego fest everytime someone mentions it. >.>

[DanielRemora]

Jealousy springs to mind. Anyway,

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1...6101812ng8.png

So you did it on a day and moon phase you previously said your chance of HQing wouldn't be optimal.

Good stuff.

[vegetaa]

Wait, you honnestly think your friend purposedly went 2/2 on Kaiser body ? Only thing I can tell you at this point, is to follow Linsivi's advice.

In that kind of situation, it's not our duty to prove you wrong...it's basically your duty to prove you're not pulling random unrelated facts out of your ass. The only *scientific* way to prove your theory is to bring some valid data about thousands of crafting attempts even though I know the person I'm talking about never made a claim to prove any sort of theory, and even though I'm not bringing valid data about thousand of crafting attempts to prove anything to the contrary. So far you brought data about...let me count real quick...2 attempts.

fixed. Also use your spell-check.

I'll sure do as soon as BG converts to a grammar and spelling forum, and when you prove me that you write as well in my native language as I write in yours.

Ah yes, all the masses that attempted to synth under specific conditions and it didn't work. And I suppose the masses of synths that did HQ under specific conditions needn't matter at all. I see more veteran crafters who have no luck with special conditions, but almost as many who do. I'm not claiming that you can't give me a source where there's actually an organized compilation of such a large number of synths as you say, but if you're going to bring it there and state that you're dead positive that synths are completely random, you'd better back it up. I don't say you don't have a source to link, but if you do, please do so. It's much easier to prove that there's no evidence to firmly substantiate something than it is to prove that there is evidence to firmly substantiate something, in most cases. Unless there's firm evidence on the age-old crafting condition debate, it's best to remain neutral on it and go with the anecdotals for your own personal synths.

What you're saying can be translated to : "Some people craft according to a theory that has absolutely no backing up in the game. But if you think they're wasting their time doing so, you better have some massive proofs they do".

This community has existed since early 2005, and some of the most successful crafters from all servers took part to this debate at some point. Thing is, the general consensus is that it's a theory with no backing-up whatsoever, bullshit if you prefer. Many crafters have kept track of each and every synth they attempted, and didn't see the slightest sign of an improvement related to direction, day, gear or whatever, in their records which often included hundreds or even thousands of synths, aka a valid sample (If you're clever enough to fix other people's spelling on an internet forum about an online game, I guess you're fairly familiar with basic statistics and sample size, am I right ?).

Be sure everyone will change their mind and stick to your theory, the day you bring some solid proof that you can get something better than the usual tier0-1-2-3 rates for your HQs, on a large enough sample of attempts.

[Skeetaru]

I never understood why people got so hot and bothered over this discussion. Obviously some people believe that day/moon/direction/what they're eating affects their crafting, while others don't. But does it really affect that way you craft or play the game in general if they're standing a certain way or waiting until such and such day with 3000% moon to synth?

Why can't people just go, oh hey, good luck with that and move on with their day.

It doesn't have to turn into a big ego fest everytime someone mentions it. >.>

Because they are wrong, its that simple. We dont need these stupid ideas festering in out message boards. Go to Alla with that. (not you personally, the people with dumb ideas)

[Eldelphia]

I never understood why people got so hot and bothered over this discussion. Obviously some people believe that day/moon/direction/what they're eating affects their crafting, while others don't. But does it really affect that way you craft or play the game in general if they're standing a certain way or waiting until such and such day with 3000% moon to synth?

Why can't people just go, oh hey, good luck with that and move on with their day.

It doesn't have to turn into a big ego fest everytime someone mentions it. >.>

Because they are wrong, its that simple. We dont need these stupid ideas festering in out message boards. Go to Alla with that. (not you personally, the people with dumb ideas)

But this is exactly what is meant... there's no need to get stressy over it. I've had hq's at varying points and I worry less about it now than I did. In my experience there do seem to be better time for gaining skillups than not but I'm happy to accept that that might be random luck and personal superstition and just leave it at that. I worry about it all far less now than I used to do.

Whatever your personal take on it, you simply can't impose it on others. I mean can't as in it won't work, not that you're not physically able to try. Doesn't help of course that people see crafting by nature as competitive and secretive and on the whole are looking to get one up on their fellow players.

If people want to craft upside down hanging from a ceiling light with their moogle whipping them lightly with asparagus, they can do it for all I care and it doesn't bother me in the slightest if they want to advocate that here or anywhere else. I just do my own thing.

[vegetaa]

If people want to craft upside down hanging from a ceiling light with their moogle whipping them lightly with asparagus

Now I can't wait for my next crafting batch...

[Chastiti]

I never understood why people got so hot and bothered over this discussion. Obviously some people believe that day/moon/direction/what they're eating affects their crafting, while others don't. But does it really affect that way you craft or play the game in general if they're standing a certain way or waiting until such and such day with 3000% moon to synth?

Why can't people just go, oh hey, good luck with that and move on with their day.

It doesn't have to turn into a big ego fest everytime someone mentions it. >.>

Because they are wrong, its that simple. We dont need these stupid ideas festering in out message boards. Go to Alla with that. (not you personally, the people with dumb ideas)

I can see where you're coming from to an extent, like I kinda grit my teeth when I see a new crafter talking in /say telling another new crafter, Hey if you stand this way and hold your breath until you're just about to pass out, then you'll get all this skillups ever!!11. But, I guess, also the way I see it, was when I got into crafting, the first thing I did, was -a lot- of research and a lot of testing on my own. I definitely agree that it's a wrong theory and that crafting is pure luck, of which I have none, but any legitimate crafter is going to do research and base their ideas on that.

I also understand that it's irritating hearing questions about it a million times a day when it's been "proven" wrong and you keep saying it until you're blue in the face, but everytime I see it, I just chuckle to myself and go "Damn, they're wasting so much of their own time." That's exactly what it boils down to, they're wasting their own time. Nothing to do with myself or any other crafter.

90% of the time with these people, you're never going to get them to go "omg, you're right! I've been doing it wrong this whole time, it all means nothingggg" and you'll probably just get something along the lines "These guys are such assholes." Which is fine for them to think, you're just never going to get the satisfaction of knowing that you enlightened someone or proved them wrong. With all the information out there, if they're still posting about which way they're standing and S&M/food fetish moogles, they're not going to be any smarter by you saying it once again.

Anyway, totally derailing this thread and if I had something amazing that I made, I'd post it, but I'm like 0/500 on t1 and t0!

Happy crafting, you jerks with way better luck than me

[suji]

I also understand that it's irritating hearing questions about it a million times a day when it's been "proven" wrong and you keep saying it until you're blue in the face, but everytime I see it, I just chuckle to myself and go "Damn, they're wasting so much of their own time."

Well, technically it hasn't been "proven" wrong, it's just that:
1) Anyone who tried to find any sort of favorable pattern with the crafting system has come up short over time, and
2) People do just fine without thinking about that whole fucking ordeal.

[Skeetaru]

I never understood why people got so hot and bothered over this discussion. Obviously some people believe that day/moon/direction/what they're eating affects their crafting, while others don't. But does it really affect that way you craft or play the game in general if they're standing a certain way or waiting until such and such day with 3000% moon to synth?

Why can't people just go, oh hey, good luck with that and move on with their day.

It doesn't have to turn into a big ego fest everytime someone mentions it. >.>

Because they are wrong, its that simple. We dont need these stupid ideas festering in out message boards. Go to Alla with that. (not you personally, the people with dumb ideas)

But this is exactly what is meant... there's no need to get stressy over it. I've had hq's at varying points and I worry less about it now than I did. In my experience there do seem to be better time for gaining skillups than not but I'm happy to accept that that might be random luck and personal superstition and just leave it at that. I worry about it all far less now than I used to do.

Whatever your personal take on it, you simply can't impose it on others. I mean can't as in it won't work, not that you're not physically able to try. Doesn't help of course that people see crafting by nature as competitive and secretive and on the whole are looking to get one up on their fellow players.

If people want to craft upside down hanging from a ceiling light with their moogle whipping them lightly with asparagus, they can do it for all I care and it doesn't bother me in the slightest if they want to advocate that here or anywhere else. I just do my own thing.

Its a problem when enough people bring it up, then every 3 days a new thread gets started by someone who cant find any credible information here and wants to know WHAT WAY DO I FACE?!?! anyway lets get this thread back to Amazing items shall we?

[thestalkmore]

stfu skeet gawd it'z not like ur posting itemz

[Nitecon]

~1/12

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...116_205303.png

[Ramzii]

~1/12

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...116_205303.png

/l OMG!
...A command error has occurred

grats though xD

[ASG]

Nice grats, how much you selling that puppy for? or keeping for your thf?

[Nitecon]

Nice grats, how much you selling that puppy for? or keeping for your thf?

I have drg at well at 75, but i'm going to sell it, gonna fund some Salvage gear!

[Shamaya]

I usually don't take an arrogant stance, Vegetaa, but my opinion is that you need to be careful about what kind of conclusions you draw about what you read. Neither I nor Shizuka said that we believe that conditional HQ/success theory has been proven. Don't try to make the claim that we did. There's quite a difference between the personal tenet of crafting at certain times 'just in case' for major synths, and the personal tenet of actually believing in the theory as substantiated and true. The annoying thing about a lot of crafters who basically never craft on specific days 'just in case,' is that they take the former tenet I mentioned as an indication of the second tenet, and enjoy making fun of others. It's really very silly. Unless you see someone posting saying something quite like "but conditional HQ theories are proven," don't necessarily interpret them as implying that.

I don't believe in the conditional theories. But fuck, I craft on specific days for important synths because the conditional theory, as I said, has not been proven wrong. Your 2 years+ of BG threads is exactly why we shouldn't believe in the conditional theories, but it is by no means, to use your own strategy on this subject, proof. You say something about huge sample sizes including thousands of synths in order to substantiate a claim, and yet you provide no such test or data supporting yours. That seems rather silly to me. Oh wait, here's a thread including thousands of synths that does support conditional crafting theory -
http://www.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fo ... 0388898652 . Oh wait, I guess 2304 synths is not enough of a sample size? Oh wait, and it's allah too, guess that voids the whole thing eh? Damn, thousands of synths organized in nice-data tables which support conditional HQ's. Guess it's completely devoid of any value. In any case, this is an old assortment of data. However, I think that the test very much still holds bearing. The test could easily be repeated even now. I don't think the game has changed in a way that makes that test invalid. But fyi, no, even with this data I still don't support conditional HQ theory as proven truth. But it certainly is part of the reason why on very important, rare synths, I take my time to wait for conditions just in case.

The debate, as many have said, I'm sure, boils down to: neither position has actually been proven, and it's open to the crafter to synth in the manner that they so desire. I know I'm engaging in the hot-headed debate, but it needs not, as someone here said, be a matter of heated debate.

Don't put words in my mouth or anyone else's. And if you want to attack someone's "claims," try backing yours up first with something a bit more definitive. The one that you should really be aiming your arguments at is yourself.

And for skeetaru, I'll quote what I posted in the blow-up thread:

Be careful not to jump to typing too quick. I'm sure that that was the day that she was waiting for. If you're trying to quote on earthsday I think she was doing earthsday synth for sonic belt, since she was going for success and not HQ and that generally is what is supported by the whole conditional crafting success/hq theory. Most of the speculation in these conditions (that's right, I admit that all it is is speculation) assumes that crafting on the day of the crystal enhances success but reduces hq and break, whereas crafting on the day opposite of the crystal enhances hq but also breaks, and lowers success.

She was going for the HQ on this one, thus lightningsday for an earth crystal synth. I'm surprised that this evaded your attention, but now ya know, eh skeetaru? *skeet skeet skeet*

I'm not going to stagnate the thread and argue on this further. Respond as you want, but I think that what I've posted will be pretty clear to you both, despite you being potentially angry about it.

[Pyree]

I find it quite histerical that you take such offense in the fact that we don't believe in random superstitions.

And I'm sorry, but I just need to point this out:

Don't put words in my mouth or anyone else's.

Neither I nor Shizuka said that we believe that conditional HQ/success theory has been proven.

Hypocrite much?

Not to mention in that second quote it seems to me that you mislabeled Vegetaa's argument. Vegetaa was not arguing about whether crafting theories have been proven or not, but rather he was arguing whether crafting theories are true or not. How about you don't change his argument on him without his consent first, ok?

Now, I'll also go ahead and point out that if you try to claim that you simply slipped up and meant to say something more like "Neither I nor Shizuka said that we believe that conditional HQ/success theories are true," well that's simply wrong too. Shizuka made a clear implication that he believes in the superstitions:

I wasn't going for hq, in the pic you can see I was wearing terra staff facing nq direction.

lol, i'm stupid but not that stupid!! synthed on earthsday too.

It was just for the signature, so I wouldn't risk taking the hq measures neccessary. Don't think I've stated that I was trying for hq.

Those three quotes just wouldn't make sense coming from the mouth of someone that doesn't believe in the crafting theories.

[Scorp]

The only thing that has ever made me believe in crafting theories is that I only hq'd following the advice of the directional crafting. Then I realised that I had never not gone for HQ's without following it. Now i face moogle, ah or delivery box as appropriate and shock horror I get similar results.

With that being said i'm 0/245 on genie weskit so i'm clearly doing something wrong....

[Vic]

The only thing that has ever made me believe in crafting theories is that I only hq'd following the advice of the directional crafting. Then I realised that I had never not gone for HQ's without following it. Now i face moogle, ah or delivery box as appropriate and shock horror I get similar results.

With that being said i'm 0/245 on genie weskit so i'm clearly doing something wrong....

Until you go 0/331 then something is wrong.

[Shamaya]

Vegetaa was not arguing about whether crafting theories have been proven or not, but rather he was arguing whether crafting theories are true or not. How about you don't change his argument on him without his consent first, ok?

Be sure everyone will change their mind and stick to your theory, the day you bring some solid proof that you can get something better than the usual tier0-1-2-3 rates for your HQs, on a large enough sample of attempts.

Mentioned several times by him, as here, that he was concerned about the lack of proof for said theory. Even if he was had the aim at getting at whether said theory was true or not, there's nothing irrelevant about proof when discussing the subject of truth. To know something to be true is to have proof to substantiate it. Otherwise the thing can only be believed to be true rather than be known to be true. The issue of which theory is true is at the core an issue of what proof there is to substantiate either, which is why he brought up the concern of proof.

I can speak for myself and Shizuka because I know Shizuka. And I know that neither of us believe that we know conditional HQ theory to be true. We simply take occasional precautions since nothing has been proven to the contrary. On the other hand, Vegetaa knows neither I nor Shizuka, yet it seems quite clear that he believed that we believed in the conditional theory (at least from what his statements would indicate), and it seems that you also may to believe so without knowing so, though I don't doubt that those words sound like the words of someone who believes in said theory. But I find it likely that you'll agree with me that they also sound like the words of someone who takes precautions in the absence of a proven theory to the contrary, no?

But I am a hypocrite. I posted here when I said I would not do so again.

Reasonable enough, right Shoes-omg shoes?

[BerenTebogo]

No, to answer your question, 2304 is not a reasonable sample size for crafting, not even close, no no no no.

Do you realize that's probably the approximate number of synths that occur in whitegate + zahbi + home nation in one game day on any given server at any given time?

No, that's not an accurate sample size, no it doesn't mean anything, friend is currently compiling the results of graphed / charted data on every synth for the past 5 months between 100 Bone and 100 Leather (including going 10/11 amemet +1) His results are amazing, he interprets them like a fucking moron (22-25% moon is HQ time!) but that doesn't change that over about 15,000 synths total his HQ range is even with a very low Sdev across the board.

He's going to continue his charting of it all and when I can maybe convince him that waning 22% watersday is NOT HQ+50% and to stop being a tard, he can post his results as they may finally shut everyone the hell up.


And to those of you asking why we get offended? Because every other god damn day "Onepostchump#8436643 -> Hi I just hit 72 goldsmithing, I heard its expensive, what direction do I face to make phat lootz BG"

When the excess spill over from the 'tard plant stops coming to the crafting forums I'll chill, as will skeet and the others I'm sure but ffs if you want a pat on the back for holding onto rare materials and getting inventory-5 or whatever for 2 days here it is *pat* Now go the fuck away.

That being said ->
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...112_181410.png

Posting this ensures 100% that every LCer on Ifrit who reads this will be in my market by the end of the day, once and for all giving me a reason to not buy ridiculously jacked up wivre hides anymore. Done with this synth for a while, enjoy.