Questions about Detonator

[Delekii]

Aside from the marginal melee dmg on birds (and the irrelevant dmg on mamools/trolls) my parses are usually all WS dmg and its rare that I won't get a WS off on just about every mob outside of a roll cycle/fix, with M.Kris + haste + double attack + march the tp gain is just goofy. With fold, snake eye and capped winning streak, the roll interruptions are kept to a minimum, but they're always the first priority. On mamools this typically results in a 15-20% parse, but on birds it can go north of 25% considering that the weaponskill alone should be doing ~20%, and in certain pts can do over 40% (this is why the BRD + COR + COR pt was so damn hilarious, samurai/hunter's roll were added without sacrificing anything and we kept running out of birds).

That sounds unrealistically high, unless you have some really weak melee DD. Sure the WS might do ~20% of the mob, but 2 minutes out of 5 you don't have berserk, at least 1 minute you don't have one of your melee rolls, there will be unavoidable times where you miss songs, WS (even detonator) completely miss hurting your bottom line... I would venture to say that if you achieve 25% damage as a cor something is pretty wrong with the party.

[Darus Grey]

20ish% out of 3-4 DDs is realistic for what a top geared cor should be doing in a merit party if they're not pulling.

[doofy]

That sounds unrealistically high, unless you have some really weak melee DD.

In what I consider a crappy pt (which is most of the pickup crap I have to sift through until I can change back to Asura) its even worse. In a sub par pt I can get 2 WS off and if that happens on more than a fluke mob (Lurker, etc.) I leave, its not worth the time / consumables. If you're going to consider yourself a DD, even as a COR, you need to try and put up something in the neighborhood of 20%, otherwise focus on support/pulling. Great DD's will put up 35-40%, half of that on a job that spams ranged WS's with 2 "B" weapons isn't unrealistic. Best PT setups I've had are 2 or 3 exceptional DD's with myself cleaning up whatever is left with a WS. There are times where I'll get TP just as Evoker's wears, I'll run back and roll, then immediately turn around and fire to finish the mob then double up if need be before the next fight starts. Can COR be one of those 35-40% DD's?, outside of the Colibri BRD COR COR Slugfest I've had once, no and thats an unrealistic expectation atm.

Sure the WS might do ~20% of the mob, but 2 minutes out of 5 you don't have berserk, at least 1 minute you don't have one of your melee rolls, there will be unavoidable times where you miss songs, WS (even detonator) completely miss hurting your bottom line... I would venture to say that if you achieve 25% damage as a cor something is pretty wrong with the party.

This is why I spam detonator in standard BRD + COR setups, it doesn't miss spamming @ 100(200)tp and while zerk is helpful the "2x ranged attack" after the patch means you'll be dropping around 1k without needing every single attack buff active. Most of the time two out of three will be active, which is enough. If you're unlucky and have periods of time where none of them are active outside of an "O Shi....!" moment I don't know what to tell you other than to start using Recast/etc. if you aren't already.

20ish% out of 3-4 DDs is realistic for what a top geared cor should be doing in a merit party if they're not pulling.

Bingo, especially on mobs where you're getting the piercing bonus for both of your weapons. Don't be stingy with QD either, especially if you don't have to hold it for pulling/dispel, over the course of a good pt it adds up.

-Vyzrael (Kujata)

[Delekii]

Put up some parsers and gear then please, because if you are doing 25% damage in a party of 3 DDs + you, you might as well just kick one of the DDs and get another COR. In fact, if cor can pull 25% damage, then there is no point getting other DDs at all, right? Get 3 cors, a nin to voke, and have 6 rolls and 2 songs.

Like I said, if you are pulling 25% even on birds, you need to get better other DDs. Even 20% sounds too high to be consistently getting, since your rolls alone should be adding more than 5% efficacy to the party as a whole. Assuming you are getting 20%, that leaves only 80% to be split between 3 full time DDs, or under 27% each.

I have no doubt COR can pull 25%, and I have done it before myself. But you have to take the rest of your party into consideration and there is just no way that in a top geared, top tier party a COR can do 25% damage. If they can, the game is broken and needs to be fixed.

[doofy]

Put up some parsers and gear then please, because if you are doing 25% damage in a party of 3 DDs + you, you might as well just kick one of the DDs and get another COR.

Standard BRD + COR + RDM with 2 great DDs doing 40%/40%, COR cleaning up the rest along with whatever the 6th person is doing. Replacing a 35-40% DD with a 20-25% COR is pointless, putting another COR in the sixth slot if you already have at least 2 top DDs potentially isnt. BRD COR COR RDM DD/NIN/SAM DD/NIN/SAM on birds, give it a shot if you know another DD COR who doesn't melee with T.Kukri's / tries to shoot for TP with a martial / etc., I know of maybe 2 on my current server so it's hard to do.

In fact, if cor can pull 25% damage, then there is no point getting other DDs at all, right? Get 3 cors, a nin to voke, and have 6 rolls and 2 songs

Have you tried this with other good DD CORs on birds?, its not as far fetched as you think. Not trying to start an argument because most (not all) people have it in their heads that a COR can't push more than 10-12%. After breaking stigmas with both THF + PUP and having nothing more than casual playime now I'm long past the point of giving a shit. I'm not trying to comment on your own personal output, just making observations based on what I've seen with the job coming at it from a DD perspective.

Edit - I agree, if there are 4 DD's and I'm pulling 20-25%, at least one of the DD's blows ass. If there are 2 great DDs and I'm the third its a fight for the scraps left from the 2 main DDs between myself and the sixth person. Normally this ends up being 35-35-15-15 if the other person is marginal or 35-35-20-10 (or less) if its a nin getting their food eaten all the time, or some random douche. If its on birds, with the double piercing bonus its fast enough to eat into the % from the top tier DDs (most of them don't get the bonus) so my % goes up. I've only had a handful of pts with relic holders/etc., since I know virtually no one on my current server, we had to wait on birds, it was that fast. You may pt only with LS relics/whatever, I don't have that luxury atm.

-Vyzrael (Kujata)

[Delekii]

Put up some parsers and gear then please, because if you are doing 25% damage in a party of 3 DDs + you, you might as well just kick one of the DDs and get another COR.

Standard BRD + COR + RDM with 2 great DDs doing 40%/40%, COR cleaning up the rest along with whatever the 6th person is doing. Replacing a 35-40% DD with a 20-25% COR is pointless, putting another COR in the sixth slot if you already have at least 2 top DDs potentially isnt. BRD COR COR RDM DD/NIN/SAM DD/NIN/SAM on birds, give it a shot if you know another DD COR who doesn't melee with T.Kukri's / tries to shoot for TP with a martial / etc., I know of maybe 2 on my current server so it's hard to do.
-Vyzrael (Kujata)

Ok, well thats fine, but it isn't what I would consider ideal. If you have a COR BRD RDM 3dd party, the aim isn't to have 2 35% DDs and change, its to have 3 good DDs. Like I said, I'm sure you can pull off 25% as a cor and I have done in the past, but it relies on someone else not picking up that slack.

[toqabowl]

what about heavy shot, ive alwys been able to get higher numbers(just a lil bit higher) w/ that WS than detonator

edit: @100~%tp i mean

[doofy]

Ok, well thats fine, but it isn't what I would consider ideal. If you have a COR BRD RDM 3dd party, the aim isn't to have 2 35% DDs and change, its to have 3 good DDs. Like I said, I'm sure you can pull off 25% as a cor and I have done in the past, but it relies on someone else not picking up that slack.

If we're talking "ideal", I guess I've just pt'd with too many "balls out" DDs. A lot of them, including myself when I used to play THF, get quite pissed if they parse below 30-35% with BRD + COR buffs. So in these situations, yeah you're going to be trying to get whatever scraps you can if you have three performing up to par. The point is, you can already have the RDM COR BRD backline, or even a RDM BRD BRD backline, and 2 of these good DDs, and if the COR DD is good enough they can be the third DD to pick up the leftovers. This is what usually results in high chains / 20-30% COR DD parse with no slacking / 6 buffs and 2 pullers if necessary. If the COR keeps up in this situation, it doesn't mean that the other people are gimp, its just means that the COR is actually being a DD. Hopefully these setups become more common because its one of the few ways left to improve xp/hr, but people just don't want to level the job for whatever reason. Its hard enough finding one COR that knows what they're doing, let alone two at the same time.

However, with COR BRD RDM + 3 pickup DDs, if the COR isn't one of the three DDs and is parsing north of 25%, then yeah you're right and at least one of the three DDs blows. My reference with the job is almost all pickups due to my toon getting server jumped after I "quit", so this happens a lot and I deal with a lot of garbage. The normal pick up stuff I have to deal with usually means at least one DD is going to be subpar, which means my numbers pick up their slack in these situations, and unfortunately outside of LS based xp its the average for most meripos.

what about heavy shot, ive alwys been able to get higher numbers(just a lil bit higher) w/ that WS than detonator

No idea, COR doesn't get access to it.

-Vyzrael (Kujata)