New WeaponSkill Chart

[Wolfknight]

for ws damage on drg I wonder who u got to rate really <_<, I'd change skewer from average > good, Impulse Drive good > average, and vorpal thrust average > worst.

[Max™]

Just a little nitpick.

Raging Rush properties are listed wrong, RR > RR, Guillo > RR, or RR > Gekko are all Fragmentation, so RR can't just be Induration/Reverberation.

[Suiram]

Just a little nitpick.

Raging Rush properties are listed wrong, RR > RR, Guillo > RR, or RR > Gekko are all Fragmentation, so RR can't just be Induration/Reverberation.

Ice Element > Water Element = Fragmentation. Guillotine is Ice, Gekko is Water, Raging Rush is both.

Raging Rush (Ice) > Raging Rush (Water) = Frag
Guillotine (Ice) > Raging Rush (Water) = Frag
Raging Rush (Ice) > Gekko (Water) = Frag

So yes, it could be just Induration/Reverberation, and is according to every SC chart I've seen.

[Wolfknight]

Just a little nitpick.

Raging Rush properties are listed wrong, RR > RR, Guillo > RR, or RR > Gekko are all Fragmentation, so RR can't just be Induration/Reverberation.

try raging rush > yukikaze or gekko > raging rush and it will be Induration

[buttson]

Impulse Drive good > average

To the OP (Psymia), I don't know what exactly you're basing these ratings on, but if it's based on dmg potential and not utility, I'd downgrade Impulse Drive to worst. Yeah, it closes darkness, but the weaponskill fucking sucks.

Polearm WS		100%	200%	300%	#Hits	Secondary Attribute	TP Adjustment
Double Thrust		1.00	1.50	2.00	2x	STR_30%                 damage
Impulse Drive		1.00	1.50	2.50	2x	STR_50%                 damage

Yep - the only difference between the slvl 10 ws and the quested one is +20% STR mod and a little higher bonus from 300 TP. Unless you have a phalanx of BLMs ready to burst on darkness, and no one else is around to create it, you're going to be much better off having your DRGs spam Wheeling Thrust (or whichever WS is appropriate). And you won't have to listen DRGs everywhere crying out in pain.

Source for this info has been around for years, but I haven't seen anything change on it (for polearm). Most recently it was quoted here: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/journal2....06680697846812

[Wolfknight]

I said average based on the fact that thunder, and raiden thurst were correctly listed as worst(vorpal added to it), and double thrust was listed as bad, thus it should be listed above them at average, while skewer/wheeling good, and penta best, so please tell me how it's worst when the standard for bad is double thrust?

[buttson]

I said average based on the fact that thunder, and raiden thurst were correctly listed as worst(vorpal added to it), and double thrust was listed as bad, thus it should be listed above them at average, while skewer/wheeling good, and penta best, so please tell me how it's worst when the standard for bad is double thrust?

Man, relax. I wasn't addressing your suggestion, I just quoted it for context.

Yes, compared to Thunder/Raiden thrust, and the horrid Vorpal Thrust, Impulse Drive should rate slightly higher. So I retract my rating of "Worst", and I upgrade it to "Bad".

These descriptions are completely arbitrairy anyway. Are we talking about effectiveness while leveling up, or are we talking endgame? Double Thrust is the best WS until you get Penta Thrust at DRG49, yet Double Thrust is a joke at 75 (Impulse Drive being only slightly less of a joke). Does that make Double Thrust "Bad"?

At 75 I'd put Penta Thrust, Wheeling Thrust and Skewer (no particular order) all ahead of Impulse Drive in any situation except where a dark skillchain is absolutely needed. In terms of damage output, at 75 Impulse Drive doesn't even come close. I'd put it in the same category as Double Thrust, which in this case, at 75, is "Worst". If I had to categorize Thunder/Raiden Thrust and Vorpal Thrust as weaponskills used at 75, they'd be like double unworst.

[Shuemue]

The chart is horribly ugly, and pretty redundant imo

Far easier to go to http://magitekarmy.com/skillchain.php and pop in a few variables and get a nicely formatted list back.

[Max™]

Fragmentation is Lightning and Wind.

If Raging Rush was Ice and Water only, why would Raging Rush > Raging Rush make Fragmentation?

It would be Induration, or Distortion, or Reverberation, not Fragmentation.

That chart is wrong there, at least.

[Wolfknight]

Fragmentation is Lightning and Wind.

If Raging Rush was Ice and Water only, why would Raging Rush > Raging Rush make Fragmentation?

It would be Induration, or Distortion, or Reverberation, not Fragmentation.

That chart is wrong there, at least.

look it again because Induration > Reverberation = Fragmentation (has Reverberation under it to show u need a Reverberation from a Induration to cause Fragmentation). this is due that Fragmentation and Distortion have reverse properties to create while fusion and gravitation have from there element.

[Suiram]

Ice > Water makes Frag just because it does and always has. There are two ways to make a Level 2 SC, either by doing a certain combination of level 1 WSs, or a certain combination of level 2 WSs. Fragmentation is Ice > Water in the first case, or Gravitation > Fragmentation in the second.

To give you a Great Axe example, the two ways to make Distortion are Transfixion (Lv1 Light) > Scission (Lv1 Earth) or Fragmentation > Distortion. If you were SCing with a MNK and wanted to make Distortion, Howling Fist > Iron Tempest would make it by virtue of the first method, and Dragon Kick > Steel Cyclone would make it by virtue of the second. However Howling Fist > Steel Cyclone would be Detonation (even though both attributes are secondary for their respective WSs) while Dragon Kick > Iron Tempest would make no SC at all.

[Max™]

Well, that makes less sense than I thought the SC charts did, but good to know I guess.

I mean, Ice/Water + Ice/Water = Lightning/Wind is so obvious, don't know why it never clicked to me >.<.

[Kimkytaru]

YOur chart seems nice, however I dont really like that kind of look, maybe try to do something like Alexis SC chart, it's really nice cause you just need to pick up jobs, weapon and level and he'll tell you which sc you can make. I'm using this since long time and honestly I love it. It's easy to use and really nicely done :

http://magitekarmy.com/skillchain.php

here's the link if you want to check it maybe try to do somehting in that format, it's far better/clearer in my opinion.

[Suterusu]

I think this is horrible and a visual mess. You're right in saying this just adds another step. The other charts out there that list WS>WS are much easier to follow. This is way too big and has too much information even. Thumbs down. Would never use this.

^

Looks like more of an encyclopedia article than a quick visual referance(sp).

[Xanthe]

http://adennak.com/blog/wordpress/?page_id=4

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Robert]

and here I thought everyone had skillchains memorized, for shame.

[Psymia]

@Max: i never looked at it that way. Ice/Water + Ice/Water = Thunder/Wind :D
But i know that the chart is right in this because i just had a party yesterday with a GA-Warrior and a SAM

@Buttson: Thank you for pointing out the Polearm stuff. To be honest i very very rarely party together with DRG's, and the classifications are vague at best. I'll try to go over the data again and talk to other DRG's

@Shuemue & Kimkytaru: I know that there exist online tools.
But the point of the chart is, that i have an offline thing for myself.
Also these online thingies dont tell me what additional effects the WS's/BlueMagics have. (Like stun or paralyze).

@Xanthe: Adens chart is kind of outdated. No BLU spells, No SMNs, no PUP moves...

[Xanthe]

@Xanthe: Adens chart is kind of outdated. No BLU spells, No SMNs, no PUP moves...

Actually his chart has everything except a couple secondary traits for relic weaponskills, and BLU spells and PUP weaponskills since mid-ToAU. Make sure you have the latest version, 4.3. I believe he has moved on from the game though, hence the lack of recent updates. It's a shame, really, since his chart is pretty much the best format out there.

If you really want to make a comprehensive and easy to use chart I suggest following his format, or even try getting in touch with Aden and see if he can provide you with the source document so you could take over and fill in any new information. As others have stated, the main problem with your chart is how its format is needlessly complex.

[Spider-Dan]

Well, that makes less sense than I thought the SC charts did, but good to know I guess.

I mean, Ice/Water + Ice/Water = Lightning/Wind is so obvious, don't know why it never clicked to me >.<.

This is precisely why I'd rather memorize this:

http://venomweb.150m.com/ffxi/sc-diagram.jpg

It's completely nonsensical that Light-type (Transfixion) -> Earth-type (Scission) = Ice+Water SC (Distortion), but that's the way it works, so it's best just to memorize it. There is no rhyme or reason to why Earth-type can lead to Wind, Water, or Fire, but not Thunder or Ice (or why Fire and Wind can lead back to Earth, but Water can't).

Rather than trying to memorize every SC from every WS to every other WS, if you learn (read: memorize) the fundamental system behind it, the rest of it actually makes sense.

[Psymia]

If you really want to make a comprehensive and easy to use chart I suggest following his format, or even try getting in touch with Aden and see if he can provide you with the source document so you could take over and fill in any new information. As others have stated, the main problem with your chart is how its format is needlessly complex.

I'm sorry you feel this way.
You might be interrested in the chart i'm working on (like i wrote before)

For all those that complained the chart contains too much infos to look something up fast.
I'm trying to rearrange the different weapon sections so i can leave out almost everything except the actual elements and will instead add the weaknesses of the mobs.

@Spider-Dan: I redrew your diagram a bit since it's with the relic-weapons possible to create double-light and/or double darkness chains.
Also i didnt like how the elements from lvl1 to lvl2 were arranged.