Beginning Salvage

[Conrad]

Considering that my server's Salvage is limited in that there is only one successful NA linkshell that I know of, I've taken it upon myself to gather my roommate and some friends of ours in an attempt to get gear for all of us. We tried an Arrapago on Saturday, and the most we managed was a QQN TH kill on the third floor (with no drop). Considering the extent of my Salvage beforehand has been a variety of sloppy Bhaflau runs that either end in time out or a wipe on LBC, I'm rather confused as to what my group's first step should be. We're running 2-3 times a week since many of my roommate's friends (including himself) are in an HNM shell and don't have many available times.

I've decided that the best way to start is to, obviously, target which gear we're looking for and shoot for that. The wiki and this forum have led me to believe that the first "gear path," i.e. lv.15 SS, lv.25 Bhaflau, lv.35 Arrapago drops are the most logical place to start. A few of my attendees on Saturday were disheartened with the lack of cell drops in Arrapago, and we've actually lost a few people that have deemed Salvage as worthless or a waste of time. I decided that my run tonight should be a run on LBC, hopefully nerfing him with the F4 gears.

Question is, where do I go from here? Should I run through each zone first, letting everyone get a feel for the areas before we decide on the best place to continue? Should I keep spamming Arrapago, and Bhaflau in an attempt to complete at least one piece of Salvage gear to validate my group, or should I randomly pick areas and hope for the best from each one. The problem I face is that if we don't get any success within the first 2-3 runs, people are going to give up and leave, and I'm not willing to get random pickups for something as intensive as Salvage.

Anyway, I'm feeling the burden of guilt that nothing dropped in Arrapago, and I'll probably feel the same way tonight if Bhaflau goes badly. I know there's no tricks to success in Salvage besides bringing a good, well-informed group, but I'm looking for any advice to increase my chances for success.

And for the record, my group tonight will most likely be MNK/NIN x3, THF x2, RDM x2, WHM, BLM, BRD. That's the majority of my group that decided to stay, the only others off the top of my head are a WHM/BLM/RDM/BRD/PLD and WAR/WHM/BLM/RDM/RNG/BRD/NIN.

[Arkanna]

I really think you should try another path first.

My (small) group began by trying LBC too. We got raped by him several times before trying something else. We had gotten a lv35 piece or two from Bhaflau so we tried working with those. That path leads to Zhayolm 15's and Silver Seas 25's (Long-Armed Chariot). Fighting LAC taught us how to fight chariots in general: our first fight was long and we almost lost. We've since gotten it down so we can kill it pretty quick now, and the MNK's and WAR's have gotten used to tanking Chariots.

I'd say your best bet is to choose a path with a weaker Chariot to kill for 25 drops. Practice on it, get some pieces upgraded while learning to be efficient in Salvage, then go for LBC.

[Jammintarru]

I think if your group gets discouraged so quickly due to no drops from a salvage run you are in serious trouble. It's very commonplace to do a run and get blanked, just part of the process. You'll have "great" runs where you get 2-3 drops and you'll have typical runs where you get nothing but time spent. It's just part of the ebb and flow of the event and it's important that people realize it and show some patience. Enjoy the event itself because it's challenging and fun with small groups to learn all the ins and outs of salvage.

[cdgreg]

I recently began my own static with members from our endgame ls. the first thing I did was cap it at 10 people although I would have prefered to keep it a bit lower. The first thing I did was ask the 10 members to create a 3 piece wish list, in order they wanted the items. Example: Morrigan body > legs > feet. I then created a doc file with each of the pieces broken down, example:

Morrigan Robe (Body): 6 Desired
Nemian’s Robe (15) – S.S. Remants – Don Poroggo
Bodb’s Robe (25) – Bhaflau Remnants - LBC
Macha’s Coat (35) - Arrapago Remnants – QQ THer

Morrigan Slops (Legs): 2 Desired
Nemian’s Slops (15) – Arrapago Remnants – Archaic Gear + (s)
Bodb’s Slops (25) – Zhayolm Remnants – Battleclad Chariot
Macha’s Slops (35) – S.S. Remnants – Powderkeg Yanadahn
Etc.

This took awhile but has turned into an excellent reference and posted it on the forums which were created specifically for our small static. Seeing this massive list of random nms and mega bosses gave most members a very rough look at what was going to be involved in obtaining the gear. After that I created a sticky for each of the 4 zones and cited/copied/pasted the OP/info from both BG, BG Wiki, and ffxiclopedia. Now that I had all this information it was time I went through it and found what we as a static needed, and what we could skip since I expect members to read the forums, but I do not expect them to memorize pages and pages of information. So after looking at demand I decided upon a couple Arrapago runs since it seemed to be an easily laid out zone, can be low maned easily. I proceeded to bust my ass to create a thread with a strategy for our ls including which mobs we will target, paths we will take, and order of the drops. Within that thread I also translated "salvage language" into easier terms for the new members to read and outlined the strategy for each of the NM's we were targetting: QQAx2, QQTHx2, Archaic chariot. I won't lie to you, the first few runs will be hectic, you'll be stressed and you as the leader probably will not have much fun. But as you, and your members practice you will become much more fluid with the lotting, passing, positioning, etc and everyone will begin having fun or drop out. If people drop out fine, but I've recieved PM's or /tells from a few of my static members thanking me and telling me how much they love salvage because its challenging and different from the endgame material theyve been repeating for months or years. Once we were proficient with Arrapago with those small goals we expanded to Bhaflau and LBC.

I have to tell you, I had a general idea of Bhaflau remnants, but it took me a solid 4-5 hours of work breaking down paths, drops, cells, strategies, etc to prepare the write-up for our group. Our first Bhaf. we did half of a rampart and LBC, and at this point we're able to farm a complete rampart and kill LBC with a time remaining. Also surprising is how often we now do salvage, we originally planned 2 runs a week, Monday and Friday evenings, yet now 6 of us do Arrapago nearly every night just to hit up the QQ's and chariot since the drops are so rare it's not really plausible to use "static runs" for 15-20+ straight weeks for one QQ drop for one person. It wasnt until last week and this week we branched out to Zhay and SS remnants since a couple members were 2/3 and we were ready for a change of scenary. We're still a very very new group which is why I figure my advice can help you, we've only had 7 official runs but have been successful in everything we've attempted thanks mostly due to old school salvagers who post all their great info here such as wizerd, aurik, alma(spelling the rest?), and others I generally recognize by their sigs after looking through hundreds of pages of salvage threads lol.

I'm rambling but it seems salvage success stems down to a couple key points 1. Preparation, make sure you have a detailed guide written before the run, your members read it, ask questions before, and have all needed medicines. 2. An incredibly knowledgable puller/targeter. It seems like nothing wastes more time in salvage than standing around saying durrrr where next. 3. Make people aware rewards are not instant, or even in the near future in salvage and plenty of runs will be targetting 1 persons gear, or come out with nothing at all. For some reason freeforums.org is down right now so I can't cut and paste you an example of how I lay out cell drops, orders, etc, but once its up I'll either post it or PM you. Goodluck, you should have NP as long as you're willing to bust your ass.

edit: check your PMs, i sent you a copy of my writeup/strategy for bhaf. Hope it helps. Enter key!

[Sylvrdragon]

Enter Key, please.

Other than that, it was good advice though.

[Midnightjade]

Good thread. We are currently heading towards the end of our current Thursday/Sunday event series schedule (Nyzul Isle) and I am becoming pretty interested in Salvage. I have been wondering where to begin, how many people it needs, and how best to start a group and keep morale high (ie avoiding a wipe in the first few runs).

Any more information on group size and composition for farming and boss runs would be really welcome. Advice on which zones to start in would also be great.

For the record, our Nyzul group is usually

NIN/MNK/WAR/PLD/SAM
MNK/SAM
BLU/BLM
SAM/WHM/BRD
WHM/NIN/lots of others (close to Maats Cap)
BRD/BST (me)

and other potential members would be

RDM
BLU/DRG
THF/lots of others (also close to Maat's Cap)
RDM
RNG/PLD/THF/PLD/RDM/BRD

Jobs listed in order of how frequently they are played for each person. Does it look feasible?

Thanks in advance. ^^

[Vedder]

Lots of Good Stuff

I wouldn't mind taking a look at your strategy either... I'm trying to get some things starting in the Salvage arena. I don't mind looking at all the various places for info, but it would be great to have something more condensed for the people in my LS who don't have time to lurk forums, research, etc.

[Daiiawn]

Ive just started doing runs with a group of friends from a social, the way we are working things, is to first gather some 15s (every armor set has 3/5 15s that are 100% drop off their respective nms).

For easing us in, we have gone for the 15s in zhy, the zones has guaranteed cell drops, so its a good place to start with if most your group are new.

The 100% 15 drops in this zone come off 2 nms (3 if you include the card nm for thf body) that are pretty easy (even with a new group) to pop, as long as your numbers arnt stupidly huge.

Were nearly finished with this zone and will soon have everyone all the 15s it has to offer them. Once this is done we are going to move on to bhuf remnants and spam ramparts for as long as it takes to get us some 35.

Finally once we have some people with 15s and the matching 35s we are going to work on the silver sea boss in the hopes of getting some completed.

This has worked out well for us, because by targetting nms with 100% drops to start, people feel like there making progress from the start. Time will tell how people feel once we hit the slow drop rates of the 35s but we will see ^^.

Imo 8 people would be a ideal number to start with, monks are very useful, but in terms of doing the 15 / 35 farming we have had sucess with a war/nin tank. We generally always have a rdm with us, and occasionally a whm, though i find a rdm can more than handle things.

[thorjones]

Don't try arrapago for your first zone. The NM drops and the cell drops are awful for new groups. If you try Bhaflau don't try LBC as your first boss. He his the hardest one of the four to win and get the strategy down. If you start with a zone start with Bhaflua ramparts farm. The first Boss we won was LAC in SSR, I would suggest trying him first.

When you first go after bosses try and only do the boss to allow yourself maximum time. What happened with my group is we tried to do too much and kept timing out on bosses. Farming for 35s, not getting them, then timing out on the boss= low morale for the group. So we just started targeting just the bosses. Now we target bosses every run since those are really the only random drops. You can farm any zone with just about any normal setup but it takes specific jobs to take down the bosses.

Best of luck to you and read up and know everything about the zone. Also get a timer that you can look at while you do the run so you know exactly how much time is left. Helped me with my runs. We're at 8 upgrades with about 7 more 2/3 people.

[cdgreg]

Don't try arrapago for your first zone. The NM drops and the cell drops are awful for new groups. If you try Bhaflau don't try LBC as your first boss. He his the hardest one of the four to win and get the strategy down. If you start with a zone start with Bhaflua ramparts farm. The first Boss we won was LAC in SSR, I would suggest trying him first.

After everything I said I don't necessarily disagree with his advice even though it contradicts what I decided upon. Our demand for morrigans/ares body (and skadi feet) was/is so great I really had no other choice. Plus I'd beaten LBC before, knew how easy it is with a prepared team, and went into the fight under the mindset that if we can beat this we can beat any mega boss so I used that as motivation for other members. It all stems down to what your members want, 6 out of our 9-10 members had Ares or Morrigan body 1st priority, and the other 3 or 4 had it in their top 3 so I planned around that.

Edit: Vedder I PM'd you the strategy.

[Pninja]

What zones and what setups to start with is pretty much dependant upon your group dynamics. In general, I'd recommend NOT starting with arrapago, as was mentioned by a couple ppl. It truly is a morale breaker, regardless of how many people need 35 bodies from there. No gear, not everyone can even perform their jobs initially, a lot of sneaking around, and a lot of no drops. You'll eventually have to add it in the mix quite a bit, but for morale purposes, it's not a good zone. Perhaps try Zhayolm like was mentioned, because strategy is simple and gear is plentiful. You just may not yield extremely useful stuff at first, since most gear is based on specific poroggo madame path choices. Strategies for achieving all salvage objectives are pretty clear cut between wiki info and BG discussions. Just figure out how to tailor it to your group.

The group I help lead started off with Bhaflau a couple weeks after the treasure box patch, and we go with 10-12 people twice a week. We spammed the hell out of that zone, and people seemed to be content with getting decently geared, getting to fight actual "objective popped" NMs, and we were fortunate enough to get a few NM drops from bees and chigoes fairly early on (guess the same could be said about QQs in arrapago tho with drops) as well as plentiful lv15 armor on NQ mobs and gears. Our stance on fighting NM chariots was that if we could form a group that became skilled enough to defeat LBC on a consistent basis, then the rest of the chariots would be not a big deal for us at all. That assumption was on the mark.

Key general things to keep your Salvage group prosperous and happy, imo, as a co-leader of a salvage group and as an HNM LS leader:
- Have a defined leader and be leader-like, even if you're not exactly sure what the next objective is. Wishy-washy leaders for instanced stuff like salvage kills groups.
- Have a plan. We have a website, we track people's gear they obtain, have loot policies with primary/secondary choices, have strategies for each zone posted, have who needs what and where it drops from in each zone, so you can easily look at the "silver seas list" and see all the stuff we've gotten and need for our lotters, etc. etc.
- Try to diversify your zones. People like diversity in zones and also like effort put in to trying to get a variety of gear (for themselves lol). If you keep spamming QQs all the time, people will get bored.
- Make sure you spam items needed or have a very prepared group. Our group is members for our LS, so while we're gathering we keep spamming on LS "don't forget permit, sanction, hi-pots, rr, etc. etc." People still forget lol.
- Call cells decisively. Biggest timesink of salvage is calling and passing cells. Get in a groove and call them out, and don't really tolerate bickering about it. Cause people will bicker. Pick who gets cells to the best of your ability, and change your strategy up on future runs if need be or situations/jobs change.

Actually...the list above sounds like dynamis lol. But you'd be surprised at how effective doing these simple things can be.

[Angelsin]

Lots of Good Stuff

I wouldn't mind taking a look at your strategy either... I'm trying to get some things starting in the Salvage arena. I don't mind looking at all the various places for info, but it would be great to have something more condensed for the people in my LS who don't have time to lurk forums, research, etc.

Seconded and love to see cdgreguh's strategy too. I also find myself in the same place as cdgreguh. Lots of Ares/Morrigan's pieces wanted but can't do 99999 runs of Arrapago but I've organized extra runs for the people in this category to compensate for the lack of drops aside from the main scheduled runs.

[bzs]

Whoever leads, must be well-respected among your members and members must see that they are capable to bring the group to the end
I seen members leave after a week of no-drops and give up but the ones who respect and believe in the leader, will not give up and endure the hardships to come as a group
same applies to co-leaders
The leaders do the research, know all the info and can lead thru the zones, you don't need your members to learn the zones themselves
sure, its ideal for everyone to learn, right? but do you honestly think they're all going to read?
you're the leader, direct your group, don't let your group direct the leader
I know the more efficient groups, everyones so familiar with the zones and know exactly what to do but as noobs and first starters, don't waste your members time
you as the leader should acknowledge yourself about everything involved in salvage because if they throw any questions at you, they will feel like you know exactly what you're doing if you can respond resourcefully instead of "dunno"

it takes time, first few weeks are rough as people are getting used to the concept of salvage
we start going twice a week with roster of 8, now we have a roster of 25 after 3 months and go every day
of course I won't bring more than 12 in a run but normally people aren't all on all the same time or we would split up on farming zones

my group consist of friends of friends from HNM shells to social shells
I was going to grab people from the HNM LS Im in to join salvage initially but they all thought it was a waste of time, of course now they seen how the group has progressed, they all want in now, typical :/

[Ferien]

Be prepared to be an asshole when the situation calls for it. As with anything, there will be people who bitch, be it about cells, strategy, paths, etc. As a leader, you need to control and quell that. Until your members have gotten into the groove of things, you will need to call cells and remind people constantly to pass/lot, or else it just won't happen. You will also need to give very specific directions for certain things at the beginning. Things like "train these to the portal," "don't use magic on these," or even "pass cells that aren't yours" which may seem routine for people who've done the zones over and over again will need to be explicitly stated to new members, and don't be afraid to be a nuisance about it, because while it can get irritating, it's for the better and when you start to be successful with it, your members will thank you for it.

As for zones and such, my group started with Bhaflau and SSR and gave LBC a shot our first few times. Of all the zones, they're probably the most generous with cell drops, and nothing is more frustrating than being in Arrapago and feeling like you're dead weight for the first floor. In Bhaflau, everyone will have nearly everything but stats unlocked by the first floor, and the odd 15 drop is nice, even though they'll be freelot within a few runs. It's very good for morale, and very good for training people to deal with cells, since it's also very forgiving if someone fucks up and grabs a cell they shouldn't (unlike Arrapago or Zhayolm, where if someone grabs the wrong cell it can potentially fuck a run entirely). SSR is a little bit worse than Bhaflau with regards to cells, but popping NMs is very straightforward versus the Bhaflau Ramparts bullshit (I swear, Gate Widow doesn't exist) and the guaranteed 15 off of most of them will make first-timers happy. Just don't start off with Arrapago. While the drops are nice and everyone in your group may want them, it's a serious morale killer for a new group.

Finally, though I used to be staunchly against it, having a larger full group isn't too bad. When we first started our LS, we were hardcore about keeping it small (wanted to keep the entire LS below 10 people). Unfortunately, between people's schedules, people quitting, or people simply not being around when we decide to do a spur-of-the-moment run, we'd end up sometimes going in with 5, someone dual-boxing, never having a THF, and generally with a sub-optimal setup. We've lately opened up the ranks a bit more, and can pretty consistently now get a solid group of 6-8 with a setup good enough to do anything but bosses (and even at that, we can pull off a boss with our 8-man crew with a bit of job shuffling). It also gives us the option of farming two zones at once, or if we really want to, pummeling a single zone on the way to a boss.

Everything else people have said is right on the money. Just keep at it and the good members in your group will get better and the bad ones will be replaced.

[Nynaeve]

I'd appreciate a PM of your information as well cdgreguh. I'm slowly working out Salvage strats for my LS. There is a ton of excellent information out there, particularly on these forums but I'm finding it hard to get it all organized right now and really understand where to start.

[fantasticdan]

Is that who I think it is?...

[Vedder]

Is that who I think it is?...

There's like a ton of them across all servers... and I think the one you are thinking of likes to Paralyze WS on her WHM.

[Kobus]

Good luck on Salvage, it's an adventure gathering people and choosing who lots.

But this is how my LS does it:

Top 3 Items you want.
Runs based on what drops where and/or # of pieces already in possession.

This works pretty well.

We also try to keep the numbers low, usually no more than 12 go in. The more people, the longer to navigate through and the more bickering/waiting for cells.

Usually it's not policy to try and get everyone a cell. Mnk/Nin are our tanks, they get dibs on every equip/armor cell first (besides ranged for puller/bards).

Magic goes to Rdm first, so does ability. Then magic to either brd or whm next. Filtering down to Blm then our main Mnk/Nin. After that, free reign. Any Body Boost or stuff goes to tanks. Also, make sure at least one mnk gets job ability so they can 2hr. Thief is a good person to get JA too, good chance you'll want a sac pull or steal in some zones.

Rest of equip goes as needed.

Most runs we try and hit one main NM and the final Chariot. If the Chariot isn't really useful, we go for as many lower NM's as possible. Speedy kills (and multiple mobs at a time 1mob/monk) make us go pretty fast through the floors. It's also important for everyone to bring meds from assaults, silent/invis, and a reraise item.

With this setup and only going Salvage for about a month or two, we've gotten 2 Usu legs, 1 Skadi Feet, and multiple people are 2/3 on pretty good armor.

If you want, I'd say try to take out as many lower NM's as you can before you try and get to a boss, just to work out who gets what gear and whatnot. Then maybe plan a run to try the boss as a dry run. Let people know it's testing the waters to see how long your group can take.

Salvage is pretty fun, but not seeing drops can get pretty discouraging.

Good luck again on your shell.

[Bakthi]

Magic goes to Rdm first, so does ability. Then magic to either brd or whm next. Filtering down to Blm then our main Mnk/Nin. After that, free reign. Any Body Boost or stuff goes to tanks. Also, make sure at least one mnk gets job ability so they can 2hr. Thief is a good person to get JA too, good chance you'll want a sac pull or steal in some zones.

Personally, I can't imagine not giving JAs to the 2-3 best DDs first (usually 2 MNKs and a WAR or something) so that they can WS and kill things much more quickly.

[Kobus]

hmm, good point. i guess the mnks and rdm are first for JA. i'm usually bard, so i'm last to get anything but ranged (2nd bard usually if i'm brd) so don't really notice when people get stuff.

just going off memories since i've been a bit busy lately to go to salvage ; ;