New Famitsu Scan

[blister1]

but yeah, it's pretty easy to say this event will be a clone of besieged with maybe a few twists. i'm with whoever said about losing the AC when this shit is released lol

This actually hadn't crossed my mind on how it would affect besieged. Anything usually over 400 people tends to be a horrible clusterfuck of lag, could work out well in the off-chance they both take place at the same time.

[Almalexia]

I am starting to imagine this to be what Besieged should have been.

Victory in Besieged has maintained only one advantage: the power of the Astral Candescence. This reward for successful defense has never changed and has never been improved even as the beastmen forces grow stronger and stronger to take the AC for themselves. If the beastmen seize the AC, they get one static boost over their ranks and that's all. The beastmen don't even do anything with the AC; it's just a lost bonus to us rather than an utter disaster as the Empire claims.

This expansion presents an opportunity for us to experience a real struggle for power that actually has negative consequences. Yeah, I said it. Negative consequences. I wanted the undead take over Nashmau if they were allowed to hold the AC too long. I wanted to see the trolls making roadblocks in the middle of Wajaom. I wanted to see Mamools snatching Greater Colibri and Wivres from EXP PTs on Tandjana. The AC is lauded as this great thing and yet its disappearance is so minor in the scope of the game.

Now we're stepping into a war with the muh fuggin' Shadow Lord and I want to see some serious shit go down if we interlopers allow the enemy to get the upper hand. Likewise, we should see some significant benefits if we are constantly successful.

Also, Salvage is the greatest thing since Limbus. If SE somehow tops Salvage, I will be brought to my knees and I will weep tears of joy.

[Kyupi/Kij]

I didn't see this earlier in the thread, so I figured I'd point this out. Semantics, but the article makes use of the phrase "limited warfare" (???), suggesting to me that it's not designed to be the massive, dragged out clusterfuck that Besieged is. (Ugh.)

Of course, they might just be saying it that way to signify an entire spectrum of other things, or just for the hell of it. Those tricky, tricky Japanese.

[Uzor]

The only drop rates I feel need boosts in Salvage are silversea NMs.

(and this would explain why my group is 0/70 when lots of others are getting drops I think; we've been focusing on SSR drops) SSR is definitely the worst rate then?

Yes, SSR has the worst drop rate of them all. Your lone encounter of suck won't deny that multiple groups have gotten plenty from all other zones and bare minimums from SSR. People going 1/30+ on one NM alone, isn't uncommon. In fact that's how we are on a few of those NMs, the ones who we have seen drop anything have dropped it once per 20 kills.

Been doing salvage since it started, killed these NMs hundreds of times, seen more non drop over drop to safely say what I say.


Bhaf highest 35 rate, Zhay|Arra share second, SSR way down the toilet.

I'd have to disagree <.<; we're 3/12 on Powderkeg, and 2/16 on GG3. Although we're 1/31 on Hammerblow, so Iunno... Either way, our total drop rate in every zone is 7,8% in Bhaflau, 6,3% in Silver Sea, 5,8% in Arrapago, and 66,7% in Zhayolm... heh, with a total drop rate of 8,3%. While yes, Silver Sea is low, I wouldn't say Bhaflau is much better, due to its random NM's...

[Zosi]

The Salvage/Dynamis debate is missing one important thing, a comparison of EFFORT. It doesn't make ANY sense to compare a 6-12 person Salvage run with a 20-40 person Dynamis run and say that Salvage has such an infinitesimally small drop rate compared to Dynamis. Here's some statistics from my Dynamis and Salvage groups, to take a look at how a comparison taking manpower/effort into account would look like. I'll note that I'm really not sure right now exactly how this will turn out, so let's see.

My Dynamis LS celebrated it's 200th run a few months ago, and we posted some statistics from our DKP records to show trends. After 200 runs, we had 852 pieces of AF2 and an average attendance of 40 members. Our average run time (assuming full extensions in each zone) worked out to be 3 hours nearly exactly. That means we spent 120 man-hours per run on each of 200 runs to get 852 pieces of AF2. That works out to 28.16 man-hours per piece, on average.

My Salvage group has done 61 runs since we started tracking them on DKP, with an average attendance of 11 people. We've gotten a total of 22 35s, but one of them was from the pre-DKP era, so we'll trash it. Each run is 100 minutes (1.67 hours) long, so each run is approximately 18.37 man-hours. 61 runs means 1120 man-hours, divided by 21 pieces is 50.935 man-hours per piece, slightly over 1.8 times the effort required for your average piece of Dynamis AF2.

The comparison still isn't really very good, because Salvage loot has more variables than Dynamis loot. If something drops in Dynamis, it generally doesn't have to be upgraded or have anything else done in order to be usable, it's just instantly ready. Salvage takes 35s, 25s and 15s (and cards, for bodies), all of which present different obstacles to overcome to get. It also doesn't touch on how many of the pieces in either event were the *right* pieces that we wanted to drop, which is mostly a concern when it comes to city Dynamis runs (lolfreelotAF2) or 25 and 15s in Salvage. A true comparison is probably impossible, but I think that my calculations above are close enough to say that Salvage is less rewarding than Dynamis, but not nearly as badly as some people on this thread have claimed.

[Lordender]

I'd have to disagree <.<; we're 3/12 on Powderkeg, and 2/16 on GG3. Although we're 1/31 on Hammerblow, so Iunno... Either way, our total drop rate in every zone is 7,8% in Bhaflau, 6,3% in Silver Sea, 5,8% in Arrapago, and 66,7% in Zhayolm... heh, with a total drop rate of 8,3%. While yes, Silver Sea is low, I wouldn't say Bhaflau is much better, due to its random NM's...

you are extremely lucky, i've done around 35 runs of this place and havent seen anything from hammerblow or powderkeg >.> Many people seem to go 0/70+ on both.

[Zilong]

The only drop rates I feel need boosts in Salvage are silversea NMs.

Now about events in games not being tweaked to perfection apon implementation : duh. You can only do so much testing as a developer before you have to send it out to the masses and then wait for feedback. Complaining that something's not perfect on the first time in FFXI is quite silly, everything in this game follows the pattern.

I fully understand this issue, yet what happened when they first implemented besieged, einherjar (and probably still an issue now), sea farming, and to a lesser extend salvage (i still remember flying out of arra because no magic dropped within the first 8 or so lamia) was something that could have been avoided by actually playtesting the events.

I wasn't even arguing that this event will be shit in the end, I'm just saying don't expect too much upon release, since SE's track record on getting something right or even bearable the first time around is abysmal.

I wanted to see Mamools snatching Greater Colibri and Wivres from EXP PTs on Tandjana.

If that means more mamools in tandjana, I honestly can't see why that'd be a bad thing >_>

Also, Salvage is the greatest thing since Limbus. If SE somehow tops Salvage, I will be brought to my knees and I will weep tears of joy.

Ah, the usukane armor set, would you like to have it restored to its former glorious shape for only 12 Yagudo's Tama-Hagane and 12 Divine Lumber along with the fee of 10 Ranperre Goldpiece
Here's what the restored pieces would look like: *insert usukane+1 here*

[Uzor]

Ah, the usukane armor set, would you like to have it restored to its former glorious shape for only 12 Yagudo's Tama-Hagane and 12 Divine Lumber along with the fee of 10 Ranperre Goldpiece
Here's what the restored pieces would look like: *insert usukane+1 here*

*adds +1 to each of the stats except Haste*

[Amele]

I'd have to disagree <.<; we're 3/12 on Powderkeg, and 2/16 on GG3. Although we're 1/31 on Hammerblow, so Iunno... Either way, our total drop rate in every zone is 7,8% in Bhaflau, 6,3% in Silver Sea, 5,8% in Arrapago, and 66,7% in Zhayolm... heh, with a total drop rate of 8,3%. While yes, Silver Sea is low, I wouldn't say Bhaflau is much better, due to its random NM's...

you are extremely lucky, i've done around 35 runs of this place and havent seen anything from hammerblow or powderkeg >.> Many people seem to go 0/70+ on both.

yeah. we do hammerblow every run and powderkeg 2/3 (others are dekka or boss) and no drops. I haven't been tracking individual nm's though - I should probably start.

[Uzor]

We have 278 total NM's killed with 23 drops, so almost 10% drop rate total, Although that's only since I started keeping track of every NM killed and drops per NM. When we first started, we barely got any drops at all. Now we get 1-3 35's every month. We always have 1 THF with TH4, though. I'm sure we could speed it up a bit and get more 35's if we split up in stead of going as a group, since we'd have enough for at least 1 MNK and a THF in each group, but the other members don't want to, so meh.

Maybe it sees our IP's aren't NA and assumes we're JP, I dunno =/ we've been lucky on drops lately <.<; You can see why I love Salvage and dislike Dynamis. Although maybe that's not something I shouldn't say, being the leader of both <.<;

[Plow]

A true comparison is probably impossible, but I think that my calculations above are close enough to say that Salvage is less rewarding than Dynamis, but not nearly as badly as some people on this thread have claimed.

It becomes a hell of a lot more rewarding when you consider the quality of salvage drops vs af2 pieces.

[Kyreth]

Just an added note thanks to the "Visiting Mog House" thread.

New Combat Features - An all-new Campaign system will allow players to take part in large-scale battles and explore new special dungeons.

From the same page, http://www.play.com/Games/Xbox360/4-...s/Product.html.

So field battles AND new dungeons for this? I'm hoping this means we get to hit beastmen strongholds in a reverse-Besieged as well as defending. Maybe the whole "Neo Crystal War" thing is a testbed for the expansion event?

[BRP]

When Assault was first announced, the average opinion was that it was Besieged in reverse. Turned out to be unrelated almost completely, but perhaps things this time around things will work that way?

[Zosi]

A true comparison is probably impossible, but I think that my calculations above are close enough to say that Salvage is less rewarding than Dynamis, but not nearly as badly as some people on this thread have claimed.

It becomes a hell of a lot more rewarding when you consider the quality of salvage drops vs af2 pieces.

I'd agree with that completely, but I should've phrased it as about having higher loot potential or something. What I meant was a comparison of drop rates and the chances of getting something, not a subjective assessment of which is more worthwhile to do.

[Thistle]

I am starting to imagine this to be what Besieged should have been.

Victory in Besieged has maintained only one advantage: the power of the Astral Candescence. This reward for successful defense has never changed and has never been improved even as the beastmen forces grow stronger and stronger to take the AC for themselves. If the beastmen seize the AC, they get one static boost over their ranks and that's all. The beastmen don't even do anything with the AC; it's just a lost bonus to us rather than an utter disaster as the Empire claims.

This expansion presents an opportunity for us to experience a real struggle for power that actually has negative consequences. Yeah, I said it. Negative consequences. I wanted the undead take over Nashmau if they were allowed to hold the AC too long. I wanted to see the trolls making roadblocks in the middle of Wajaom. I wanted to see Mamools snatching Greater Colibri and Wivres from EXP PTs on Tandjana. The AC is lauded as this great thing and yet its disappearance is so minor in the scope of the game.

Now we're stepping into a war with the muh fuggin' Shadow Lord and I want to see some serious shit go down if we interlopers allow the enemy to get the upper hand. Likewise, we should see some significant benefits if we are constantly successful.

I love you. I'd totally vote for this.

[BRP]

I am starting to imagine this to be what Besieged should have been.

Victory in Besieged has maintained only one advantage: the power of the Astral Candescence. This reward for successful defense has never changed and has never been improved even as the beastmen forces grow stronger and stronger to take the AC for themselves. If the beastmen seize the AC, they get one static boost over their ranks and that's all. The beastmen don't even do anything with the AC; it's just a lost bonus to us rather than an utter disaster as the Empire claims.

This expansion presents an opportunity for us to experience a real struggle for power that actually has negative consequences. Yeah, I said it. Negative consequences. I wanted the undead take over Nashmau if they were allowed to hold the AC too long. I wanted to see the trolls making roadblocks in the middle of Wajaom. I wanted to see Mamools snatching Greater Colibri and Wivres from EXP PTs on Tandjana. The AC is lauded as this great thing and yet its disappearance is so minor in the scope of the game.

Now we're stepping into a war with the muh fuggin' Shadow Lord and I want to see some serious shit go down if we interlopers allow the enemy to get the upper hand. Likewise, we should see some significant benefits if we are constantly successful.

I love you. I'd totally vote for this.

I too would find it interesting, but then I realize how much bawwwwww there would be. People complain about not being able warp to staging points to a great degree... my mind doesn't want to imagine...

[Epical]

Almalexia is a bright person... and brings up a good point.

[Eaglestrike]

I am starting to imagine this to be what Besieged should have been.

Victory in Besieged has maintained only one advantage: the power of the Astral Candescence. This reward for successful defense has never changed and has never been improved even as the beastmen forces grow stronger and stronger to take the AC for themselves. If the beastmen seize the AC, they get one static boost over their ranks and that's all. The beastmen don't even do anything with the AC; it's just a lost bonus to us rather than an utter disaster as the Empire claims.

This expansion presents an opportunity for us to experience a real struggle for power that actually has negative consequences. Yeah, I said it. Negative consequences. I wanted the undead take over Nashmau if they were allowed to hold the AC too long. I wanted to see the trolls making roadblocks in the middle of Wajaom. I wanted to see Mamools snatching Greater Colibri and Wivres from EXP PTs on Tandjana. The AC is lauded as this great thing and yet its disappearance is so minor in the scope of the game.

Now we're stepping into a war with the muh fuggin' Shadow Lord and I want to see some serious shit go down if we interlopers allow the enemy to get the upper hand. Likewise, we should see some significant benefits if we are constantly successful.

I love you. I'd totally vote for this.

I too would find it interesting, but then I realize how much bawwwwww there would be. People complain about not being able warp to staging points to a great degree... my mind doesn't want to imagine...

I think this is the reason why Besieged wasn't something like this. I don't know if any NA's on Shiva have ever returned the AC, always comes back during JP time it seems. A lot of people wouldn't view these things as a challenge, just torture and they'd cry over it. I'd love to have these things in the game though.

[Grandcross]

Sounds like it has the potential to be cool, i just hope it doesn't take too long to do. (my biggest beef with FFXI)

[Max™]

Looking more and more like it will be on the scale of a Garrison run, 3-18 people, something like assault to the nature of it, hopefully all our nifty "in assault" items will work there too.

Sign up with an NPC at the fort, get tagged somehow with the assault status, and go do your things, I can see it being a mix of assault and besieged the more I think about it.

Like, the mobs in assault are generally just farting around, imagine showing up to an assault late where they were kicking the door to the staging point down and having to fight them off.

Add in some new gears that can be bought with whatever points you earn doing it, ranks for being successful in the defense/offense aspects of it.

A more fluid type of assault, with besieged inspirations, and scaled so that a single competent party can do their part, even have multiple groups, all tagged, but different parties, working seperately to fight them back.

I could see some very very cool ways for this to work out.