Fishing

[dasva]

Those that enforce the rules must adhere to them themselves and indeed be held to a higher standard or else why should anyone

[Byrthnoth]

Laws are how we shape our society. If you agree with the logic behind the law then you should follow it even if the policemen in your town are shitty.

[Xenebron]

Aye, I've got hit with the banstick on Lakshmi (3 days suspension I think) and found this thread via Google while I was checking if it's "just me" or other people as well. My account is European btw.

I wouldn't have commented, but I felt that I have to after reading a bit more. Even made me sign up just for that.

friend just got gm on cerb, asked him to move and stuff, then asked how he can fish and do stuff on main char at same time, so he said someone in his family plays with his 2nd char too and the GM told him he can't do that but he will let him off the hook for this time.

I see where this is a valid question from the GM though. If you or your friend or whoever says that someone "in his family" plays your/his 2nd account (and that account is on the same Square Enix ID), then that is a violation of the user agreement as outlined on their Support Center. (Can't post URLs yet...)

"Please note that sharing account information is also a violation of the Terms of Service (FINAL FANTASY® XI User Agreement, Section 3.1). Sharing this account information can lead to disciplinary action being taken against the account."

How this GM acted was wrong (they were baiting you), and this is a case where speaking with an SGM would have been entirely appropriate.

Owning two accounts and playing them simultaneously has never been against the ToS. Sharing accounts is not allowed, but owning and simultaneously using multiple accounts is. Just say that you're playing them both at the same time. Say you use a KVM, or multiple PCs, or whatever applies. (Don't lie about what platforms you're playing on, though.) You should not be threatened in relation to this.

According to what Reg and Aozora posted no one was "threatened"? No punishment, warning, suspension, ban...

Well he didnt say you werent allowed to -have- 2 accounts, he said you cant share. And his question was valid... sure its fine that you kill a NM with a dual box because youre fighting with them at the same time, but how do you explain doing say.. delve while your other character is actively fishing?

Exactly. Apparently this guy was told that -sharing- is not allowed, and not that playing 2 accounts at the same time wouldn't be allowed.

No, it isn't.

By questioning and warning the user about potential punishment, they are discouraging them from a behavior that they are fully within their rights to engage in.

It's a baiting question that makes the user uncomfortable, especially if they aren't intimately familiar with the rules, and can make a nervous person believe they're doing something wrong. How the GM acted was wrong.

If the GM wanted to handle this in another way (though they still shouldn't have asked the question at all), once the user answered to state that they were personally playing both accounts, it should have ended there. That's allowed, and that's it. If someone else observes them acting suspiciously and reports them to the STF, then it's on the STF to pursue an investigation.

Baiting a player into making an admission of guilt, especially under duress and in relation to an allowable scenario, is not the GM's job.

How again did you come to the conclusion that anyone was threatened, warned or baited? Please elaborate.

Still, the GM can't harass someone like that. Obviously, a digital situation is no equivalent to a real world scenario, but if a police officer can be suspended for unreasonably giving a civilian shit, so should a GM have to deal with a talking-to from their boss for unjustly fucking with a customer.

Now it's harassing and fucking customers. Again, could you please elaborate?

[Kohan]

Elaboration isn't needed. All you have to read is the original account.

friend just got gm on cerb, asked him to move and stuff, then asked how he can fish and do stuff on main char at same time, so he said someone in his family plays with his 2nd char too and the GM told him he can't do that but he will let him off the hook for this time.

The first bolded part is baiting, the second bolded part is what they said under duress and uncertainty, and the third is a threat and implication of the player's wrongdoing that only came about because of the initial baiting and the resultant stressed response.

[dasva]

Laws are how we shape our society. If you agree with the logic behind the law then you should follow it even if the policemen in your town are shitty.

True but most don't agree with many laws. We obey them under the understanding that it's what the collective wishes to some extent to maintain some sort of order or whatever and that everyone shall be so limited.

[Xenebron]

Elaboration isn't needed. All you have to read is the original account.



The first bolded part is baiting, the second bolded part is what they said under duress and uncertainty, and the third is a threat and implication of the player's wrongdoing that only came about because of the initial baiting and the resultant stressed response.

Maybe they were two GMs, one was monitoring account A, one was monitoring account B which were linked to the same SQID and after 5, 10 minutes of watching the bot "bot" and the player "play", the bot got contacted?
I don't see why it would be baiting or threatening to a player, I see that more as a legit question of one or more GMs doing their investigational things for absentee playing. Also, the player got away without any punishment as it looks like. I think you're over-exaggerating things a bit and making it sound worse than it actually was. Also, no one knows what exactly happened and just "wild guesses" are made.

Not trying to cuddle with the GM(s) there, just sayin'.

[Kohan]

I don't see why it would be baiting

It's baiting because the player is allowed to use multiple accounts simultaneously, but may not be aware of that. It should not be treated like suspicious behavior because it's permitted behavior. End of story.

[dasva]

The only way this could not be baiting is if the GM was basically just asking out of curiousity and not basically trying to get him to perjure himself.

[Xenebron]

It's baiting because the player is allowed to use multiple accounts simultaneously, but may not be aware of that. It should not be treated like suspicious behavior because it's permitted behavior. End of story.

It would be baiting if an account action would have followed. Nothing happened there, unless the person who initially posted that gossip didn't tell us everything.
And even when he said that he did share his account with someone from his family, nothing happened.
I agree that it would be questionable if that guy would have been suspended / banned for that...

[dasva]

The reason there was no action is not because of the GMs intent in this situation but because the player only admitted to a small offense which wouldn't result in action. It's not because he wasn't baiting but because it wasn't successful enough. If he said something like I'm using a program or something there definitely would have been action. He stayed as far as I know was staying within the letter of rules and guidelines but not necessarily the spirit. So in order to take action he needed more than he was getting hence trying to get someone to perjure themselves

[nibu]

For those just joining:

[Reg]

My friend took down the screenshot so i can't show it to you guys, but no the GM didn't do anything, he just asked him "How can you fish consistently on your alternate character while you seem busy on your other, main character xxx?" that's when he said he let his sister play that character. The GM then said that only the original owner of the account can use it and he can't share it with anyone. After that he said that he has been informed and warned about the situation and will let it slip for this time then left. Nothing more, took 5 mins.

[noodles355]

I would have responded 1) Fishing doesn't require constant attention, you only need to focus on it when you see !!! bite, which is like 10-15 times an hour, and 2) because I'm awesome, that's how.

[dasva]

None of your business Mr. GM! If you can't do it to I say suck less!

[Byrthnoth]

"Too Small" fishing path with Composite Fishing Rod:
53 : Istridye from the Nashmau docks (Robber or Rogue Rig)
69 : Crescent Fish from East Sarutabaruta (???) - I didn't do this one
75 : Tavnazian Goby from the Lufaise Meadows G-9 Bridge (Minnow)
88 : Black Ghost from the Caedarva Mire I-10 Island (Worm Lure)
-- After this, I can't see any more "too small" fish --

[Aozora]

dont do crescent fish, they are slowwww.

And its funny, so bent up about the GM baiting the guy, you seem to have forgotten he WAS botting, which is why he lied about someone else using his account. Obviously there had to have been some validity to the GM's question because he was accurate this time. There is nothing wrong with asking questions, and the only way to put someone in duress with these questions is if they WERE doing something wrong and need to lie about it.

[Ithil]

And its funny, so bent up about the GM baiting the guy, you seem to have forgotten he WAS botting, which is why he lied about someone else using his account. Obviously there had to have been some validity to the GM's question because he was accurate this time. There is nothing wrong with asking questions, and the only way to put someone in duress with these questions is if they WERE doing something wrong and need to lie about it.

I wonder if we would be speaking about "baiting" if we had some screens of the conversation with the GM.

[Kohan]

There is nothing wrong with asking questions

There is something wrong with treating permitted behavior like suspicious behavior. You don't seem to be understanding this. If you deliberately choose to disagree with that, this is fine. However, it's dishonest to ask someone about allowable behavior as if it were not allowable behavior.

Beyond citing the ToS and various articles on the Support Site, if anyone in the future is ever asked such a thing...

None of your business Mr. GM! If you can't do it to I say suck less!

[D44kpunk]

There is something wrong with treating permitted behavior like suspicious behavior. You don't seem to be understanding this. If you deliberately choose to disagree with that, this is fine. However, it's dishonest to ask someone about allowable behavior as if it were not allowable behavior.

Beyond citing the ToS and various articles on the Support Site, if anyone in the future is ever asked such a thing...

just fyi in the ToS it says that it's just a guideline and they can ban you for whatever the fuck they want, i'm not sure why you're on a GM bashing vendetta. did you get banned or something? =/

[Kohan]

just fyi in the ToS it says that it's just a guideline and they can ban you for whatever the fuck they want, i'm not sure why you're on a GM bashing vendetta. did you get banned or something? =/

I've never so much as been to Mordion Gaol. I'm also not bashing GMs, but I am blasting the behavior of this particular one, and for the aforementioned reasons.