Usukane Hizayoroi

[Kittyn]

One of the inequalities at the beinning is false & it's this one:

1) 10d > 5s+10a

I'm actually arguing 5s+10a > 10d. Your math looks good though & think if you redo it, we can all agree that Usu Pants > Kitty Pants for WS if you agree with

2) 12s > 22a
3) 22a > 6s+6d

Just for the record 2 and 3 are *usually* true, but not under all conditions. For example, 3 is false once pDIF is high enough. 2 is false when fSTR is capped (or close to) and pDIF is not.

However, I'm not going to nitpick that as my response to your argument, just saying in general.

Right, but you're assigning arbitrary numbers "for the sake of comparison" and overlooking the reason why 12 STR vs. 22 Att vs. 6 STR/DEX is in a different league than 5STR/DEX, 10 Att vs. 15 DEX.

I'm assigning numbers that you gave me from your quotes that are true by mathematical assumption. And judging by Aurik's math after a minor correction, Usu pants > Kitty pants for WS.

The one thing I should have done a better job of clarifying is agreeing that, under the singular condition that the 5th point of STR on Hizayaroi works out such that you get a second point of fSTR as a result of equipping them, they can result in more per-hit damage. Also I should probably clarify that my reasoning is based on the generally accepted WS Damage = ((D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP * Crit)*pDIF formula.

That being said, you still haven't commented on the crit rate bit, which is something you really shouldn't be overlooking on a crit-based WS where testing (by Studio Gobli) indicates that said crits do double damage. It's hard to quantify exactly how much Haidate increase one's crit rate, however at least for myself, they put me either on the borderline of or well into the 110+ DEX range where crit rate begins to show a nice upswing depending on WS set and food.

Even if Haidate add only 1% improved chance to crit, that's a bit more than an extra 4.6 crits per 25 WSs (assuming /WAR and Brutal), or an extra 4.6*2*WD*pDIF per 25 WSs, which, even assuming relatively conservative values for fSTR and pDIF, blows away the extra damage per-hit of Hizayaroi (to the tune of about 200 vs about 75 damage with Senj/Perdu (or Unji), 6 fSTR (with Haidate on), 1.0 pDIF), which 10 Att can certainly not make up through increased pDIF. I'm making assumptions here on crit rate, but the sheer magnitude of difference gives me a leg to stand on, I think, even if I do end up being optimistic on the crit rate increase Haidate provide.

No argument over how dex helps WS. We're discussing gear choices. However explain why you would go with Koga Tekko > Nin Tekko +1 if "you're borderline of or well into the 110+ DEX range where crit rate begins to show a nice upswing depending on WS set and food."

Anyways since you refuse to look at my math, I'll play with yours. Punch in the same numbers for Nin Tekko +1 & Bandomusha Kote in your 3rd paragrah and show this:

22a > 6s+6d is *usually* true, but not under all conditions & is false once pDIF is high enough.

[Amastacia]

I must admit I made a slight mistake in my previous post, and after playing with the math, Haidate still win (given the same pulled-from-ass numbers and crit rate assumptions), but by a smaller margin (only about 90 damage, given perfect accuracy with both sets of pants on, which won't actually happen, but Acc doesn't favor Usukane anyway).

That being said, it would indeed appear that NIN Tekko +1 outperform B. Kote if my assumption about crit rate is valid. I doubt I will have the time given time constraints placed upon me by work, but if I do, I would like to run a test on consistent-level mobs to see how parsed in-game results of Tekko vs. Kote match up with the numbers on paper, which I'd gladly re-run should another pair of 35 Usukane pants drop while I'm in zone.

At least from an on-paper perspective, it appears that I have a couple gear tweaks to make, which is fine, I don't mind being wrong so long as I learn something and end up better in the long run.

[Kittyn]

I must admit I made a slight mistake in my previous post, and after playing with the math, Haidate still win (given the same pulled-from-ass numbers and crit rate assumptions), but by a smaller margin (only about 90 damage, given perfect accuracy with both sets of pants on, which won't actually happen, but Acc doesn't favor Usukane anyway).

That being said, it would indeed appear that NIN Tekko +1 outperform B. Kote if my assumption about crit rate is valid. I doubt I will have the time given time constraints placed upon me by work, but if I do, I would like to run a test on consistent-level mobs to see how parsed in-game results of Tekko vs. Kote match up with the numbers on paper, which I'd gladly re-run should another pair of 35 Usukane pants drop while I'm in zone.

At least from an on-paper perspective, it appears that I have a couple gear tweaks to make, which is fine, I don't mind being wrong so long as I learn something and end up better in the long run.

Your last quote is also what I aim for too. Good luck with your tests and hope you have time for them in the future. I actually have the 35 Usukane pants but my group is having problems getting the 25.