Fishing

[tsaroth816]

Can we get Arthars to chime in if this is really a hoax? I think he and his wife have sign+overwhelming, and he fished a ton before w/o it

[Arthars]

i tried but tbh the sample size is way too low to test.........because i did on liks for kyraa's opal silk

and he got so fucking lucky he got on my 32th fish so i didnt get to try alot

i did with arthars's "Weak water energy" VS wife's "Overwhelming"

both ID took 15 baits

i got up a total of 64 liks in 3 hours or so. i did not lose to any liks, and i did not get any "lack of skill" and "not enough time" message. i only used albatross. in the entire 3+ hour, theres only a handful of instance where both PC got liks but i still managed to fish both up with 2 hands (woot)

Arth have overwhelming before i left for taiwan, but i removed them to test lvl 1 moglification

Arthars(100+5+ moglification 1 = 106): broke all 15 baits got 29 liks, which is almost about 1 bait : 2 liks, which is also the kinda average i got before signboard
Yumitaru(100+5+ moglification 3 = 108 ): broke 13 baits got 35 liks, which is almost about 1 bait : 2.7 liks, which is definately higher than her previous 1:2 before signboard

i cannot tell you the deplete rate because u all know how random liks can be(like a ryugu) + the fact that both my PC are VERY DIFFERENT specs (quad core VS single core)

like i said, liks arent fishes you can spam to get a huge sample so this is just a prelim finding.........didnt wanna post until i get real concrete data when i get back to gugs grinding, but a little bit of info here wouldnt hurt i guess

i also had my wife fish 29 like before, but only break 4 lines 1 month ago when she first got signboard. so yea, its very random......

ps. my wife ID always always always have been reeling in more fishes than arthars ever because she has been always ahead in terms of fishing skills. when i got ebisu before signboard, she was 100 + 5 + 1 moghancement and i was only 100+5 (no plans yet for moghancement due to GP issue)

only until recently we are considered on par(got arth's overwhelming 2 weeks ago)

if you ask me, i will SLIGHTLY lean towards: Yes, overwhelming works, for now

Kyraa borrowed my account while i was in taiwan last week(where i just got signboard and setup overwhelming for him to play with). he never fish liks before and still managed to reel in 80-90 in 4-5 days casual fishing.

he still have the cheek to tell me "fuck the moglification, its all a lie, i still break like a mofo" WHEN HE DID NOT EVEN TRIED BEFORE FISHING W/O MOGLIFICATION WITH LUSHANG

THIS TELLS YOU HOW NOOB HE IS XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you can reel in that many liks being a first time lik fisher, ebisu + signboard is no joke yo

line breaking on gugs and liks are normal. do not expect to go clean and get 12 gugs in 12 meatballs

LEARN TO APPRECIATE YOUR EBISU GUYS

i will go back to gugs pretty soon again and grind to post more findings.......i got 7 haguns in 7 ENM recently, kinda got back the money i spent on KC and is taking a little fishing break atm ^^

also playing dissidia on my new PSP +_+

[solkanar]

Just curious for anyone who did Lik/Gug's with a Lu whats an estimate on a catch to rod break ratio? Don't have WW leveled or access to anyone with it so I'll have to trip to Rabo every time i break. I'm prepared to make several trips back and forth but just want an idea of what I should expect. I'll be trying these at skill 90 +4 and Albatross/Penguin rings.

[barber2006]

I'll throw in a couple of tidbits regarding some of the discussion here:

1) No, having overwhelming water energy does not give extra skill points to your moghancement. Under the old fishing system this was very easy to test as there was a /wait in between casting times which changed based on your level. Adding additional elemental resistance didn't trigger a shorter wait. This is also how people know advanced fishing support is 3. It's also reasonable to assume that fishing is the same as other crafts in regard to how much skill the furnishing adds (which is 1 regardless of elemental strength). To be fair I never checked this with moglification (cant even remember when it came out in regards to the new fishing system), but as we have seen in other crafts the bonus that moglification gives over moghancement seems to be tiny.


2) Also, at least on items, elemental strength does not affect biterate. During the rusty cap fishing craze (2004? 2005?) I spent about 3 months in rabao as I only had satellite internet at the time and fishing was all I could do. The biterate for rusty caps was pretty much identical with level 1, 2, and 3 elemental energy so long as I kept the moghancment: fishing (the item one, not the skill one). I tracked it by hand and I don't have the numbers anymore, but they are posted somewhere if you want to search the other boards. I do remember it was thousands of casts and that tier 2 elemental energy slightly won out with tier 3 and tier 1 following in that order.


So as far as elemental energy is concerned in a moghancement setup I think there is a huge burden of proof out there for claiming it affects fishing with extra skill or biterates when we see that in so many other cases it simply does not do those things at all.



As far as depletion is concerned, I would think its important to remember that moghancements were added well before the new fishing system was put in place. The new system was designed for one purpose: to curtail botting. Now obviously there are still bots, but I do know that many of the widely used free bots that worked under the old system did not work with the new system. The /wait bonus that you got as you leveled under the old system was replaced with biterate/linesnap/etc bonus in the new system as you leveled up. However, since there was no bonus for the moghancement other than the +1 skill under the old system, I really don't see a reason why they would have ninja'd that one in there.



Having said that, I'm not beyond being shown results that prove differently. Obviously though, a sample size of 35 liks is far from conclusive. Last month I caught 18 in a row without a line break, but would hardly attribute that to any thing other than luck. I would hope there IS a way to increase efficiency. However, based on the information we could glean under the old system and the crafting system in general, I would say there is a HUGE burden of proof on anything other than skill making a difference in biterate/linesnap/depletion rate/etc.

[Liminality]

Or simply put by the "man in the moon" theory...

There's a single SE employee pressing a button that says "Line Break/Total Fail/You Lose, Come Again" and that very small button that says "I'm Feeling Generous"

[neubian]

I have spent my GP on the signboard first based on the postings here. My MH also has overwhelming water energy. Although I have not done any extensive testing, I feel that there is very little (if any) difference before the signboard/overwhelming effect and after. I have yet to witness the super-ebisu mode as well.

[trinironnie]

Well today i decided to start fishing, so far i'm trying to find the moat guide so i can skill while working on Lu shang @__@. Any advice/tips/guides would be lovely.

[Seraph]

Well today i decided to start fishing, so far i'm trying to find the moat guide so i can skill while working on Lu shang @__@. Any advice/tips/guides would be lovely.

Knight's Well outside of sandy is a nice fishing spot. I believe with insect paste balls you can single target them there too (with the exception of items).

On a non related note, I placed 3rd in the fishing contest. Pelican Ring, some gil, and the 'Silver Hook' title. I feel like a fishin' pirate now, and couldn't be happier. :3

[Julian]

Well today i decided to start fishing, so far i'm trying to find the moat guide so i can skill while working on Lu shang @__@. Any advice/tips/guides would be lovely.

Buy the lu shangs and don't waste time fishing carps.

[trinironnie]

Nah when i do something i rather earn it. (11 fishing btw)

[Julian]

And this is why I pretty much avoid posting here now a days.

[trinironnie]

Andd...i dnt have the gil >.>;

[Seraph]

And this is why I pretty much avoid posting here now a days.

It gets to a point where someone has to keep making new Lus to bring into the system. Sure, people who obtain their Ebisu probably end up dumping their Lu afterward, and I'm sure some people just get bored with fishing entirely, but I doubt that keeps up with the new fishers who seriously want to get a Lu. I had to camp the AH for over a week to get my Lu, and I think that speaks to the demand for them.

I have far, far, far less criticism for someone who decided to fish moats (or buy them by fishing other fish) and obtaining their Lu that way than the people who think they are gonna just march to 100 without one.

[nibu]

Just curious for anyone who did Lik/Gug's with a Lu whats an estimate on a catch to rod break ratio? Don't have WW leveled or access to anyone with it so I'll have to trip to Rabo every time i break. I'm prepared to make several trips back and forth but just want an idea of what I should expect. I'll be trying these at skill 90 +4 and Albatross/Penguin rings.

@100+4+adv. imagery, etc.: Catch 40%, Line snap 40%, rod break 15%, Lack of Skill 5%

Numbers are approximate, and assume you drain the gugru 100% of the way (though getting it below <5% is usually enough to be considered "successfully depleted").

I think the numbers are the same for Liks.

Edit: By successfully depleted, I mean that you won't get the "lack of skill" message that results in a line snap. If you don't know what I mean, try reeling one in at 100% (actually, don't, that's a waste!), and you'll get "lack of skill" + line snap.

If you drain one completely, and get a "lack of skill" message, it is a literal lack of skill points on your part, but you won't get a line snap; there's nothing you can really do about these when you have max skill. The lack of skill + line snap only occurs when you don't deplete the fish enough.


I'm not sure whether draining a fish completely, versus draining him to 1-5% stamina (or any "successfully depleted" level), makes it more likely that you'll fish it up instead of getting a line snap. I lean towards the theory that 0% is no better than 1-5%, but I have no proof of this. I always attempt to drain them completely, but if I'm running out of time, I'll go for it, and usually have the same ratio of catch/line snaps.

[cdgreg]

Nah when i do something i rather earn it. (11 fishing btw)

I normally try to be helpful around these parts, but jesus christ that's annoying on 2 fronts.

#1 The implication here is that none of us earned a lu because we saved gil and bought it...
10,000 fish divided by 190 fish per day (That is just about fishing to cap) = 53 days of fishing moats to cap. If you want to dedicate the next 2 months of your life to fishing moats and being stuck at fishing level 11 that's your decision, but for those of us who can scrap together 3m much easier than dedicating 200 hours to fishing earned it just the same as you did, only through different methods. If you've ever bought a rare HQ did you not earn it because you didn't level the craft to 100 yourself and then spam synths until you HQ'd? C'mon, if you want to quest a Lu all on your own for the sense of accomplishment then that's awesome I won't bug you one bit, but to say you earned it more than someone who achieved it through other methods is a croc.

2. Shocking you're at fishing skill 11, anyone who is solely fishing moats for a Lu without even at least going the moat skill up path is going to be stuck at 11, for a long, long time.

3. I've said it before and I've pasted the guide 10 times by now, I think you'd make much better progress picking up a Halcyon rod
0-11 moats
11-27 nebs
27-53 eastern shalls in nash
At this point you should have near enough to buy a Lu, if you need to fish more nebs go ahead, but atleast you've achieved 40+ more levels instead of being stuck at 11.

[Seraph]

27-53 eastern shalls in nash
At this point you should have near enough to buy a Lu, if you need to fish more nebs go ahead, but atleast you've achieved 40+ more levels instead of being stuck at 11.

Was I mistaken in assuming the line snap rate on 'Nash Shells' (all ToAU fish names are made-up garbage) without a Lu was very high? I waited to go to Nash until after I got a Lu because I figured snapping a line every 40 catches or so would all but eliminate my profit, but perhaps I was mistaken? Having a Lu, I only snapped one ever line fishing shells, and it was because I accidentally hit Enter before completely draining the fish. It was late, I was tired, etc.

[cdgreg]

Was I mistaken in assuming the line snap rate on 'Nash Shells' (all ToAU fish names are made-up garbage) without a Lu was very high? I waited to go to Nash until after I got a Lu because I figured snapping a line every 40 catches or so would all but eliminate my profit, but perhaps I was mistaken? Having a Lu, I only snapped one ever line fishing shells, and it was because I accidentally hit Enter before completely draining the fish. It was late, I was tired, etc.

Idk to be honest, I've heard from lsmates the line snaps sucked at 10ish, but didn't complain to me again after 27. I'm sure someone who has actually done it can chime in.

edit: if you do break too many lines then time wise you can obtain a lu faster fishing/selling nebs on the AH.

[tsaroth816]

ty Arthars, now for my experience:

I have Ebisu, Apron/Tunica, Waders, but no signboard. On Gugs, I have a 25%-35% avg line break rate (catch/land ~65%-75% gugs) This is a major improvement from when I did with Lu I'd get 50%-75% line break rate (only catch/land ~30% of Gugs). In my opinion Map+Sign moglification would help that, overwhelming or not. So that should be worth it itself.

Does the signboard alone (moghance not lification) say +skill? I would assume it's just like other signboards, less breaks (or loss of mats when break) and no +skill. Just the 150k GP furnishings should give the +skill, no? Sign has to do something extra then, or why add it?

Let's take Moghancement: Desynth for example, I've tested this with little & overwhemling, there is a big difference, why shouldn't others have some scale too?

Okay I saw a mention of adv support giving +3 skill, that is for all crafts, fishing is a +2 skill. Map proven to give +1? I don't remember this, in fact I clearly remember map only giving +item fishing like a freaking rusty bucket when it first came out. And signboard came out waaaay after "new" fishing system w/o /wait times, so moglification couldn't have been tested (diff from moghancement)

Lu shang breaks on Lik question: You will break alot, sometimes I see breaks 4 times in 30min, sometimes I go 2hrs w/o a break, expect a lot of trips ><;

[cdgreg]

Does the signboard alone (moghance not lification) say +skill? I would assume it's just like other signboards, less breaks (or loss of mats when break) and no +skill. Just the 150k GP furnishings should give the +skill, no? Sign has to do something extra then, or why add it?

Can't get moglification without also adding the big one or map. Wiki says this:

It is obtained by placing the Fisherman's Signboard and one or both of these Furnishings in the mog house:
* Fishing Hole Map
* The Big One

As for the description itself mentioning skill, here it is:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ff...on_Fishing.jpg

[trinironnie]

I normally try to be helpful around these parts, but jesus christ that's annoying on 2 fronts.

#1 The implication here is that none of us earned a lu because we saved gil and bought it...
10,000 fish divided by 190 fish per day (That is just about fishing to cap) = 53 days of fishing moats to cap. If you want to dedicate the next 2 months of your life to fishing moats and being stuck at fishing level 11 that's your decision, but for those of us who can scrap together 3m much easier than dedicating 200 hours to fishing earned it just the same as you did, only through different methods. If you've ever bought a rare HQ did you not earn it because you didn't level the craft to 100 yourself and then spam synths until you HQ'd? C'mon, if you want to quest a Lu all on your own for the sense of accomplishment then that's awesome I won't bug you one bit, but to say you earned it more than someone who achieved it through other methods is a croc.

2. Shocking you're at fishing skill 11, anyone who is solely fishing moats for a Lu without even at least going the moat skill up path is going to be stuck at 11, for a long, long time.

3. I've said it before and I've pasted the guide 10 times by now, I think you'd make much better progress picking up a Halcyon rod
0-11 moats
11-27 nebs
27-53 eastern shalls in nash
At this point you should have near enough to buy a Lu, if you need to fish more nebs go ahead, but atleast you've achieved 40+ more levels instead of being stuck at 11.

I didn't mean it in a offensive way, and i wasn't gonna stay there just doing moats, I was following a friend that gave me spots that i could skill and get moats. But thxs for the input and sorry if i offended anyone.