Fishing

[cdgreg]

Is that drying rack on the left part of the stall? If so, extra cool points awarded

To the left is the of the stall is the Stockfish. It was really cheap and easy to make, I made like 6, 1 for myself and 5 to sell lol. To the left of that is my fisherman's sign in the middle of my MH with the big one on the right wall. Symmetrically opposite in the room is my Alchemist's stall with the really really really cool looking flask set on it.

[nibu]

On the contrar from what I've read. Is there anyone who has had this happen repeatedly who does not use a bot?

I haven't fished to max fatigue in ages, so I can't help ya with that. I *might* give marathoning Hakuryu a go after they update the fishing system (to hopefully make PC fishing easier), but my schedule may not allow it.

...This wasn't a really worthwhile post. After all the bot-talk, though, I sort of felt the need to emphasize I've never botted. :X

[urat]

I haven't fished to max fatigue in ages, so I can't help ya with that. I *might* give marathoning Hakuryu a go after they update the fishing system (to hopefully make PC fishing easier), but my schedule may not allow it.

...This wasn't a really worthwhile post. After all the bot-talk, though, I sort of felt the need to emphasize I've never botted. :X

I only consider botting cheating when it's for personal gain, for example, leaving it afk overnight to catch a bunch of fish to AH for gil.

Using a bot to kill a fish at a specific time so you can try and figure out the fatigue system isn't personal gain at all, hell Im still sitting right here watching the thing right now, so it's not like Im even having an advantage over another player anyways, lol.

At this point it has now been an hour and Ive hooked about 10 haks, 5 or so I've landed... Ive cranked the wait time to a hairpin right before I run out of time and am waiting 7 seconds between casts. Here's what Im starting to think SE does.

Upon hooking a fish the game assigns it a "fatigue" value. Then when you catch it the server divides this value by some variable based on the time it took you to land the fish. The longer you take to land the fish the less of a fatigue impact you are given. The equation is probably nonlinear as well, so your average fishers will all get close to the same amount of fatigue, but botters will see much higher levels of fatigue because they're catching 3-4 seconds sooner than normal fishers, and killfishers will see incredibly high amounts of fatigue because they're at the bottom of the curve.

This also leads me to believe why penguin ring gives a different ID for your fish, as penguin ring makes you catch faster it'd be a really sucky ring if that meant you got a lot more fatigue, so instead the game gives you an entirely different fish ID with a much lower fatigue value.

So far everything we've found supports this theory, no?

[crux]

I have never, ever reached early fatigue (except for that odd 207/213 thing I've mentioned a few times). I also never fish up purely Haks, so that puts me around 60 Haks at a full session. I said a while ago it's probably a glitch, but tally ho.

I've done some calculations before, and the hourly catch rate of Haks seems to be 8-10 on average, putting Haks-only at a typical max of about 104,900 gil an hour (discounting line breaks). With Soles, I calculated the typical max gil per hour to be closer to 120,000 gil. It doesn't seem like a big difference, but when we consider the lower end of the scale for Haks-only (as Sole don't fluctuate as much, being more common pulls), we're talking two or three hours of extra fishing to make up the difference. For those of us that don't bot and actually play the game as well, the choice is pretty obvious.

[shaddix]

There's this bot here that's been fishing next to me for about 3 hours hooking nothing but haks. In the past hour and a half he has caught 10 haks and I have caught 15 in addition to 22 black sole. He is also reeling his haks in at exactly 21 seconds every time, so less fight time for him. Could just be his fishing skill or mh items or whatever. I won't be able to complete my test against myself for a bit yet.

[Mafai]

I have never, ever reached early fatigue (except for that odd 207/213 thing I've mentioned a few times). I also never fish up purely Haks, so that puts me around 60 Haks at a full session. I said a while ago it's probably a glitch, but tally ho.

I've done some calculations before, and the hourly catch rate of Haks seems to be 8-10 on average, putting Haks-only at a typical max of about 104,900 gil an hour (discounting line breaks). With Soles, I calculated the typical max gil per hour to be closer to 120,000 gil. It doesn't seem like a big difference, but when we consider the lower end of the scale for Haks-only (as Sole don't fluctuate as much, being more common pulls), we're talking two or three hours of extra fishing to make up the difference. For those of us that don't bot and actually play the game as well, the choice is pretty obvious.

How are you calculating gil per hour on black sole to be 120k? If sole were 1k (which is being generous) and you capped each day it would only be 200k to fatigue. And I'm sure you don't catch 200 sole in 2 hours.

[shaddix]

He's talking about in addition to hakuryu lol

also ebisu cap is 220ish!

[Mafai]

He's talking about in addition to hakuryu lol

also ebisu cap is 220ish!

Oh, good call. My bad.

Like I said before, if you can't fish to fatigue on Haks its obvious that you would want to include sole.

[shaddix]

I'm going to fish haks only today and see what my rate is compared to the other day. Haks do have a more favorable moon today than my previous test though.

edit: I can't do it. I just feel like I am throwing gil away releasing the black sole. I applaud you people who can fish for 20 hours a day to cap on hakuryu.

[logiq]

Stating the obvious:
Bots usually catch fish in one of two ways.

Killhacking: To me, this is the most commonly used method to catch the fish. After a specified amount of time, the bot writes the desired value to the fish's current stamina offset, depleting it INSTANTLY and then pulling the fish up.

Auto-fight: Rarer imho, but still often used. The bot reads the rod position offset and then quite literally fights the fish, but perfectly.


My opinion:
I haven't looked at the code in some time, but let me explain a possibility:

There are several offsets in the fishing structure. Three in particular of note are the fish's max stamina, current stamina, and also time on line. At least this was the case when I mapped it some time ago.

Just because the 'fighting' of the fish is done client side, does NOT mean that there isn't a way to become fatigued by killing it rather than auotfighting, as was implied earlier in this thread.

If SE had put a simple equation in using the aforementioned offsets, it would be possible to determine easily who was killhacking, and who was depleting the stamina normally over time. I'm not saying that they have done this, since I truly do not know. But I am saying it's definitely possible to do.

As for the argument concerning the weight of the fish being used as a determinant or factor: I highly, highly doubt this is the case; but again, I've been wrong before.

I'll take a look at the fishing structure in a bit and see if I notice anything that stands out. But honestly, there SHOULD be no reason you cannot autofight or fish without bot and get 100+ hakuryu a day, other than time limitations/bite rate.

[Fievel]

Just gonna throw it out there that my bot auto-fights, not kills.

[Mafai]

Stating the obvious:
Bots usually catch fish in one of two ways.

Killhacking: To me, this is the most commonly used method to catch the fish. After a specified amount of time, the bot writes the desired value to the fish's current stamina offset, depleting it INSTANTLY and then pulling the fish up.

Auto-fight: Rarer imho, but still often used. The bot reads the rod position offset and then quite literally fights the fish, but perfectly.


My opinion:
I haven't looked at the code in some time, but let me explain a possibility:

There are several offsets in the fishing structure. Three in particular of note are the fish's max stamina, current stamina, and also time on line. At least this was the case when I mapped it some time ago.

Just because the 'fighting' of the fish is done client side, does NOT mean that there isn't a way to become fatigued by killing it rather than auotfighting, as was implied earlier in this thread.

If SE had put a simple equation in using the aforementioned offsets, it would be possible to determine easily who was killhacking, and who was depleting the stamina normally over time. I'm not saying that they have done this, since I truly do not know. But I am saying it's definitely possible to do.

As for the argument concerning the weight of the fish being used as a determinant or factor: I highly, highly doubt this is the case; but again, I've been wrong before.

I'll take a look at the fishing structure in a bit and see if I notice anything that stands out. But honestly, there SHOULD be no reason you cannot autofight or fish without bot and get 100+ hakuryu a day, other than time limitations/bite rate.

The last time I looked at fishing it was this:

        int MaxHP;
        int HP;
        int ID3;
        int unknown0;
        int ID1;
        int ID2;
        int ID4;
        int timeout;
        int unknown1;
        int unknown2;
        int rodPos;

The unknowns might be known at this point, but those never mattered.

[crux]

Ebisu cap is 210. I've never had it go above 213, and the 213 days (followed or preceded by a day of 207) are uncommon.

[Myriads]

To the left is the of the stall is the Stockfish. It was really cheap and easy to make, I made like 6, 1 for myself and 5 to sell lol. To the left of that is my fisherman's sign in the middle of my MH with the big one on the right wall. Symmetrically opposite in the room is my Alchemist's stall with the really really really cool looking flask set on it.

Thank you, I wondered what the Stockfish looked like, I'll need to make myself one. I appreciate the info!

[shaddix]

I caught 221 fish the other day before hitting hard fatigue. Black sole and Haks. According to my logs.

[crux]

You sure you didn't start before 12:00JP? I can tell like clockwork when my string of no bites will start once I hit 210, or once a blue moon if not, at 213. Have you hit numbers that high more than once?

[shaddix]

You sure you didn't start before 12:00JP? I can tell like clockwork when my string of no bites will start once I hit 210, or once a blue moon if not, at 213. Have you hit numbers that high more than once?

It was in two separate sessions. I just counted(not by hand of course) how many 'Shaddix catches a soandso' of all fish between 10AM(jp midnight for me) on my 5/4 log and 10AM on my 5/5 log file.

I have no idea if I've caught that many before as I very rarely fish to fatigue. I will see if I can fish to fatigue today and we will see what I come up with.

[cdgreg]

Spoiler: show

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/7...0506222829.jpg

Little fishing corner. It's not Urat's mansion of a MH, but I like to keep it simple. Saving for Fishing Hole Map now

edit: is it possible to dress a mannequin in fishing gear? That'd be pretty neat

[cdgreg]

@Urat when you were fishing the abys-altep dragons were you using minnow or sinking? I've been here for an hour using sinking and have not caught a single bream. My only single ! have been rusty leggings.

[urat]

@Urat when you were fishing the abys-altep dragons were you using minnow or sinking? I've been here for an hour using sinking and have not caught a single bream. My only single ! have been rusty leggings.

I fished by the mandies, and I used sinking.