More pedophiles

[archibaldcrane]

Links to studies about parentage affecting rates of homosexuality or gtfo. Seriously. You claim to do all this "research" but don't post anything to back it up. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_ ... rientation is theorized as a contributor to the pre-natal hormone theory, suggesting that as the womb changes after each birth it affects the environment that each subsequent fetus gestates in. You are making claims that post-birth environment affects sexual orientation, and comparing it to the understood and accepted sexual trauma being a frequent contributing factor to pedophilia, but you aren't providing any evidence of the former, and that is harmful to the conversation. You've had about as much personal experience with how life affects gender identity as I have, or as anyone else in this thread has - since EVERYONE has a gender identity.

Be back later.

[archibaldcrane]

how did i get pulled into this ?

Because you're a pedophile, of course. Or was it homosexual? I can't remember, I mean they're basically both the same right - just different planes of orientation!

You obviously don't understand what orientation is, and how they're absolutely not related to one another.

You can be attracted to males. - That's an orientation.

You can be attracted to females. - That's an orientation.

You can be attracted to transgender people for all I care. - That's somewhat of an orientation.

It only falls to logic to conclude that being attracted to Children be an orientation too. Is being gay the same as being straight? Uh, no, obviously. Your sarcasm wasn't in taste, sorry.

And you keep mistaking pedophilia as a sexual issue. It's not. It's a power issue, and that's why your "sexual orientation" categorization fails. Pedophiles don't look at at 7 year old like I did at Britney when she released "Oops I did it again".

[Charismatic]

how did i get pulled into this ?

Because you're a pedophile, of course. Or was it homosexual? I can't remember, I mean they're basically both the same right - just different planes of orientation!

You obviously don't understand what orientation is, and how they're absolutely not related to one another.

You can be attracted to males. - That's an orientation.

You can be attracted to females. - That's an orientation.

You can be attracted to transgender people for all I care. - That's somewhat of an orientation.

It only falls to logic to conclude that being attracted to Children be an orientation too. Is being gay the same as being straight? Uh, no, obviously. Your sarcasm wasn't in taste, sorry.

And you keep mistaking pedophilia as a sexual issue. It's not. It's a power issue, and that's why your "sexual orientation" categorization fails. Pedophiles don't look at at 7 year old like I did at Britney when she released "Oops I did it again".

Explain Child Pornography.

[Falconblade]

how did i get pulled into this ?

Because you're a pedophile, of course. Or was it homosexual? I can't remember, I mean they're basically both the same right - just different planes of orientation!

You obviously don't understand what orientation is, and how they're absolutely not related to one another.

You can be attracted to males. - That's an orientation.

You can be attracted to females. - That's an orientation.

You can be attracted to transgender people for all I care. - That's somewhat of an orientation.

It only falls to logic to conclude that being attracted to Children be an orientation too. Is being gay the same as being straight? Uh, no, obviously. Your sarcasm wasn't in taste, sorry.

And you keep mistaking pedophilia as a sexual issue. It's not. It's a power issue, and that's why your "sexual orientation" categorization fails. Pedophiles don't look at at 7 year old like I did when at Britney when she released "Oops I did it again".

Pedophelia is sexual attraction towards a child. Nothing more. It is not about power in most cases(Although in some cases it could be). Rape is about power, as you said before(was it you?)

Now, you can go segue into a rape argument by saying pedophilia is by law rape, but lets not, as its a fucking bore.

[EternityEnd]

Pedophilia is not about Power, rape is. Pedophiles are not necessarily rapists, get your common sense straight. Want studies? Fine. Give me a minute. Taken from wiki:

Facts on innate bisexuality amongst animals

In 1993, Dean Hamer found the genetic marker Xq28 on the X chromosome. Hamer's study found a link between the Xq28 marker and male homosexuality,[76] but the original study's results have been disputed.[77] Several mutations have been identified in flies, such as changes in the fruitless gene, cause male flies to court and attempt to mate with other males; however, when a modified male fruit fly is isolated with only female fruit flies, then he will attempt to mate with them.[78]

Suggests that it's indeed biological:

Twin studies give indications that male homosexuality is genetically mediated. One common type of twin study compares the monozygotic (or identical) twins of people possessing a particular trait to the dizygotic (non-identical, or fraternal) twins of people possessing the trait. Bailey and Pillard (1991) in a study of gay twins found that 52% of monozygotic brothers and 22% of the dizygotic twins were concordant for homosexuality.[79] Bailey, Dunne and Martin (2000) used the Australian twin registry to obtain a sample of 4,901 twins

Here is the brother study:

There is evidence from numerous studies that gay men tend to have more older brothers than do straight men.[108] One reported that each older brother increases the odds of being gay by 33%. [109]

To explain this finding, it has been proposed that male fetuses provoke a maternal immune reaction that becomes stronger with each successive male fetus.[108] Male fetuses produce H-Y antigens which are "almost certainly" involved in the sexual differentiation of vertebrates.[108] It is this antigen which maternal H-Y antibodies are proposed to both react to and 'remember.' Successive male fetuses are then attacked by H-Y antibodies which somehow decrease the ability of H-Y antigens to perform their usual function in brain masculinization. This is now known as the fraternal birth order effect. There is a link to homosexuality only if the older brothers were biologically related and even when they were not raised together.[citation needed] Interestingly, this relation seems to hold only for right-handed males.[110] There has been no observed equivalent for women.

Environmental theorizations the you so desperately shun:

There is some evidence that gay men report having had less loving and more rejecting fathers, and closer relationships with their mothers, than straight men.[111] Whether this phenomenon is a cause of homosexuality, or whether parents behave this way in response to gender-variant traits in a child, is unclear.[112][113]

One researcher's Exotic Becomes Erotic theory theorizes that some children will prefer activities that are typical of the other sex and that this will make a gender-conforming child feel different from opposite-sex children, while gender-nonconforming children will feel different from children of their own sex, which may evoke physiological arousal when the child is near members of the sex which it considers as being "different", which will later be transformed into sexual arousal.

More on Innate Bisexuality:

Innate bisexuality (or predisposition to bisexuality) is a term introduced by Sigmund Freud (based on work by his associate Wilhelm Fliess) that expounds that all humans are born bisexual but through psychological development (which includes both external and internal factors) become monosexual, while the bisexuality remains in a latent state.

Alfred Kinsey's studies, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male[29] and Sexual Behavior in the Human Female[114], found that the majority of humans have had homosexual experiences or sensations and are bisexual. The Kinsey Reports found that approximately four percent of adult Americans were predominantly gay or lesbian for their entire lives, and approximately 10 percent were predominantly gay or lesbian for some portion of their lives.[115]

Some studies have disputed Kinsey's methodology and have suggested that these reports overstated the occurrence of bisexuality and homosexuality in human populations. "His figures were undermined when it was revealed that he had disproportionately interviewed homosexuals and prisoners (many sex offenders)."[116][117]

I hope that's enough to silence you, I can dig up more if you wish. Do note that I copy+pasted all of that, and didn't read through every sentence, though I have previously.

[Kuya]

The thing is, they put pedophiles through the same treatments as they did homosexuals, to see if they could "fix" them, the results were the same as with the homosexuals, they couldn't change them. If pedophilia isn't sexual, and rather caused by trauma, then it should be curable as most other traumas can be, but it's not. What exactly is pedophilia then? As i've stated before, some have actualy had possitive relationships with children, as oppossed to the violent rapists we hear so much about.

At first i wanted to found out what caused it to see if we could cure it, but then i was reminded of what that sounded like...

[Nirokun!]

does homosexuality hurt the people involved? not more than conventional relationships for the most part. cure it? no.

does pedophilia hurt the people involved? very likely. the imbalance of power and often abuse of power often leads to an overall bad situation. cure it? maybe. prevent it? definately.

im not knocking what other people are interested in; however, when what you're interested in hurts someone without their consent (covering my ass for your sadists and masochists out there), it is not a healthy activity to play out in real life. continue with your fantasies to your heart's desire, but recognize that any real action is not acceptable.

im tired, going to sleep

DONT PULL ME INTO THREADS BE NICE TO EACHOTHER

[Shalyn]

Niko said what I was thinking. I can't imagine comparing sexual preference to pedophilia when the latter is painful and scarring to the sexual partner. Are we then saying that rape is a sexual preference? It's definately a 'preference', but borne in the psyche through unusual and painful experiences and/or chemical imbalances. That said, there are people who go opposite and enjoy a 'painful' and dominant position over others, but unless there is consent, it's wrong. You can have your fantasies, but understand that there's a line between your imagination and the real world, and crossing it can have dire consequences.

[archibaldcrane]

If this:

There is some evidence that gay men report having had less loving and more rejecting fathers, and closer relationships with their mothers, than straight men.[111] Whether this phenomenon is a cause of homosexuality, or whether parents behave this way in response to gender-variant traits in a child, is unclear.[112][113]

is the rung upon which you hang statements like this:

Same with hetero and homosexuality. If you've researched it in any way, you'd know that being molested as a child often results in the molested becoming a pedophile, the same way being raised by women supposedly influences one's sexuality into the direction of being gay.

you plainly see why I took umbrage with the off the cuff attitude of your haughty assumption. The evidence is there, and it's astonishing, for child molesters. It's just not there for homosexuality. Both the link you draw between the two, and the "well, if you've researched it in any way, it's clear and obvious to all involved" attitude you brought to it, make me cringe. You treat the parental upbringing link as clear and present fact when that couldn't be further from the case, and that twisting of science to support a dubious point really does in fact bother me. Do you understand why I had a problem with it?

Also, for the people that think that your local NAMBLA member doesn't get sexually excited about the extreme power imbalance between a 7-year old and a full-grown adult, and just in fact sees little kids as "hot" like I see Jessica Alba...no, just no. I have my own issues with desire to sexualize power imbalance in relationships, and for those that need children to live out their desires to be in control, you have my sympathy - it must really suck - but that sympathy extends right up until the child is touched. It's about power imbalance - something that can be really hot in the right situation, kids of course is not that - but that is the turn on, don't fool yourselves.

[Weeks]

Wasn't this the guy who played FFXI?

Yeah, when he was arrested he said something to the tune of his biggest regret was that he had no access to FFXI while in jail.

[EternityEnd]

Hey, look, I'm not trying to relate them in any way-- They aren't related. You pushed that on me, it's not my point of view, and stop picking on individual sentences in masses of paragraphs. I'm not saying pedophilia isn't harmful-- It is, very much so. I'm not attempting to justify it, sanction it, or anything.

However, when you say that children are not their preference, that's just an ignorant statement. They obviously are, they're obviously attracted to them, and they obviously always will be. There's absolutely no cure, that's like saying there's a cure for being straight, bisexual, or gay. It's your damn preference, hardwired into your brain. I'm not asking to recategorize pedophilia under a sexuality, that's just ridiculous. I'm just asking you to stop being stubborn and say it's their preference, like you already have in passing, and it's not rape. If they don't act on it, it technically is not rape. Get that out of your head.

Again, I realize the evidence, which you contested at first, is factual for children who were molested. I also realize that everything even remotely about homosexuality and it's cause is theory-- Or maybe it doesn't even have a cause, heterosexuality doesn't. I don't know, and I don't claim to. I put them in sentences together to shorten them, thinking, however foolishly, that you could read like a sane person.

I also do not think, personally, that being raised by women makes one gay or even influences it in the slightest. It might make it easier to come out, but I don't believe in post-birth influences of sexuality.(I do think the sibling explanation deserves more studies, though, as it seems plausable.) I still acknowledge that it could possibly be a factor, though. Just like I'm agnostic-- Nothing is impossible. I, however, won't believe it until hard facts are present.

Don't try and label me as someone who believes homosexuality is some form of disease, as I'm a fierce combatent of those who do think that. It makes me mad how violently you warp what Kuya and I have been saying.

To be frank, I couldn't care less if the media crucified pedophiles by relating them immediately to rapists. I do get irritated when you try and pass it off as fact, though. Pedophilia is sexual attraction to young children, nothing more. It's not a power trip-- You're looking way too far into things. Rape is a power trip in most cases, yes. Does pedophilia often contain rape? Yes, but it isn't rape by definition. Rape is. I can't get much clearer than that.

I really hope that cleared things up, if you have any other criticisms, let me know. >_>

Edit: Oh, right. I don't claim to have researched any of this, I claim to have researched research. There's a difference-- I don't study this for a living, I'm pretty sure you don't either. I'm also pretty sure you didn't contribute to those studies in any way, shape or form. I didn't either. I have no personal experience researching the brains of any sexuality, you don't either. Excuse me if I did look into this topic (Specifically homosexuality's possible causes, not pedophilia) previously in my life, when I was so depressed about being gay, trying to find out if it really was wrong. Which it isn't, but that's another debate all together.

[Khamsin]

Wasn't this the guy who played FFXI?

Yeah, when he was arrested he said something to the tune of his biggest regret was that he had no access to FFXI while in jail.

Was this Blacknova, or something-Ice, or which one? I forget.

By the way, regarding "Devlin’s attorneys said the evidence against him made a trial “impossible.”"... what exactly do attorneys do when they don't believe they can defend someone? Since everyone is legally entitled to representation, even if no one would take the case, there's still the public defender. So somebody still has to end up defending a guy they know they can't defend. Do they just put up a weak defense, knowing they can't win? Could the defendant then ask for a mistrial because he wasn't adequately and competently represented?

[Ziegus]

Wasn't this the guy who played FFXI?

Yeah, when he was arrested he said something to the tune of his biggest regret was that he had no access to FFXI while in jail.

Was this Blacknova, or something-Ice, or which one? I forget.

Yeah, that was Blacknova. Boy the hours flew by at work reading that thread.

[Weeks]

Different people. As I recall, Blacknova had the charges dropped and was just sharing kiddy porn, not abducting, raping, and torturing anyone. This guy's name was Devlin and he had an endgame shell on some server.

[archibaldcrane]

stuff

What I don't understand is this - you're a gay guy. You did the gay guy thing of discovering you're gay, spending some time saying "WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY", doing some research into how "this" happened, coming to terms, etc. Don't you ever get sick of people trying to equate "origins of homosexuality" with "origins of pedophilia"? Especially since you believe that the origins are ...well, totally different? I just don't understand why you'd bring up some half-cocked theory about maternal parentage that you don't even believe as a weak comparison to pedophila-creation (in that they are both life events that incur some sort of causation). There has been so much hate-mongering towards the gay community in recent years using these same comparisons - treating homosexuality as another aberration like pedophilia, bestiality, etc. "should we just let people marry animals too? why stop with gays?", when the evidence continues to point to human sexual gender preference being on a sliding scale and determined by birth, while pedophilia is so frequently caused by psychological trauma. Your first post was in some ways the exact opposite of what you're saying now - I don't know if you have changed opinions, or you were playing devil's advocate, or what.

Anyway, people who are sexually attracted to the power imbalance of an adult-child relationship, or pedophiles as I like to call them, are not all rapists. Some just have thoughts and look at pictures and what not. I'm...not sure what made you think I thought otherwise. I still disagree with you on why pedos are attracted to children, but I don't think that disagreement is going to resolve itself on this videogame forum.

At least we're a lot closer now than we seemingly were to start this thread.

[Khamsin]

Wasn't this the guy who played FFXI?

Yeah, when he was arrested he said something to the tune of his biggest regret was that he had no access to FFXI while in jail.

Was this Blacknova, or something-Ice, or which one? I forget.

Yeah, that was Blacknova. Boy the hours flew by at work reading that thread.

And to think people doubted it, thinking that the charges weren't really for actual sexual abuse of children and were just for a mistakenly downloaded child porn video off limewire.

Well, now that the truth is out, he's in for some real shit from the FFXI community, now.

[EternityEnd]

stuff

What I don't understand is this - you're a gay guy. You did the gay guy thing of discovering you're gay, spending some time saying "WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY", doing some research into how "this" happened, coming to terms, etc. Don't you ever get sick of people trying to equate "origins of homosexuality" with "origins of pedophilia"? Especially since you believe that the origins are ...well, totally different? I just don't understand why you'd bring up some half-cocked theory about maternal parentage that you don't even believe as a weak comparison to pedophila-creation (in that they are both life events that incur some sort of causation). There has been so much hate-mongering towards the gay community in recent years using these same comparisons - treating homosexuality as another aberration like pedophilia, bestiality, etc. "should we just let people marry animals too? why stop with gays?", when the evidence continues to point to human sexual gender preference being on a sliding scale and determined by birth, while pedophilia is so frequently caused by psychological trauma. Your first post was in some ways the exact opposite of what you're saying now - I don't know if you have changed opinions, or you were playing devil's advocate, or what.

Anyway, people who are sexually attracted to the power imbalance of an adult-child relationship, or pedophiles as I like to call them, are not all rapists. Some just have thoughts and look at pictures and what not. I'm...not sure what made you think I thought otherwise. I still disagree with you on why pedos are attracted to children, but I don't think that disagreement is going to resolve itself on this videogame forum.

At least we're a lot closer now than we seemingly were to start this thread.

My opinion hasn't really changed at all. I think pedophiles are creepy little fucks, personally, but that doesn't mean I can't talk about the subject from a 3rd party perspective. I'm still on the fence of wether I think pedophiles are born that way or created through massive mental trauma-- Or both. It's obvious some have had massive psychological difficulties in the past, possibly/probably leading to their attractions.. From that aspect, you almost have to sympathize with them(Or maybe I watch too much Law & Order SVU), and yet some were, I'm sure, brought up by well-to-do families. I don't understand their attractions are why they do it-- Hell, I don't understand what's attractive about the female form. I hate pedobears as much as you do, I'm just trying to understand how they got to where they are.

Where I disagree with you is the fact that you think they're attracted to the imbalance of power-- I don't think so. I think they probably can't help their attractions, but I mean, it's still morally wrong to be attracted to children. Rapists are attracted to the power of the situation, which is why most target young women. Some rapists, even if they're straight, target children for that source of power. Does that make them attracted to children? No, not really, I would imagine. They're, like we said, attracted to power and the helplessness of their victims. I see them as two different things, legit pedophiles and rapists, until they collide and become each other.

On another note-- I'm seriously not relating them at all, I'm just trying to use examples, and none but ones that involve sex fit well. To be quite honest, I've never even heard of people relating homosexuality and pedophilia, I certainly wasn't trying to. I mean, that's just incorrect. >_> Guys being attracted to/fucking other guys is hardly the same as someone molesting a child. That's a ridiculous notion, to relate them like that. However, all of this involves sex and attraction, be it to children or power, so it's easy to make examples where I have experience. I mean, I obviously have no experience being a pedophile.

For example: I could have sex with a woman, easily, but does that mean I'm attracted to them? No. It means I'm a desperate whore for pleasure, lol. I don't think rapists have to be attracted to whom they prey on, they just do it for a sense of power. Whereas pedophiles are supposed to be attracted to children. I mean, some are, go look up interviews with them. This is where Rapists and Pedophiles split. Both are wrong in my opinion, I'm just rationolizing the situation.

If you didn't like that example of a gay guy having sex with a woman: A guy could have sex with another guy, purely for orgasm, and yet not be attracted to them at all. Same thing. I mean, not to pick on the military, but one can only imagine what those horny, college-age guys in Iraq and Afghanistan do? Abstain from sex for 4++ years? That's impossible. Lol.

Again, I'm not relating pedophilia to homosexuality, I'm just trying to use what I've had experience with as examples, instead of pulling shit out my ass.

Also: I was trying to use all.. plausable theories on the matter, if you'd look, I brought up multiple theories. And like I said, I don't believe being raised by women effects sexuality at all. The only one that I could... Maybe, maybe see was the sibling one, at least it used scientific theories instead of "well, since all gay guys are effeminite little Kujos.." I'm not sure what you don't understand.

[Khamsin]

Simple way to test would be to group pedophiles by how their household was growing up.

Put pedophiles that grew up in troubled homes in one category, and the ones that grew up in perfectly normal households in another, and see if it's even between the two. If there's just as many pedophiles that grew up in a normal household with a normal family as there are pedophiles that grew up in troubled households with an abnormal family that abused and/or molested them (or other members of the family), then it's safe to say that they're born that way.

If there's more pedophiles from troubled homes with abnormal family relationships than there are from normal homes with normal family relationships, then they're not born that way.

[Nirokun!]

fuck

all this talk of the imbalance of power is hot

THIS IS WHY I LIKE HUGE MEN, BUILD LIKE TALL BRICK WALLS

omg, so hot, omg

omg.

[EternityEnd]

I dunno, I mean, it's a fact most endure massive psychological trauma, especially those who were raped as a child. I think they're probably created through childhood rapes, or something along those lines.

Or maybe I really, really watch too much SVU.