More pedophiles

[Kuya]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21206715/?GT1=10450

After the boy, then 11, was abducted at gunpoint while riding his bike in rural Washington County, Devlin took him to his apartment in suburban St. Louis and repeatedly sexually assaulted him. Days later, Devlin took Shawn back to Washington County in his pickup truck, apparently intent on killing the boy.

He said he pulled Shawn from his truck and began to strangle him. Shawn resisted.

“I attempted to kill (Shawn) and he talked me out of it,” Devlin said Tuesday.

Devlin stopped the choking, but then sexually assaulted the boy again. Prosecutors say it was at that point that Shawn told Devlin he would do whatever was asked of him to stay alive.

It was a “devil’s bargain” that kept Shawn under Devlin’s sway, even as the boy had phone and Internet access, said Shawn’s stepfather, Craig Akers.

“We know now the details that made him not run away,” Akers said after the hearings.

At the St. Louis County hearing, prosecutors said Devlin kept Shawn tied for weeks to a futon or a couch, with duct tape over his mouth. Devlin left the boy alone when he went to work at the pizzeria during the days and returned at night to sexually assault him.

Prosecutors said Devlin also made a videotape of himself torturing Shawn while the boy screamed for him to stop.

Devlin abducted Ben Ownby in rural Franklin County on Jan. 8. A schoolmate’s tip about a white pickup truck helped lead authorities to Devlin’s apartment, where Ben and Shawn were rescued Jan. 12 as Devlin, a pizzeria manager, worked the day shift at his shop.

Prosecutors said Devlin abused Ben every day before the boy was rescued.

Devlin’s attorneys said the evidence against him made a trial “impossible.” Attorney Michael Kielty specifically referred to the videotape prosecutors described

I just can't comprehend why a person would do this. This is far from just being an evil person, i don't believe in that crap. There is almost no logical way to see why a grown up man would be attracted to a child much less desire to rape him and or kill him. Has there been any research into the minds of pedophiles or something? This really has to be some sort of psychological malfunction.

[Bartylby]

rape's in general aren't about a sexual attraction, they are usually rage induced from said persons loss of power in their own past (from being molested) and are about power over the victim.

or in the other cases, as you said, a psychological dysfunction

[archibaldcrane]

rape's in general aren't about a sexual attraction, they are usually rage induced from said persons loss of power in their own past (from being molested) and are about power over the victim.

or in the other cases, as you said, a psychological dysfunction

That's pretty much it, except for the "usually rage-induced" part. This is just extreme.

[EternityEnd]

Damn, I had a huge post, but I hit Back. -_-

Almost no way a grown man would 'logically be attracted to a child', you say? Pedophilia is just another plane of orientation, it's obviously a completely natural thing-- Same with hetero and homosexuality. If you've researched it in any way, you'd know that being molested as a child often results in the molested becoming a pedophile, the same way being raised by women supposedly influences one's sexuality into the direction of being gay.

'Normal' people can and will be attracted to people as young as 15-- Biologically speaking, anyone who has progressed fair enough into puberty is fair game attraction wise, especially if you believe in human pheromones. That said, I do not support pedophilia in any way, and I think this bastard should get the death penalty. However, I'm looking at this logically.

Can you honestly say that you possess the magical ability to choose your orientation-- To change it? Laughable, believe me. I've tried.(I'm not straight.) Again this post was logic, not morality.

Edit; As for rape, It's either because society puts large taboos on being attracted to young people, and you thus can not get any legally, or it's some form of anger retalliation, not necessarily aimed at the target, but someone from the accused's past.

[Kuya]

Damn, I had a huge post, but I hit Back. -_-

Almost no way a grown man would 'logically be attracted to a child', you say? Pedophilia is just another plane of orientation, it's obviously a completely natural thing-- Same with hetero and homosexuality. If you've researched it in any way, you'd know that being molested as a child often results in the molested becoming a pedophile, the same way being raised by woman supposedly influences one's sexuality into the direction of being gay.

'Normal' people can and will be attracted to people as young as 15-- Biologically speaking, anyone who has progressed fair enough into puberty is fair game attraction wise, especially if you believe in human pheromones. That said, I do not support pedophilia in any way, and I think this bastard should get the death penalty. However, I'm looking at this logically.

Can you honestly say that you possess the magical ability to choose your orientation-- To change it? Laughable, believe me. I've tried.(I'm not straight.) Again this post was logic, not morality.

Yea, i've thought about it and i've read of pedophiles who are actually emotionaly invested in relationships with children, it's not just for the sexual part of it. The problem with pedophilia however, much like necrophilia and zoophilia(?) is that the object of desire is often times someone or something that cannot consent, and hence we have a problem. In homosexuality you have two consenting adults, however you could argue that both homosexuality and pedophilia might be mental malfunctions and not of the "norm". Both aren't unatural either, as some animals exhibit both behaviours.

The reason i chose to call it a malfunction was: Because if i started off the thread by looking as if i was defending pedophilia i would naturaly attract flames. Problem with calling pedophilia a malfunction and classifying it as a dicease can also apply to homosexuality, only diference is homosexuality is more "accepted". This is a really really complex topic.

Btw, clarrifying, i basicaly agreed with you, and as for my OP, reading it again and i see one could interpret is as be bitching about rape of children when you could easily question why a person would want to rape a grown woman also. In other words, i made a mistake including rape and pedophilia in the OP as they are both separate issues or at least somewhat separate.

[EternityEnd]

I wouldn't call them malfunctions, honestly, though I can see how one would draw that conclusion. As you said, we've witnessed animals whom are solely homosexual, but all animals are bisexual. This has been documented time and time again, and from this, we can naturally conclude that humans are inherintly bisexual, and are influences solely by their environment(same with animals-- their behaviour and characteristics rely entirely on their habitat) and, of course, society's taboos.(Because humans are an intelligent species.)

I don't necessarily believe we're all 50/50 bisexual, as that's simply not the case, but I am a firm believer that we're all bisexual.(Be it 90/10 or 30/70.) (At least, I can hope we're all bisexual, I hate unattainables. D

I don't like how people tie pedophilia and rape hand in hand-- Especially since teenagers specifically are much more intelligent than people credit them as. (Personally, I think the age of consent for males should be 15, and females 16. This may sound sexist, but females are more vulnerable, honestly. You don't typically see young men craving love with a passion, unfortunately. They're less likely to be taken advantage of, especially since men are greedy, sex-hungry pigs.) I think Pedophilia should be 14-15 and under, and only the term 'rape' should be used for ages above. I mean, I'm attracted to plenty of 15-16 year olds that might look older. Does that make me a pedophile? Of course not. Humans are simpy sexual beings.

Also, be prepared with your flame shield at your "Homosexuality is a malfunction" comment, it likely won't be met with understanding. Even though I'm bi-gay-something and understood it. ;o

[archibaldcrane]

Almost no way a grown man would 'logically be attracted to a child', you say? Pedophilia is just another plane of orientation, it's obviously a completely natural thing-- Same with hetero and homosexuality. If you've researched it in any way, you'd know that being molested as a child often results in the molested becoming a pedophile, the same way being raised by women supposedly influences one's sexuality into the direction of being gay.

Man, this is amazing. Being raised by women makes people gay? Let me subscribe to your newsletter sir.

Child-raping doesn't have to do with sexual attraction, it has to do with the feeling of loss of control, usually caused by trauma often of the same sort -after- birth. Arguing that societal influences like "being raised by women" cause men to be sexually attracted to their own gender is so fucking LOL that I have a feeling I'm being epically whooshed. Perhaps you could point me towards this "research" that you've found, since it's so compelling and easy to find about how gay people are "made".

Comparing gay people to pedophiles in this way shows such amazing ignorance of how either condition works that it's astonishing.

edit: Was that the kind of flaming you were expecting Eternityend?

[Charla]

Nirokun isn't going to complain about that. I think someone might complain about the "pedophilia is another plane of orientation" part though. There's deviant and there's deviant. Foot fetish guy is very different from 12-year-old fetish guy. And as Kuya said, Kobe is a very different kind of "rapist" from Devlin. note: I don't actually believe Kobe raped anything. It's in quotes because people just throw the word around in both situations.
Oh look, first flame hit while I was typing.

Anyone have that webcomic of Devlin going afk in his pt? I saw it in one of the old Devlin threads.

[blister1]

Wasn't this the guy who played FFXI?

[Kuya]

I'm kinda hoping the fact that i'm bi helps with that. But when i say flame shield i meant more along the lines of people not listening to a logical point of view and merely hoping on the morality bandwagon. I'm sure you realize most people won't even give what you and i said a second thought and merely decry it as evil. So i wanted to save myself that... frustration. No need to argue with a wall, but seing as how someone who is intelligent actually answered with a point of view close to mine, i decided to just drop that bullshit.

And i say malfunction, because from a certain point of view one could view the majority as the norm and anything outside of that as a malfunction. I stand on the idea that just because it's a "malfunction" it doesn't make it wrong. But of course this is me arguing from a heterosexual point of view, if i were to place myself on my actual point of view, which is the samething you said, all humans being somewhat bisexual, then i'd think even homosexuality is normal, but i wouldn't think so of pedophilia because i'm not pedophile. I don't usual mention the arguments that all people are biseuxal, as because i am in fact a bi, it sort of inmediatly makes people assume i'd be biased in that prospect, and they would be somewhat correct. And with what i mentioned before, it makes this whole thing seem as another argument based solely on points of views, where you see something as normal if you belong to that certain group. But just the same, from a "numerical" point of view, the majority would be the norm and therefore correct, problem is, would you consider everything that the majority does or believes in correct? And how do you discern when the majority is wrong?

[Kuya]

Comparing gay people to pedophiles in this way shows such amazing ignorance of how either condition works that it's astonishing.

I don't exactly agree with the whole being raised by women is one of the reasons for homosexuality, because i haven't seen such a claim made by any professionals as of yet. But does anyone at the moment even know for certain what makes someone gay? That is still largely in debate, and I very much doubt you, whom i presume to be straight, has a better idea than a gay guy and some bisexual.

[Dmitry]

My mom raised me til I was about 8 so I don't think the women raising males causing them to be homosexual can be true.

[Falconblade]

My mom raised me til I was about 8 so I don't think the women raising males causing them to be homosexual can be true.

Suddenly, through word of kneejerk, Influences becomes Causing.

Logically, it would make sense. Whether or not the science sides with logic is something to research.


Also, Whether looks really weird to me right now. Did I spell it right?

Also, thats a statement with nothing to back it up. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[archibaldcrane]

Comparing gay people to pedophiles in this way shows such amazing ignorance of how either condition works that it's astonishing.

I don't exactly agree with the whole being raised by women is one of the reasons for homosexuality, because i haven't seen such a claim made by any professionals as of yet. But does anyone at the moment even know for certain what makes someone gay? That is still largely in debate, and I very much doubt you, whom i presume to be straight, has a better idea than a gay guy and some bisexual.

Heh, I thought everyone was Bisexual? If gay guys had such a greater grasp on why they like who they like, why isn't there some sort of consensus, or at least a start? Gay guys know why they like cock as much as I know why I like pussy. Because it's fantastic. That's about it. Disregarding my opinion about gender identity because I identify as heterosexual is a total copout. Straight guys have a gender identity also, and my thoughts of "why people are straight" are the same as my opinions of "why people are gay". (for reference, the Pre-natal hormone theory is what makes the most sense to me)

As far as how people fall in the gay-straight spectrum, I'm a pretty firm believer in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale

Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual. The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories... The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects.

While emphasising the continuity of the gradations between exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual histories, it has seemed desirable to develop some sort of classification which could be based on the relative amounts of heterosexual and homosexual experience or response in each history... An individual may be assigned a position on this scale, for each period in his life.... A seven-point scale comes nearer to showing the many gradations that actually exist." (Kinsey, et al. (1948). pp. 639, 656)

[Kuya]

Heh, I thought everyone was Bisexual? If gay guys had such a greater grasp on why they like who they like, why isn't there some sort of consensus, or at least a start? Gay guys know why they like cock as much as I know why I like pussy. Because it's fantastic. That's about it. Tossing out my opinion about gender identity because I identify as heterosexual is a total copout. Straight guys have a gender identity also, and my thoughts of "why people are straight" are the same as my opinions of "why people are gay". (for reference, the Pre-natal hormone theory is what makes the most sense to me)

If i believed in the everyone being bisexual theory being 100% correct, then your sarcasm would have a point, not to mention:

I don't usualy mention the arguments that all people are biseuxal, as because i am in fact a bi, it sort of inmediatly makes people assume i'd be biased in that prospect, and they would be somewhat correct.

If i hold myself to that, what makes you think i wouldn't do the same to you?

And yea, i've read the hormone theory, and it makes sense to me also. Even though it sort of does make homosexuality and bisexuality into an error, sort of...

Edit: On second thought, not so much of an error if this hormone supressing affects a majority of the human population, which if true, would then justify the bisexuality theory.

[Nirokun!]

how did i get pulled into this ?

[archibaldcrane]

And yea, i've read the hormone theory, and it makes sense to me also. Even though it sort of does make homosexuality and bisexuality into an error, sort of...

Edit: On second thought, not so much of an error if these hormone supressents affect a majority of the human population, which if true, would then justify the bisexuality theory.

Ha, went to quote you and you got your edit in there. And yes, exactly - hormones, different levels, shades of grey between cock and pussy, and it's not about "error" - all fetuses are exposed to hormones. Homosexuality is only an error if Heterosexuality is the goal. Contrary to all the "it's unnatural!!!!" right-wing nutjobs out there, the further pre-natal hormone theory develops, the closer it becomes to being "natural". Blame those evil wombs, they are the devil's playground.

[archibaldcrane]

how did i get pulled into this ?

Because you're a pedophile, of course. Or was it homosexual? I can't remember, I mean they're basically both the same right - just different planes of orientation!

[EternityEnd]

Almost no way a grown man would 'logically be attracted to a child', you say? Pedophilia is just another plane of orientation, it's obviously a completely natural thing-- Same with hetero and homosexuality. If you've researched it in any way, you'd know that being molested as a child often results in the molested becoming a pedophile, the same way being raised by women supposedly influences one's sexuality into the direction of being gay.

Man, this is amazing. Being raised by women makes people gay? Let me subscribe to your newsletter sir.

Child-raping doesn't have to do with sexual attraction, it has to do with the feeling of loss of control, usually caused by trauma often of the same sort -after- birth. Arguing that societal influences like "being raised by women" cause men to be sexually attracted to their own gender is so fucking LOL that I have a feeling I'm being epically whooshed. Perhaps you could point me towards this "research" that you've found, since it's so compelling and easy to find about how gay people are "made".

Comparing gay people to pedophiles in this way shows such amazing ignorance of how either condition works that it's astonishing.

edit: Was that the kind of flaming you were expecting Eternityend?

Your ignorance knows no bounds, good sir. I never said being raised by woman makes one gay-- It's merely widespread speculation. Nor did I say being molested as a child makes one a pedophile, but it can. Are you reading what you want to incite drama, or what? I don't understand. Certain things contribute to certain things-- That's a fact. No one knows what makes people attracted to members of the same sex-- Nor what makes people attracted to children. It's speculation.

The sooner you get over your animosity towards harmless theorizing, the better. There was also a study showing-- And yes, there was actually a study-- that each biological older brother one has, the more likely one is to be gay. This was contributed to something attacking the unborn fetus, altering it's brain and masculinity(Or something, I don't remember it in detail.) Is it true? Who can say. I, personally, was raised by woman and have 2 older brothers. I'm bi-gay. Oh shit, right? It could be coincidence, I don't know or care. I'm merely highlighting professional and public thoughts on the matter.

Go look at criminal statistics if you want my proof behind the child molester cycle.

I'd hardly call my standpoint on the matter ignorant-- I've personally delved into the theories and facts, and I also have a lot of personal experience with the matter. (Because, as I've stated numerous times, I'm, for lack of a better word, gay.)

If you think I would relate myself to a pedophile, you're stupid.

Edit: orite, Just to add some lulz to this discussion, here is a bit of info on myself:

I'm gay. I do not dress flamboyantly, with anklets and bracelets with eyeliner to tie it all up. I do not speak effeminently, or with a lisp. I have a deep voice. I don't have feminine or angular features. I don't listen to Madona, or even know one of her songs, or even hair color. (I really don't.) I don't crossdress. (How I loath this stereotype.) Oh, and I don't have a limp wrist, or whatever.

...But I do enjoy romantic comedies, and The View, since most woman are most intelligent than men. <_< Oh shi--

[EternityEnd]

how did i get pulled into this ?

Because you're a pedophile, of course. Or was it homosexual? I can't remember, I mean they're basically both the same right - just different planes of orientation!

You obviously don't understand what orientation is, and how they're absolutely not related to one another.

You can be attracted to males. - That's an orientation.

You can be attracted to females. - That's an orientation.

You can be attracted to transgender people for all I care. - That's somewhat of an orientation.

It only falls to logic to conclude that being attracted to Children be an orientation too. Is being gay the same as being straight? Uh, no, obviously. Your sarcasm wasn't in taste, sorry.